brightfame52
Well-known member
Slander and blasphemy
An Article on free will
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
brightfame52
Well-known member
Adam and Eve was to. Before the world was created, God purposed Adam to sin since Christ was already confirmed as the Lamb slain from the foundation for sin Rev 13:8
8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
So Adam must disobey Gods will of command not to eat of that tree, in accordance with what Christ was already purposed to do.
civic
Well-known member
of hardening his own heart- yep
then God hardened it and made it permanent. yep
this is exactly what Romans 1 TEACHES how one becomes a reprobate like pharoah.
hope this helps !!!
civic
Well-known member
blasphemy and slander against Christ.
Jeremiah 7:31
They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Hinnom so they could burn their sons and daughters in the fire--something I never commanded, nor did it even enter My mind.
Jeremiah 19:5
They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal—something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind.
Jeremiah 32:35
They have built the high places of Baal in the Valley of Hinnom to make their sons and daughters pass through the fire to Molech--something I never commanded them, nor had it ever entered My mind, that they should commit such an abomination and cause Judah to sin
James 1:13-14- Let no man, when he is tempted, say that he is tempted by God. For God is not a tempter of evils, and he tempteth no man. But each one is tempted when by his own evil desires he is lured away and enticed.
Matthew 4:7- Jesus replied, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'
hope this helps !!!
Your theology makes God a God of deception
Very few if any Christians will admit their theology is perfect and there are no errors in it
If God through exhaustive Devine determinism determines everything then God determined his children should be deceived
That would make God a God of deception
If however one holds God is not a God of deception
Then God did not determine his children be deceived
Therefore exhaustive divine determination is false
Tim Straton
Not as a child of God
Johann
Well-known member
This is error-
For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your ancestors, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake. Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God.
The key point in these verses is that Jesus Christ was chosen by God before the creation of the world and was revealed in our time for our salvation.
However, nowhere in these verses does it suggest that God willed sin for the purpose of having a savior.
Instead, the focus is on God's plan to provide redemption through Jesus Christ despite humanity being enslaved to sin.
Now, regarding the use of Hebrew and Greek, neither language contains the phrase "God willed sin" within the context of these verses.
In fact, both languages do not support the idea that God willed sin or caused sin to exist.
Rather, they emphasize God's sovereignty over His creation and His desire to restore what has been broken due to human rebellion.
In conclusion, the statement "God willed sin because He willed the Saviour for sin before the world began," while not explicitly found in the Bible, contradicts the overall theme of scriptures, which portray God as holy and righteous, desiring to save us from sin rather than causing it. Therefore, this statement cannot be supported using the given passages or the original languages of the Bible.
J.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Of God hardening his heart, so he cant do anything else but conform himself to Gods hardening. It started with God hardening his heart Ex 4:21
21 And the Lord said to Moses, “When you go back to Egypt, see that you do all those wonders before Pharaoh which I have put in your hand. But I will harden his heart, so that he will not let the people go.
When pharoah harden his own heart, it was what God said Ex 7:13
And Pharaoh’s heart grew hard, and he did not heed them, as the Lord had said.
Ex 8:15
But when Pharaoh saw that there was relief, he hardened his heart and did not heed them, as the Lord had said.
See the Kings heart is in the hand of God, God controls it, turns according to His will Prov 21:1
The king’s heart is in the hand of the Lord,
Like the [a]rivers of water;
He turns it wherever He wishes.
May God give you wisdom
brightfame52
Well-known member
No its not. Christ was set up appointed to die for sin before Adam was created 1 Pet 1:20
20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was [h]manifest in these last times for you
brightfame52
Well-known member
More slander and blasphemy
brightfame52
Well-known member
Sure He willed sin because He had willed, purposed Christ would die for sin, this was before the Creation of the world. This world was Created to fulfill the Eternal Purpose of Christ Eph 3:11
11 according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord,
Johann
Well-known member
Your argument appears to build upon the concept of God's eternal purpose and the redemptive work of Christ. While the initial statement still implies that God willed sin, the subsequent reasoning attempts to link it back to the broader context of Ephesians 3:11.Ephesians 3:11 states, "according to the eternal purpose which he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord."
This verse does not explicitly state that God willed sin. Instead, it highlights the eternal purpose of God, which includes the redemption of humanity through Christ.-In no way, shape or form did God WILLED sin- Rather, it underscores the eternal nature of God's plan to bring about redemption through Christ.
The verse speaks of God's accomplishment of His eternal purpose, not the cause of sin.
Furthermore, even when considering the broader context of the Bible, including Old Testament prophecies and New Testament revelations, there remains no explicit evidence supporting the notion that God willed sin for the purpose of providing a savior. I
nstead, the Bible consistently presents God as just and loving, seeking to reconcile humanity to Himself through the sacrifice of Christ.Therefore, based on the given texts and the original languages of the Bible, the statement "God willed sin because He willed the Saviour for sin before the world began" remains unsupported.
Are you going to be adamant-dogmatic-or confess it is not what you meant-an wrong interpretation from the text on your end?
No one said he was.
brightfame52
Well-known member
@Johann
It is. This world was Created for Christs Redemptive Work Col 1:14-18
14 in whom we have redemption [d]through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or [e]principalities or [f]powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.
This World wasnt Created for Adam, but for Christ and His Redemptive purpose
It is. This world was Created for Christs Redemptive Work Col 1:14-18
14 in whom we have redemption [d]through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or [e]principalities or [f]powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.
This World wasnt Created for Adam, but for Christ and His Redemptive purpose
Johann
Well-known member
Then why this erroneous statement?
Sure He willed sin because He had willed, purposed Christ would die for sin, this was before the Creation of the world.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Its not error to me. It agrees perfectly
The very first mention of Pharaoh's heart and its hardening it is God doing the hardening. Also, that does not explain why God would command Pharaoh to let His people go yet harden his heart so he would not.
Johann
Well-known member
Here is an exegetical response that incorporates pertinent scriptures:
God's Sovereignty Over Sin:
Isaiah 45:7 states, "I form light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the LORD, do all these things." This verse illustrates God's sovereign control over all aspects of creation, including sin.
God's Purposeful Redemption:
Romans 8:28-29 declares, "We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him, who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son..." This passage confirms that God has a plan for redemption, even when dealing with sin.
Christ's Sacrificial Death:
John 3:16-17 says, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him." This passage underscores Christ's sacrificial death as part of God's redemptive plan.
God's Foreknowledge of Sin:
1 Peter 1:18-20 explains, "You know that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your ancestors, not with perishable things like silver or gold, but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without defect or blemish. He was destined before the foundation of the world, but was revealed at the end of the ages for your sake."
This passage indicates that God's redemptive plan was established prior to creation.
While YOUR statement touches on the broad themes of God's sovereignty and redemptive purposes, it is essential to remain grounded in the biblical text itself to ensure accurate and responsible exegesis. By integrating relevant scriptures, we can develop a coherent and well-rounded understanding of God's dealings with sin and redemption.
Agree?
J.
civic
Well-known member
There are 7 hardening’s between exodus 7-9. They begin with him hardening his own heart.
hope this helps !!!
brightfame52
Well-known member
Okay, yet I stick with my explanation in post 454
