An Article on free will

[Johann]

Hello TomL,

Please answer the following question. I have only asked one question to you, but it has gone unanswered, so it's repeated from previously for your convenience, below.



Do you think you are a friend of Jesus, TomL?

Jesus says "you" with reference to His friends as recorded in John 15:14-19, and Jesus says "you" with reference to His exclusively chosen ones as recorded in John 15:14-19.

The blessing by Jesus to the "you" as recorded in John 15:14-19 is to all believers in all time.

​

You are My friends if you do what I command you. No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you. This I command you, that you love one another. If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you​

(John 15:14-19, KJV, NASB1995, and YLT)​

​

All glory to God! All praise to the Bread of Life! God alone does all to save the children of God from the wrath of God, and man, who does absolutely nothing to contribute, is the blessed recipient of God’s mercy and God's grace for man's salvation.

Dangerous ground you are walking on-pride-you are saved-he is not, according to you.
J

 

[Kermos]

@Kermos



Thats absolutely right The Saints of old knew this Job 23:13-14

13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.

14 For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.

Praise God! It was such a blessing to read your post that honors God!

@praise_yeshua and @TomL would do well to listen to you recite Job 23:13-14 and believe.

 

[TomL]

Praise God! It was such a blessing to read your post that honors God!

@praise_yeshua and @TomL would do well to listen to you recite Job 23:13-14 and believe.

So God desires the sin of his children?

 

[TomL]

For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
(Romans 7:14-20)

You did not answer the question

So Christians never sin or God desires sin ? Which one?

Please answer the following question. I have only asked one question to you, but it has gone unanswered, so it's repeated from previously for your convenience, below.



Do you think you are a friend of Jesus, TomL?

Yes happy now

Jesus says "you" with reference to His friends as recorded in John 15:14-19, and Jesus says "you" with reference to His exclusively chosen ones as recorded in John 15:14-19.

The blessing by Jesus to the "you" as recorded in John 15:14-19 is to all believers in all time.

​

You are My friends if you do what I command you. No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you. This I command you, that you love one another. If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you​

(John 15:14-19, KJV, NASB1995, and YLT)​

​

All glory to God! All praise to the Bread of Life! God alone does all to save the children of God from the wrath of God, and man, who does absolutely nothing to contribute, is the blessed recipient of God’s mercy and God's grace for man's salvation.

In context it was Christ words to the disciples messengers he had chosen

Nothing there concerning on what basis he chose them

Later he stated they were given to him by the father who they belonged to

John 17:6–9 (ESV) — 6 “I have manifested your name to the people whom you gave me out of the world. Yours they were, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word. 7 Now they know that everything that you have given me is from you. 8 For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me. 9 I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours.

How they became the father's ins not stated

Nothing there about unconditional selection to salvation either

you have to assume that

 

[TomL]

Yep.....Add the appeal to Psalm 91 and jt is clearly the purpose of God to do so. It didn't happen. God didn't get what He wanted.

Not to mention many commands given to repent

 

[TomL]

Read it, says nothing about He didnt get what He wanted, thats Blasphemy, Jesus is God and His Death gathers them He died for Jn 11:50-52

50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

What part of

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!

ye would not is not plain to you

Jeremiah 18:9–12 (ESV) — 9 And if at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom that I will build and plant it, 10 and if it does evil in my sight, not listening to my voice, then I will relent of the good that I had intended to do to it. 11 Now, therefore, say to the men of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem: ‘Thus says the LORD, Behold, I am shaping disaster against you and devising a plan against you. Return, every one from his evil way, and amend your ways and your deeds.’ 12 “But they say, ‘That is in vain! We will follow our own plans, and will every one act according to the stubbornness of his evil heart.’

 

[praise_yeshua]

Praise God! It was such a blessing to read your post that honors God!

@praise_yeshua and @TomL would do well to listen to you recite Job 23:13-14 and believe.

Are you going to recognize that you misquoted Job or not?

Do you want to go word by word through your recent quote of Job 23:13-14?

 

[brightfame52]

Shiloh is nothing more than a English word translated from an Aramaic source.

You're reading from a KJV based upon a poor edition of Genesis. Even the MT Hebrew reads in English

Gen 49:10 The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor the ruler's staff from between his feet, until tribute comes to him; and to him shall be the obedSience of the peoples.

You need more experience.

Sj

You did not answer the question

So Christians never sin or God desires sin ? Which one?





Yes happy now

In context it was Christ words to the disciples messengers he had chosen

Nothing there concerning on what basis he chose them

Later he stated they were given to him by the father who they belonged to

John 17:6–9 (ESV) — 6 “I have manifested your name to the people whom you gave me out of the world. Yours they were, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word. 7 Now they know that everything that you have given me is from you. 8 For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me. 9 I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours.

How they became the father's ins not stated

Nothing there about unconditional selection to salvation either

you have to assume that

Whoever sins it is according to the will God, He purposed it. He purposed pharaoh not to obey and then commanded him to obey so he can sin by disobeying

 

[Johann]

No edification here-
J.

 

[Rockson]

I think you making a terrible mistake in your view.

Why because I believe exactly what he said was true? That when he said he was willing, WILLING to do something for a people that that means you can take that to the bank and believe it and not doubt it?

.....and by no means was the sinless Man Jesus Christ insincere or not speaking the Truth.

And yet Jesus said he was willing to gather Israel and even wept while doing it and you say that's not true.

Before I utter such blasphemy I would bow to the fact I just dont understand it.

That seems to be an acknowledgement that you don't understand how to reconcile what you believe with what Jesus said. Don't let your statement you don't understand hold you back from considering that Jesus spoke the straightforward truth.....the he wanted. willed and longed to gather those that rejected him. And perhaps it's blasphemy for you to consider what he said wasn't absolutely true?

 

[TomL]

Sj

Whoever sins it is according to the will God, He purposed it. He purposed pharaoh not to obey and then commanded him to obey so he can sin by disobeying

So God desires sin. You have just destroyed the holiness of God

James 1:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

1 John 2:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

 

[TomL]

Sj

Whoever sins it is according to the will God, He purposed it. He purposed pharaoh not to obey and then commanded him to obey so he can sin by disobeying

It's God's will that you sin not

Ephesians 4:26 (ESV) — 26 Be angry and do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger,

Romans 6:14 (ESV) — 14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

Romans 6:12 (ESV) — 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions.

1 John 2:1 (ESV) — 1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

 

[Presby02]

More Blasphemy , God not getting what He wanted

So much for God's omnipotence. I'm sure He tried hard though.

 

[TomL]

So much for God's omnipotence. I'm sure He tried hard though.

Do you have children? Do they always do what you want?

Do you have sufficient power to force them to do your will?

 

[Presby02]

Do you have children? Do they always do what you want?

Do you have sufficient power to force them to do your will?

Your analogous to thee Almighty God? Are you omnipotent? Come on.

 

[brightfame52]

So God desires sin. You have just destroyed the holiness of God

James 1:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

1 John 2:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

God willed sin because He willed the Saviour for sin before the world began. 1 Pet 1:18-20

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Now was Christ the foreordained redeemer of sin before Adam was created and sinned ? Yes or No

 

[brightfame52]

It's God's will that you sin not

Ephesians 4:26 (ESV) — 26 Be angry and do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger,

Romans 6:14 (ESV) — 14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

Romans 6:12 (ESV) — 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions.

1 John 2:1 (ESV) — 1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

Gods will of command is oft times different from His will of purpose. God told Pharoah to obey yet He willed that he wouldn't obey.

 

[brightfame52]

So much for God's omnipotence. I'm sure He tried hard though.

Not hard enough, even though scripture says Dan 4:35

35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

The word for will is ṣᵊḇâ
o desire, be inclined, be willing, be pleased

1. (P'al)
   1. to desire
   2. to be pleased
   3. to will (without hindrance) (of God)

Yet we have men saying God doesnt get what He wants.
All i can say is this:
Matt 12:36
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

 

[TomL]

Gods will of command is oft times different from His will of purpose. God told Pharoah to obey yet He willed that he wouldn't obey.

You make God disingenuous when dealing with his people

It's God's will that you sin not

Ephesians 4:26 (ESV) — 26 Be angry and do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger,

Romans 6:14 (ESV) — 14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

Romans 6:12 (ESV) — 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions.

1 John 2:1 (ESV) — 1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

 

[Presby02]

Not hard enough, even though scripture says Dan 4:35

35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

The word for will is ṣᵊḇâ
o desire, be inclined, be willing, be pleased

1. (P'al)
   1. to desire
   2. to be pleased
   3. to will (without hindrance) (of God)

Yet we have men saying God doesnt get what He wants.
All i can say is this:
Matt 12:36
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

Pharoah is a great example.