What does Romans 10 have to do with it?
Ephesians 3 is the text in question. "You are saved by grace THROUGH faith", grace being the means. Not the reason. The readin is God's unmerited favor.
An Article on free will
- Thread starter TomL
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What does Romans 10 have to do with it?
Ephesians 3 is the text in question. "You are saved by grace THROUGH faith", grace being the means. Not the reason. The readin is God's unmerited favor.
"By means of"
civic
Well-known member
TibiasDad
Well-known member
Yes, but we must also acknowledge that it is only in the accusative case that it is appropriate. Eph 2:8-9 is in the genitive.
This does not negate that faith is a causative factor in salvation. One must only ask the question why one is saved, and the answer must include “because we believed” as well as by grace. If we are condemned because we don’t believe in God’s promises, then are we not also saved because we do believe?
Doug
DavidTree
Well-known member
SHALOM and Good Morning Doug
Doug, never take my answers as a slight against you.
God has given me a very good intellectual brain.
Yet as i grew in CHRIST i realized that "men seek honor from one another" = the deadly spiritual disease of "respect of persons."
i do not know about you but i don't like no diseases in my spirit/soul.
With my God given intellect, i could of went on to 'higher eduMancation', received a 'doctorate of divinity' and my inglorious 'paper crown'
Choosing rather to receive true Glory from Above, i abandoned that path for a HIGHER PATH that is far MORE difficult with a FAR GREATER Reward = a Eternal Crown in CHRIST that will never fade away.
Paper crowns are temporary and only valid here on earth - where men rule over men.
Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning. Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures.
James 1:17
SHALOM and Good Morning Doug
.
civic
Well-known member
thanks for agreeing with me it means because of.
you finally have come to your senses and can read what the Greek Lexicons and all the English dictionaries define it to mean as " because of ".
Amen !!!
There is hope for you after all.
TibiasDad
Well-known member
DavidTree
Well-known member
paper crowns know no bounds
for they make man look mighty
Before the Almighty
His Face shown down
not on men with paper crowns
but Shown upon Stephen who told them
your place is on sinking ground
men can be eduMancated
where they believe they are elevated
far above the simple man
the simple Man who came to Town
who laid down HIS Eternal Crown
to reach the lowly on ground zero
yes, yes, yes, HE alone is my HERO
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Thanks. So it does mean by means of..Glad you came aroundthanks for agreeing with me it means because of.
you finally have come to your senses and can read what the Greek Lexicons and all the English dictionaries define it to mean as " because of ".
Amen !!!
There is hope for you after all.
Yes
and this is key
This does not negate that faith is a causative factor in salvation.
Sorry no
The issue is the larger ones
The meaning of DIA
and whether one is saved because of their faith
The definitions I supplied and the example I supplied confirm both of the things I have stated
You stated it is never because of faith
The verse I quoted proves you wrong
Case closed
DavidTree
Well-known member
@TibiasDad @civic @Presby02
my suggestion to you fine men
stop straining over a gnat
i would just give it a good spat
there are far more Greater things then that
Saving Faith, not one of you could muster
so why all the hoopla and the fluster
Saving Faith cometh down from Above
Given by the SPIRIT whose Form is the DOVE
For God so loved each of us
that HE made a Very BIG FUSS
HE sent His Son to die in our place
Saving Grace dripped down from HIS Bleeding FACE
Wounds so great that no man could Endure
His Pain took our diseases for SURE
His Body whipped and ripped wide open
His Side was sliced yet it too had Spoken
Blood and Water out His Side
for the Great Price HE PAID
for HIS Beautiful BRIDE
my suggestion to you fine men
stop straining over a gnat
i would just give it a good spat
there are far more Greater things then that
Saving Faith, not one of you could muster
so why all the hoopla and the fluster
Saving Faith cometh down from Above
Given by the SPIRIT whose Form is the DOVE
For God so loved each of us
that HE made a Very BIG FUSS
HE sent His Son to die in our place
Saving Grace dripped down from HIS Bleeding FACE
Wounds so great that no man could Endure
His Pain took our diseases for SURE
His Body whipped and ripped wide open
His Side was sliced yet it too had Spoken
Blood and Water out His Side
for the Great Price HE PAID
for HIS Beautiful BRIDE
civic
Well-known member
so are you saying those who never come to faith were never given "saving faith" from God and an opportunity to be saved ?
this sounds like the Calvinists tulip- some are elect to be saved and others elect to be damned
Sorry I posted multiple lexicons giving because of and can post multiple verses where it is translated because
Bible Search for lemma.g:διά INTERSECTS because
| King James Version 55 results in 52 verses I only included those in Matthew | |
| Matt 13:5 | Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth: |
| Matt 13:6 | And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away. |
| Matt 13:21 | Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. |
| Matt 13:58 | And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief. |
| Matt 17:20 | And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. |
| Matt 24:12 | And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. |
| Matt 27:19 | When he was set down on the judgment seat, his wife sent unto him, saying, Have thou nothing to do with that just man: for I have suffered many things this day in a dream because of him. |
DavidTree
Well-known member
watts-the-mattah-u
u canot reed?
Let's get back to our Sure Foundation please
this is nothing for you to sneeze
the law came thru Moses
there were no pretty roses
GRACE and TRUTH came down from Above
the Word became flesh = God's True LOVE
Did you muster from your own strength to please Him
for without faith we could never Please
where does this leave us
Certainly not flapping in the breeze
LOOK, His SON
is Nailed to a TREE
Not by works(your own faith) lest any man should boast
But by FAITH we are SAVED = NOT of works
Did you HEAR and did you BELIEVE???
absolutely! = from Him who Died on that TREE
Your faith in His WORD
set you apart from
the flesh eating birds
Now you have wings like the Dove
You are in the Kingdom of the Son of His Love
Put to Flight those Wings of Love
Today share the Gospel
of the Son of His Love
civic
Well-known member
I will give you scripture and what Jesus actually said and taught about faith.
Jesus taught that a persons faith comes before they are healed or saved.
Here is how some would rewrite Jesus words below and add to scripture things that were never said nor implied.
Parenthesis is Calvinism false assertion below that God gives faith. Jesus said it was THEIR faith that saved them.
Luke 7:50
And he said to the woman, Thy faith ( I have given you )hath saved thee; go in peace.
Luke 8:48
"Daughter," said Jesus, "your faith ( I have given you )has healed you. Go in peace."
Luke 17:19
Then Jesus said to him, "Rise and go; your faith( I have given you ) has made you well!"
Luke 18:42
"Receive your sight!" Jesus replied. "Your faith( I have give you ) has healed you."
Matthew 8:10
When Jesus heard this, He marveled and said to those following Him, "Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith.
Matthew 8:13
Then Jesus said to the centurion, "Go! As you have believed, so will it be done for you." And his servant was healed at that very hour.
Matthew 9:2
Just then some men brought to Him a paralytic lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, "Take courage, son; your sins are forgiven.
Matthew 9:22
Jesus turned and saw her. "Take courage, daughter," He said, "your faith has healed you." And the woman was cured from that very hour.
Matthew 9:29
Then He touched their eyes and said, "According to your faith will it be done to you."
Matthew 15:28
"O woman," Jesus answered, "your faith is great! Let it be done for you as you desire." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.
Mark 5:34
"Daughter," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be free of your affliction."
Mark 10:52
"Go," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you." And immediately he received his sight and followed Jesus along the road.
John 4:53
So the father knew that it was at the same hour, in the which Jesus said unto him, Thy son liveth: and himself believed, and his whole house.
Your saved through faith or by the means of faith. Your saved by grace.
Case closed. Deal with it
civic
Well-known member
because of our faith we are saved by His grace.
