An Article on free will

DavidTree said:
Like a madman who throws firebrands, arrows, and death, so is the man who deceives his neighbor and says, “Was I not joking?”
(Proverbs 24:18-18)

WOW - a little EXTREME there 'Kermos'

All you have to say is: i do not prefer friendly banter, nevertheless - good scripture misapplied

"it is always portrayed in scripture as a human responsibility and action" = 50/50 here Brother

"never a divine action , never a divine responsibility." = 100% FALSE

If there NEVER was a 'divine' response from within our spirit
AND
NEVER a divine action or responsibility = NO ONE could be SAVED

Now @civic @TomL @TibiasDad you can ask me - PROVE IT (in His love of course)
Click to expand...
It is God's who provides revelation and salvation

It is man's responsibility to believe
 
@TibiasDad (Brother Doug) @civic @TomL

OK my BROTHER's let us gather around our KING, our REDEEMER and our CHIEF SHEPHERD
SEEK you will FIND the TRUTH

Matthew 19:17-26
Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”

17So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18He said to Him, “Which ones?”

Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

20The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?”

21Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possession

23Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
24And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

25When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”

26But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
 
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DavidTree said:
@TibiasDad (Brother Doug) @civic @TomL

OK my BROTHER's let us gather around our KING, our REDEEMER and our CHIEF SHEPHERD
SEEK you will FIND the TRUTH

Matthew 19:17-26
Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”

17So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18He said to Him, “Which ones?”

Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

20The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?”

21Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possession

23Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
24And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

25When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”

26But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
Click to expand...
No one questions man cannot save himself

God must do it

And he promises to save those that believe

1 Corinthians 1:21 (KJV 1900) — 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
 
DavidTree said:
@TibiasDad (Brother Doug) @civic @TomL

OK my BROTHER's let us gather around our KING, our REDEEMER and our CHIEF SHEPHERD
SEEK you will FIND the TRUTH

Matthew 19:17-26
Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”

17So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18He said to Him, “Which ones?”

Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

20The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?”

21Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possession

23Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
24And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

25When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”

26But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
Click to expand...
I don’t think @civic , @TomL or I have ever said anything contrary to this. I, at least, am waiting for specific evidence that we have stated anything that would be adverse to this passage.


Doug
 
TibiasDad said:
I don’t think @civic , @TomL or I have ever said anything contrary to this. I, at least, am waiting for specific evidence that we have stated anything that would be adverse to this passage.


Doug
Click to expand...

Brother Doug, please always remember we are together yieding ourselves to Christ's words/Truth

Please look at your statements that are in direct conflict with JESUS saying: "It is IMPOSSIBLE for men to be saved = even thru the Commandments, which are the words of God."

JESUS clearly says SALVATION is ONLY POSSIBLE with GOD

Notice JESUS does NOT say with GOD and man.

Compare your statements to Matt 19:25-26

i have to go for now

SHALOM
 
DavidTree said:
Brother Doug, please always remember we are together yieding ourselves to Christ's words/Truth

Please look at your statements that are in direct conflict with JESUS saying: "It is IMPOSSIBLE for men to be saved = even thru the Commandments, which are the words of God."

JESUS clearly says SALVATION is ONLY POSSIBLE with GOD

Notice JESUS does NOT say with GOD and man.

Compare your statements to Matt 19:25-26

i have to go for now

SHALOM
Click to expand...
God saves, man believers. It's called synergism. :)

God does not believe for anyone. Man must believe the gospel to be saved.

Man believes the gospel and God saves that man from his sin and places them in Christ.
 
TomL said:
No one questions man cannot save himself

God must do it

And he promises to save those that believe

1 Corinthians 1:21 (KJV 1900) — 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
Click to expand...
How many times is 'God' mentioned in 1 Cor 1:21
 
TomL said:
Three

relevancy?
Click to expand...
3 is the Complete Godhead

Relevency = man is excluded EXCEPT to be included as God Elects
civic said:
God saves, man believers. It's called synergism. :)

God does not believe for anyone. Man must believe the gospel to be saved.

Man believes the gospel and God saves that man from his sin and places them in Christ.
Click to expand...
God does not believe for anyone.
Click to expand...
Allow me a little room here to share what i see in scripture = God had to believe for no one could!

Now i AGREE with Scripture, @civic , @TomL @TibiasDad of the CLEAR irrefutable responsibility of man Towards God:

EXAMPLE - Acts 16:25-34
But at midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the prisoners were listening to them. Suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken; and immediately all the doors were opened and everyone’s chains were loosed. And the keeper of the prison, awaking from sleep and seeing the prison doors open, supposing the prisoners had fled, drew his sword and was about to kill himself. But Paul called with a loud voice, saying, “Do yourself no harm, for we are all here.”

Then he called for a light, ran in, and fell down trembling before Paul and Silas. And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”

So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized. Now when he had brought them into his house, he set food before them; and he rejoiced, having believed in God with all his household.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Now where in Scripture does this statement come from: God had to believe for no one could!

#1 - It comes from JESUS own words = "It is IMPOSSIBLE for man to be saved" = DO NOT add to this, it would be in VIOLATION
#2 - It AGAIN comes from JESUS own words = "With God all things are possible" = DO NOT add to this, it would be sin
#3 - God's own words = of Himself and Salvation

Isaiah 63:5
I looked, but there was no one to help,
And I wondered
That there was no one to uphold;
Therefore My own arm brought salvation for Me;

Man is not included in God's Salvation = Election by Grace, not of works, not of ourselves

LOOK again: My own arm brought salvation for Me;

This is REPEATED in 1 Corinthians and Revelation
 
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DavidTree said:
3 is the Complete Godhead

Relevency = man is excluded EXCEPT to be included as God Elects


Allow me a little room here to share what i see in scripture = God had to believe for no one could!

Now i AGREE with Scripture, @civic , @TomL @TibiasDad of the CLEAR irrefutable responsibility of man Towards God:

EXAMPLE - Acts 16:25-34
But at midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the prisoners were listening to them. Suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken; and immediately all the doors were opened and everyone’s chains were loosed. And the keeper of the prison, awaking from sleep and seeing the prison doors open, supposing the prisoners had fled, drew his sword and was about to kill himself. But Paul called with a loud voice, saying, “Do yourself no harm, for we are all here.”

Then he called for a light, ran in, and fell down trembling before Paul and Silas. And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”

So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized. Now when he had brought them into his house, he set food before them; and he rejoiced, having believed in God with all his household.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Now where in Scripture does this statement come from: God had to believe for no one could!

#1 - It comes from JESUS own words = "It is IMPOSSIBLE for man to be saved" = DO NOT add to this, it would be in VIOLATION
#2 - It AGAIN comes from JESUS own words = "With God all things are possible" = DO NOT add to this, it would be sin
#3 - God's own words = of Himself and Salvation

I looked, but there was no one to help,
And I wondered
That there was no one to uphold;
Therefore My own arm brought salvation for Me;

Man is not included in God's Salvation = Election by Grace, not of works, not of ourselves

LOOK again: My own arm brought salvation for Me;

This is REPEATED in 1 Corinthians and Revelation
Click to expand...
That has nothing at all to do with God believing for mankind

And everything to do with the fact only God can save
 
TomL said:
That has nothing at all to do with God believing for mankind

And everything to do with the fact only God can save
Click to expand...

Well the Holy Spirit speaking thru Isaiah did not include any decision making of man in Salvation

"My own arm brought salvation for Me;"

Neither did the LORD Jesus Christ = "With man it is IMPOSSIBLE"

You are free to believe or not - it should not separate us from the LOVE of CHRIST

If you look more closely at Acts ch16 you will see more!
 
TomL said:
di·chot·o·my
[dīˈkädəmē]
noun
  1. a division or contrast between two things that are or are represented as being opposed or entirely different:
Click to expand...
slice it or dice it , it remains the SAME

you add a little of this or a little of that
the only thing God said is: Give me the FAT
Now Why is that?

It is not under your hat
It is not in your cat
You'll find it in surrender
That's Where It's At

You cannot absorb protein
without the FAT
Without protein you would not be That

All in ALL
God had a PLAN
to SAVE mankind
without the help of man

HE came in the flesh you say
YES, that HE Did
so a body was prepared for HIM
THAT is what HE DID

No, no that won't go
HE called Himself the son of man
why is, you do not understand

IAM said the 'man'
No voice heard but Mine
No form seen but Mine
IAM HE, HE who is DIVINE

the body prepared for Sacrifice
don't think twice as the Romans threw the dice
this was done BEFORE any man
YES, the LAMB slain
BEFORE there was a man

Man oh man why can't they see
the Price of Salvation came from ME
not by man's doing
nor by works
that would only be for quirks

Don't believe me
i can understand
God had a PLAN
that was void of man

for that which is impossible for man
the FATHER sent His SON
disguised as a man

No man paid that PRICE
for we are all just throwing dice
Snake Eyes come up every time
for the Devil knew
man cannot withstand
 
DavidTree said:
slice it or dice it , it remains the SAME

you add a little of this or a little of that
the only thing God said is: Give me the FAT
Now Why is that?

It is not under your hat
It is not in your cat
You'll find it in surrender
That's Where It's At

You cannot absorb protein
without the FAT
Without protein you would not be That

All in ALL
God had a PLAN
to SAVE mankind
without the help of man

HE came in the flesh you say
YES, that HE Did
so a body was prepared for HIM
THAT is what HE DID

No, no that won't go
HE called Himself the son of man
why is you do not understand

IAM said the 'man'
No voice heard but Mine
No form seen but Mine
Must be HE, HE who is DIVINE

the body prepared for Sacrifice
don't think twice as the Romans threw the dice
this was done BEFORE any man
YES, the LAMB slain
BEFORE there was a man

Man oh man why can't they see
the Price of Salvation came from ME
not by man's doing
nor by works
that would only be for jerks

Don't believe me
i can understand
God had a PLAN
that was void of man

for that which is impossible for man
the FATHER sent His SON
disguised as a man

No man paid that PRICE
for we are all just throwing dice
Snake Eyes come up every time
for the Devil knew
man cannot withstand
Click to expand...
So what have you posted which actually points to God believing for man?
 

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