Sorry you are just repeating your opinion while ignoring everything contrary to itFalse teaching by TomL again.
First, Lord Jesus declares a man cannot perceive the Kingdom of God unless the man is born of God with "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3).
Second, Lord Jesus declares a man cannot partake the Kingdom of God unless the man is born of God with "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God" (John 3:5).
The Word of God pronounces the individual concept of see (perceive) the Kingdom of God (John 3:3), and the Word of God pronounces the individual concept of enter (partake) the Kingdom of God (John 3:5), but the Word of God doesn't stop there.
Third, Lord Jesus declares a man born of the flesh cannot see (perceive) and cannot enter (partake) the Kingdom of God without first being born of God with "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit" (John 3:6).
Since you love to quote your god Calvin so very much, then you are a Calvinist. We shall see you preaching your god Calvin's word, below.
See way back in post #2,092 where you are recorded quoting your god Calvin as your "truth" to purportedly prove your sovereignty of man over and above the Sovereignty of God.
Look again in another post #2,121 where you are recorded intensifying your exaltation of man by using your god Calvin as a proof text that man chooses to believe in Christ, and your wholehearted agreement with your god Calvin in direct disobedience to Christ's sayings!
Now, behold, TomL and @civic (because of your embracing agreement with TomL's post), you are recorded preaching your god Calvin yet again demonstrating your devotion to Calvinism.
Through your god Calvin, you declare "To SEE the kingdom of God is of the same meaning as to ENTER INTO the kingdom of God, as we shall immediately perceive from the context" respecting "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God." (Lord ans Gos Jesus Christ, John 3:3) as your own heart's treasure (Matthew 15:16-19).
In the Word of God, the word "SEEING" specifically corresponds to "PERCEIVE" as is found in "In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says, ‘YOU WILL KEEP ON HEARING, BUT WILL NOT UNDERSTAND; YOU WILL KEEP ON SEEING, BUT WILL NOT PERCEIVE'" (Matthew 13:14), and the Hebrew of Isaiah 6:9 proves this absolute "SEEING" with purely "PERCEIVE" relationship wherein a certain person sees the Word of God yet fails to righteously perceive the Word of God because such a one cannot know that which he or she fails perceive in the righteous Holy Spirit of God, and the Word of God is "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God." (Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:3).
The Greek word ἰδεῖν (Strong's 3708 - ὁράω (horaó) - to see, perceive, attend to) in John 3:3 denotes visual perception, and the Greek word ἰδεῖν (Strong's 3708 - ὁράω (horaó) - to see, perceive, attend to) connotes mental perception, yet "enter into" fails to define the Greek word ἰδεῖν (Strong's 3708 - ὁράω (horaó) - to see, perceive, attend to), so your thoughts are anti-truth.
You believe in the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9) shown in the below left hand wrong side instead of the pure and Holy Word of God in the below right hand Righteous side:
In Truth (John 14:6), Lord Jesus delays discussion of enter until later in His dialog with Nicodemus (see John 3:5-8) as a different condition than see, so the Word of God focuses on a man's inability to perceive King Jesus of the Kingdom of God unless the man is born of God (see John 3:3).
The traditions of men The Word of God Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot enter the Kingdom of God
(TomL 3:3)Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God.
(Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:3)
Your self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) duplication and unauthorized replacement of the word "enter" from John 3:5 into John 3:3 is because your god Calvin has you "climb up some other way" (John 10:1) instead of being one on "the Way" who "comes to the Father" "because of" Jesus (John 14:6).
As a result of your Calvinism, you adulterate the Word of God into your Book of Free-willians:
See, the King of Glory contrasts flesh from the Spirit as recorded in John 3:6 because Christ says "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are Life" (John 6:63).
The Book of Free-willians The Word of God That which is born of the flesh profits the flesh unto being born of the Spirit
(TomL 3:6)
That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit (John 3:6)
You, TomL and @civic and other free-willians in the flesh, cannot know the true and pure and righteous Lord and King Jesus Christ unless you are first born of God (John 3:3-8) because this Blessed Righteousness says "the flesh profits nothing" (John 6:63).
Let’s take a moment to look at your Calvinistic thoughts regarding John 6:29 as per post #2,121 where you preached "People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us" (the word of Calvinist TomL).
Your adulteration of Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
And so go your adulterations of the Holy Word of God again and again and again.
The word of TomL The Word of God Jesus answered and said to them, “This is not the work of God but this is the work of man, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”
(TomL 6:29)Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”
(John 6:29)
As for your heart's treasure of the word "experience" substituting as a synonym for Christ's "see" in John 3:3, please see this post #2,813 to @Rockson.
Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH!!!
An Article on free will
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
Sorry you are just repeating your opinion while ignoring everything contrary to it
To bad the bible does not support your supposition
Regeneration by definition is the impartation of life
The following verses show faith precedes life
John 5:24 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
John 5:40 (KJV)
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. (one comes to Jesus by faith)
Acts 11:18 (KJV)
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
Regeneration makes one a child of God. Born of God -
One is made a child of God through faith
John 1:12 (KJV)
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Galatians 3:26 (KJV)
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
John 12:36 (KJV)
36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.
Regeneration is a spiritual resurrection. (all agree quickening - being made alive speaks of regeneration when spoken of the physically living)
We are raised spiritually through faith
Colossians 2:12 (KJV)
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
One is born again(regenerated) through faith in gospel
James 1:18 (KJV)
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
Of course unbelief does not profit so it must be through faith
Hebrews 4:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
Regeneration is the mechanism of salvation
Titus 3:5 (KJV)
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Ephesians 2:5 (KJV)
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
it is through faith we are saved
EPH 2:8 (KJV)
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
.through - dia instrument or means in the genitive case - Vines
Regeneration is preceded by remission of sin
Colossians 2:13 (KJV)
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
God regenerates those he has forgiven
foregiveness requires both faith and repentance
Acts 10:43 (KJV)
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Luke 24:47 (KJV)
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Acts 5:31 (KJV)
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Your posted thoughts show that you believe in the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9) shown in the below left hand wrong side instead of the pure and Holy Word of God in the below right hand Righteous side:
| The traditions of men | The Word of God | |
| Truly, truly, I say to you, before one is born again he can see the Kingdom of God (TomL 3:3) | Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God. (Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:3) |
As a result of your Calvinism, you adulterate the Word of God into your Book of Free-willians:
| The Book of Free-willians | The Word of God | |
| That which is born of the flesh profits the flesh unto being born of the Spirit (TomL 3:6) | That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit (John 3:6) |
Your adulteration of Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts (proof post #2,121):
| The word of TomL | The Word of God | |
| Jesus answered and said to them, “This is not the work of God but this is the work of man, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (TomL 6:29) | Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (John 6:29) |
As for your heart's treasure of the word "experience" substituting as a synonym for Christ's "see" in John 3:3, please see this post #2,813 to @Rockson.
Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST!!!
Tom, what I agreed to was this that you said:
Nothing more.
Imagine? Not hardly~by sound biblical hermeneutics, with the Spirit of God opening my understanding to His truth.
It is called CONTEXT, which is king.
Tom~Interpretations must agree with their context.
Remember this law: A text used out of context is a pretext. We cannot violate it; we must learn to spot it.
- A text is a word, clause, verse, paragraph, chapter, or book you are seeking to interpret.
- Context is the surrounding information, which shows the author’s meaning by the text.
- Out of context is using words and their sound contrary to the surrounding information.
- A pretext is a false and incorrect impression designed to hide or disguise the real intent.
Using a verse contrary to its context gives a misleading and deceitful sound of words to teach something the author did not intend and/or is not true. We must hate this abuse of words!
You have had your words used out of context before, and you hated the corruption of your intent and meaning. We must make sure we never do it with the precious Word of God.
This rule applies to all writings and conversations of every sort, and so context is well understood by most people. Contracts, court records, novels, promises, and poetry are all understood in context, or surrounding information, to truly understand their meaning.
Even single words are meaningless without a context, which is why we asked our teacher to use them in a sentence before we would try to spell them in a spelling bee!
Even if we use a verse to teach a true point, make sure we still honor its context. For using the wrong verse to teach the right point is the first subtle step to heresy.
No assumption~it is every clear that Nicodemus had a different spirit than the other Jewish leaders and we proved it, The problem is you just do not want to agree with it, whether or not you see exactly what we are saying, I do not know, but, that's on you.
Tom, you are not making much sense. I see that you are having trouble addressing my post, it is very obvious to me.
Why quote this scriptures? It does not one thing to help your cause. This scriptures is declaring a biblical truth, nothing more! The truth it is declaring is this: those that believe HAVE eternal life, nothing more. It does not say what you desire for it to say.
You are not hearing what John is saying, you are hearing what Tom's heart want to believe!
The verse is simple: those that believe POWER/right/authority is given to them to believe. Read the scriptures the way the Holy Ghost gave them, not the way you want to read them.
I have an appointment...later.
There you go again . just repeating yourself and ignoring all that is contrary to your opinion
You ignore
1 parallel biblical text
2 Contrary lexical data
3 Commentary contrary to your view
and simply spam your view
https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-98763
PS biblical texts are not the traditions of men
yes and that is contrary to Kermos as stated
Um you have never demonstrated any such thing
I stated
How according to Jesus?
John 3:14–15 (NASB 2020) — 14 And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 so that everyone who believes will have eternal life in Him.
John 1:12 (NASB 2020) — 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name,
upon which God would regenerate and cause one to be born again
this is part of the context of
John 3:3–9 (NASB 2020) — 3 Jesus responded and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless someone is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a person be born when he is old? He cannot enter his mother’s womb a second time and be born, can he?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which has been born of the flesh is flesh, and that which has been born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it is coming from and where it is going; so is everyone who has been born of the Spirit.” 9 Nicodemus responded and said to Him, “How can these things be?”
You can pretend Jesus never addressed the question posed by Nicodemus but if you do it is you who are ignoring context
Um it is obvious to me you are a victim of your own wishful thinking
Nowhere in the text was it stated one must be born again so as to believe
and that idea is contrary to the biblical record
Regeneration by definition is the impartation of life
The following verses show faith precedes life
John 5:24 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
John 5:40 (KJV)
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. (one comes to Jesus by faith)
Acts 11:18 (KJV)
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
Regeneration makes one a child of God. Born of God -
One is made a child of God through faith
John 1:12 (KJV)
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Galatians 3:26 (KJV)
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
John 12:36 (KJV)
36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.
Regeneration is a spiritual resurrection. (all agree quickening - being made alive speaks of regeneration when spoken of the physically living)
We are raised spiritually through faith
Colossians 2:12 (KJV)
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
One is born again(regenerated) through faith in gospel
James 1:18 (KJV)
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
Of course unbelief does not profit so it must be through faith
Hebrews 4:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
Regeneration is the mechanism of salvation
Titus 3:5 (KJV)
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Ephesians 2:5 (KJV)
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
it is through faith we are saved
EPH 2:8 (KJV)
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
.through - dia instrument or means in the genitive case - Vines
Regeneration is preceded by remission of sin
Colossians 2:13 (KJV)
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
God regenerates those he has forgiven
foregiveness requires both faith and repentance
Acts 10:43 (KJV)
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Luke 24:47 (KJV)
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Acts 5:31 (KJV)
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
The way you adulterate Biblical texts results in the traditions of men, just as shown here based upon your writings.
Your posted thoughts show that you believe in the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9) shown in the below left hand wrong side instead of the pure and Holy Word of God in the below right hand Righteous side:
| The traditions of men | The Word of God | |
| Truly, truly, I say to you, before one is born again he can see the Kingdom of God (TomL 3:3) | Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God. (Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:3) |
As a result of your Calvinism, you adulterate the Word of God into your Book of Free-willians:
| The Book of Free-willians | The Word of God | |
| That which is born of the flesh profits the flesh unto being born of the Spirit (TomL 3:6) | That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit (John 3:6) |
Your adulteration of Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts (proof post #2,121):
| The word of TomL | The Word of God | |
| Jesus answered and said to them, “This is not the work of God but this is the work of man, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (TomL 6:29) | Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (John 6:29) |
As for your heart's treasure of the word "experience" substituting as a synonym for Christ's "see" in John 3:3, please see this post #2,813 to @Rockson.
Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE LIVING LORD JESUS CHRIST!!!
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Just as I said to Tom~follow the context it will drive this interpretation.
Rockson, I agree Nicodemus did not know anything about the phrase~born again, afterall, their (Pharisees) whole religionist system was based upon man's rellgion/teachings not the truth. The sermon on the mount by Christ is nothing more than a corrections of their leaders corrupting scriptures~"you have heard, but I say...."
Besides, there are many truths if the truth was known, whereby men are just a ignorant as Nicodemus was.
You are not reading the scriptures correctly~Jesus never said to him he needed to be born again...never, that is what you have heard all your life and have come to accept this. Or, you are just assuming Jesus meant that when he said this:
John 3:7
“Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.” That is, in order to SEE......go back where Jesus fist said these words and ponder them carefully:
John 3:3
“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
Jesus never said to Nicodemus, expect YOU be born again, you cannot see the kingdom of God....But except a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God! A huge different one that drives the interpretation of this discourse between Jesus and Nicodemus for us to understand its context.
Nicodemus came to Jesus and made a child like confession of Jesus being sent of God, one just as strong as you or I could have made and so much different than the other Pharisees said concerning Jesus, accusing him of being demon possess, doing miracles through the power of the devil. Not only this, but follow the scriptures concerning Nicodemus and they will confirm what we are saying. He defended Jesus before the Sanhedrin, and came to anoint the body of Jesus! All recorded in John's gospel. John 7:50; 19:39.
He may have never departed from the Pharisees, but I have no problem with that, since many of God's children may never leave certain religionist group. There are men on this forum, with different beliefs, yet some are God's children, some may not be, some never leave for whatever reason known only to God. I look for fruits of the Spirit more than certain doctrinal teachings. Some teachings are antichrist, and those people I reject, some it is not as clear, so I just patiently work with them and discuss scriptures with them.
Are you saying that verse does not apply to Nicodemus? Really? What makes Nicodemus a class above all other men? Give me a break.
Are you saying that verse does not apply to Nicodemus? Really? What makes Nicodemus a class above all other men? Give me a break.
Did you expend any effort to read @Red Baker's very recent posts?
He wrote:
No assumption~it is every clear that Nicodemus had a different spirit than the other Jewish leaders and we proved it, The problem is you just do not want to agree with it, whether or not you see exactly what we are saying, I do not know, but, that's on you.
Now, the question is, will you apologize?
Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE ONE WHO IS TRUTH!!!
Still repeat
still do not address
1 parallel biblical texts
2 Contrary lexical data
3 Commentary contrary to your view
and simply spam your view
https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-98763
PS biblical texts are not the traditions of men
Did you expend any effort to read what I quoted from RB?
RB is declaring that "you" (Nicodemus) is not the subject here. That places Nicodemus in a class by himself, apart from "a man". Basic English Grammar. Now if you want to backtrack from RB's statement then you have all the freedom in the world to do so.
Rockson
Well-known member
He made a decision and it was true that Jesus must have come from God but you can't take from that it meant he was born again. Jesus also added in vs 11 that after he explained something about it and Nicodemus still questioned he said he still was not receiving the testimony. How can you not receive the testimony and you claim he was born again?
Brother (and I think you are, regardless your thoughts toward me, and I'm saying this judging your spirit in your writings of your post, which is all I have to go by) I believe what I have written mainly based upon the following:
1. First, let me say that it took me maybe seven to ten years to see this truth after I first believed back in my mid twenties when I came to Christ, or Christ came to me, I should say.
Galatians 4:9
“But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?”
So, I'm obligated, or, and constrained, to be patience with all men, knowing just how slow of heart we all are over most truths, if we are honest with ourselves and before others. Not to be honest would be a discouragement to young believers seeking to understand truth and to grow in grace and knowledge of the same.
2. Rockson, the flow of the context which drives its meaning for us, opens up for us what God intended for us to see, if we carefully read what is being said in this discourse between Jesus and Nicodemus. If we do, then we must believe what Nicodemus said to Jesus, prompt what Jesus said back to him.
3. Consider Nicodemus a ruler of the Jews, one of about 71 of the Sanhedrin Council ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanhedrin ) if sources are correct. This man's spirit was totally different from them~you cannot escape his humble, childlike faith, and confession, without purposely refusing to acknowledge the testimony of the Holy Ghost as we read about it here in John 3.
4.. After Nicodemus' confession, (yes, a sincere and humble confession, if it was not sincere, the holy Ghost would have told us, no cunning craftiness involved in what Nicodemus said to Jesus, as some of the Pharisees and lawyers used on him at times.) Jesus' words back to him is what makes this discourse begin to come to light as to its true meaning, and all that follows, can be supported with other scriptures in God word.
5. Jesus took Nicodemus' confession and said what he said to teach us a powerful spiritual truth~and it is this: "except a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God". Jesus took Nicodemus' confession as a proof of a man that God had quickened to life, to teach us, that the new birth is a birth by the Spirit of God alone, and once a person experience this birth, he can SEE, HEAR, and BELIEVE, just as Nicodemus did, (even though a long ways to go, yet the power is given in the new birth) proven by what he did and said in verse one of John three. NIcodemus never walked down aisle, never came to the sinner mourners' bench; no, he, like all sinners was quickened to life by the power of God~unknown to him exactly when it took place, just like it did with us~probably can get close to the season, but the exact time is unknown, we can only see the fruits of the new birth in others life, by certain fruits of the Spirit showing itself, jsu as it did with Nicodemus.
I'm coming back to finish since I just got a call go somewhere. I do not want to rush and finish, so I'll come back later today. RB
You are very busy telling Jesus that His sayings do not mean what Jesus says in this exchange, and here is the proof.
First, Lord Jesus declares a man cannot perceive the Kingdom of God unless the man is born of God with "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3).
Second, Lord Jesus declares a man cannot partake the Kingdom of God unless the man is born of God with "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God" (John 3:5).
The Word of God pronounces the individual concept of see (perceive) the Kingdom of God (John 3:3), and the Word of God pronounces the individual concept of enter (partake) the Kingdom of God (John 3:5), but the Word of God doesn't stop there.
Third, Lord Jesus declares a man born of the flesh cannot see (perceive) and cannot enter (partake) the Kingdom of God without first being born of God with "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit" (John 3:6).
Since you love to quote your god Calvin so very much, then you are a Calvinist. We shall see you preaching your god Calvin's word, below.
See way back in post #2,092 where you are recorded quoting your god Calvin as your "truth" to purportedly prove your sovereignty of man over and above the Sovereignty of God.
Look again in another post #2,121 where you are recorded intensifying your exaltation of man by using your god Calvin as a proof text that man chooses to believe in Christ, and your wholehearted agreement with your god Calvin in direct disobedience to Christ's sayings!
Now, behold, TomL and @civic (because of your embracing agreement with TomL's post), you are recorded preaching your god Calvin yet again demonstrating your devotion to Calvinism.
Through your god Calvin, you declare "To SEE the kingdom of God is of the same meaning as to ENTER INTO the kingdom of God, as we shall immediately perceive from the context" respecting "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God." (Lord ans Gos Jesus Christ, John 3:3) as your own heart's treasure (Matthew 15:16-19).
In the Word of God, the word "SEEING" specifically corresponds to "PERCEIVE" as is found in "In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says, ‘YOU WILL KEEP ON HEARING, BUT WILL NOT UNDERSTAND; YOU WILL KEEP ON SEEING, BUT WILL NOT PERCEIVE'" (Matthew 13:14), and the Hebrew of Isaiah 6:9 proves this absolute "SEEING" with purely "PERCEIVE" relationship wherein a certain person sees the Word of God yet fails to righteously perceive the Word of God because such a one cannot know that which he or she fails perceive in the righteous Holy Spirit of God, and the Word of God is "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God." (Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:3).
The Greek word ἰδεῖν (Strong's 3708 - ὁράω (horaó) - to see, perceive, attend to) in John 3:3 denotes visual perception, and the Greek word ἰδεῖν (Strong's 3708 - ὁράω (horaó) - to see, perceive, attend to) connotes mental perception, yet "enter into" fails to define the Greek word ἰδεῖν (Strong's 3708 - ὁράω (horaó) - to see, perceive, attend to), so your thoughts are anti-truth.
You believe in the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9) shown in the below left hand wrong side instead of the pure and Holy Word of God in the below right hand Righteous side:
| The traditions of men | The Word of God | |
| Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot enter the Kingdom of God (TomL 3:3) | Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God. (Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:3) |
Your self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) duplication and unauthorized replacement of the word "enter" from John 3:5 into John 3:3 is because your god Calvin has you "climb up some other way" (John 10:1) instead of being one on "the Way" who "comes to the Father" "because of" Jesus (John 14:6).
As a result of your Calvinism, you adulterate the Word of God into your Book of Free-willians:
| The Book of Free-willians | The Word of God | |
| That which is born of the flesh profits the flesh unto being born of the Spirit (TomL 3:6) | That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit (John 3:6) |
You, TomL and @civic and other free-willians in the flesh, cannot know the true and pure and righteous Lord and King Jesus Christ unless you are first born of God (John 3:3-8) because this Blessed Righteousness says "the flesh profits nothing" (John 6:63).
Let’s take a moment to look at your Calvinistic thoughts regarding John 6:29 as per post #2,121 where you preached "People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us" (the word of Calvinist TomL).
Your adulteration of Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
| The word of TomL | The Word of God | |
| Jesus answered and said to them, “This is not the work of God but this is the work of man, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (TomL 6:29) | Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (John 6:29) |
As for your heart's treasure of the word "experience" substituting as a synonym for Christ's "see" in John 3:3, please see this post #2,813 to @Rockson.
Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE KING OF GRACE!!!
civic
Well-known member
The Potter and Clay explained by God is Jeremiah 18 below :
As we read the Potter/Clay is conditional upon repenting.
This is the word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord: 2 “Go down to the potter’s house, and there I will give you my message.” 3 So I went down to the potter’s house, and I saw him working at the wheel. 4 But the pot he was shaping from the clay was marred in his hands; so the potter formed it into another pot, shaping it as seemed best to him.
5 Then the word of the Lord came to me. 6 He said, “Can I not do with you, Israel, as this potter does?” declares the Lord. “Like clay in the hand of the potter, so are you in my hand, Israel. 7 If at any time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed, 8 and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned. 9 And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted, 10 and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it.
11 “Now therefore say to the people of Judah and those living in Jerusalem, ‘This is what the Lord says: Look! I am preparing a disaster for you and devising a plan against you. So turn from your evil ways, each one of you, and reform your ways and your actions.’ 12 But they will reply, ‘It’s no use. We will continue with our own plans; we will all follow the stubbornness of our evil hearts.’”
13 Therefore this is what the Lord says:
“Inquire among the nations:
Who has ever heard anything like this?
A most horrible thing has been done
by Virgin Israel.
14 Does the snow of Lebanon
ever vanish from its rocky slopes?
Do its cool waters from distant sources
ever stop flowing?[a]
15 Yet my people have forgotten me;
they burn incense to worthless idols,
which made them stumble in their ways,
in the ancient paths.
They made them walk in byways,
on roads not built up.
16 Their land will be an object of horror
and of lasting scorn;
all who pass by will be appalled
and will shake their heads.
17 Like a wind from the east,
I will scatter them before their enemies;
I will show them my back and not my face
in the day of their disaster.”
18 They said, “Come, let’s make plans against Jeremiah; for the teaching of the law by the priest will not cease, nor will counsel from the wise, nor the word from the prophets. So come, let’s attack him with our tongues and pay no attention to anything he says.”
19 Listen to me, Lord;
hear what my accusers are saying!
20 Should good be repaid with evil?
Yet they have dug a pit for me.
Remember that I stood before you
and spoke in their behalf
to turn your wrath away from them.
21 So give their children over to famine;
hand them over to the power of the sword.
Let their wives be made childless and widows;
let their men be put to death,
their young men slain by the sword in battle.
22 Let a cry be heard from their houses
when you suddenly bring invaders against them,
for they have dug a pit to capture me
and have hidden snares for my feet.
23 But you, Lord, know
all their plots to kill me.
Do not forgive their crimes
or blot out their sins from your sight.
Let them be overthrown before you;
deal with them in the time of your anger.
hope this helps!!!
As we read the Potter/Clay is conditional upon repenting.
This is the word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord: 2 “Go down to the potter’s house, and there I will give you my message.” 3 So I went down to the potter’s house, and I saw him working at the wheel. 4 But the pot he was shaping from the clay was marred in his hands; so the potter formed it into another pot, shaping it as seemed best to him.
5 Then the word of the Lord came to me. 6 He said, “Can I not do with you, Israel, as this potter does?” declares the Lord. “Like clay in the hand of the potter, so are you in my hand, Israel. 7 If at any time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed, 8 and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned. 9 And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted, 10 and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it.
11 “Now therefore say to the people of Judah and those living in Jerusalem, ‘This is what the Lord says: Look! I am preparing a disaster for you and devising a plan against you. So turn from your evil ways, each one of you, and reform your ways and your actions.’ 12 But they will reply, ‘It’s no use. We will continue with our own plans; we will all follow the stubbornness of our evil hearts.’”
13 Therefore this is what the Lord says:
“Inquire among the nations:
Who has ever heard anything like this?
A most horrible thing has been done
by Virgin Israel.
14 Does the snow of Lebanon
ever vanish from its rocky slopes?
Do its cool waters from distant sources
ever stop flowing?[a]
15 Yet my people have forgotten me;
they burn incense to worthless idols,
which made them stumble in their ways,
in the ancient paths.
They made them walk in byways,
on roads not built up.
16 Their land will be an object of horror
and of lasting scorn;
all who pass by will be appalled
and will shake their heads.
17 Like a wind from the east,
I will scatter them before their enemies;
I will show them my back and not my face
in the day of their disaster.”
18 They said, “Come, let’s make plans against Jeremiah; for the teaching of the law by the priest will not cease, nor will counsel from the wise, nor the word from the prophets. So come, let’s attack him with our tongues and pay no attention to anything he says.”
19 Listen to me, Lord;
hear what my accusers are saying!
20 Should good be repaid with evil?
Yet they have dug a pit for me.
Remember that I stood before you
and spoke in their behalf
to turn your wrath away from them.
21 So give their children over to famine;
hand them over to the power of the sword.
Let their wives be made childless and widows;
let their men be put to death,
their young men slain by the sword in battle.
22 Let a cry be heard from their houses
when you suddenly bring invaders against them,
for they have dug a pit to capture me
and have hidden snares for my feet.
23 But you, Lord, know
all their plots to kill me.
Do not forgive their crimes
or blot out their sins from your sight.
Let them be overthrown before you;
deal with them in the time of your anger.
hope this helps!!!
Still repeating your view
still ignoring the evidence
not addressing
1 parallel biblical texts
2 Contrary lexical data
3 Commentary contrary to your view
https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-98763
Rockson
Well-known member
This verse alone sets aside Calvinistic thinking as not being credible. A Calvinist would claim God did not really plan what he said he did here. For the reason that some would repent in their thinking has to mean he ordained with irresistible grace that it always would occur with no possibility of the other.
civic
Well-known member
Yes it’s a stumbling block for them with Roman’s 9 and Gods elect/ chosen Israel. It’s clear it’s about nations and not individuals. Context always reveals their errors.
It is not a conditional scripture of promise for sinners unregenerate (besides, God wrote this not to Egypt, but for Judah) for then you would have to go against so many scriptures, that teaches salvation is of grace, not of works done by the sinner.
I look at this scripture as a declaration of a biblical truth~regardless how wicked a person or a nation is, where there is repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, overall considered~then God will withhold his judgment that their sins deserved~just as he did to Nineveh in the days of Jonah. Still, that does not change the truth that Salvation is totally of God toward such people...again remember Jonah and that which is written by the prophet.
Jonah 2:9
“But I will sacrifice unto thee with the voice of thanksgiving; I will pay that that I have vowed. Salvation is of the LORD.”
I could say more concerning Jonah 2:9 and Jeremiah 18 but to save time, please consider: https://letgodbetrue.com/sermons/jeremiah-chapter-18/
