civic
Well-known member
no you have not. God requires man to believe, act in faith to be saved. Faith is not self righteousness or obedience to the law(works ) its the opposite.
An Article on free will
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
brightfame52
Well-known member
Is believing an act done ? A commandment to do even ?
civic
Well-known member
God says a person must believe in Christ to be saved. Call it whatever you want. God says there is no salvation apart from faith and believing is mans responsibility, not Gods.
hope this helps !!!
brightfame52
Well-known member
If you condition your salvation on keeping a commandment, thats law, works religion. Its apostate friend
civic
Well-known member
I don't condition anything God does. So take that up with God who requires it from man to be saved. Its Gods condition, not mine.
hope this helps !!!
brightfame52
Well-known member
I said if you condition your salvation based on anything you did, its apostate works religionI don't condition anything God does. So take that up with God who requires it from man to be saved. Its Gods condition, not mine.
hope this helps !!!
civic
Well-known member
nope thats your doctrine thats false- projecting.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Oh No, Salvation is by Grace through Faith, totally a Gift of God conditioned only on Christs finished work, yet you reject that and add your doing, be it your faith, repentance, keeping a commandment.
civic
Well-known member
you have no will especially no free will- still in bondage under your systematic. there is no freedom from sin and the Son cannot set you free. humility and freedom are a work therefor cannot exist just like faith.
You are citing your beliefs while ignoring scripture
Not from scripture which clearly shows faith is not a rewardable work
Romans 4:1–5 (NASB 2020) — 1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about; but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 4 Now to the one who works, the wages are not credited as a favor, but as what is due. 5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,
let me know when you are ready to address the verse
brightfame52
Well-known member
If you condition salvation on something you did, its works, deny's Salvation by Grace.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
“ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.”
It's verses like these that prompted me to start the "Belief" thread. Abraham didn't "believe" God in the sense that he believed that what God said was true. Abraham TRUSTED God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.
Again, I have a pet peeve that when people say "I believe in God", what they really mean is "I believe God exists". But that doesn't save you. Like James says, "You believe there is one God? Good. So do demons and shudder." Believing God doesn't save you. What saves you is TRUSTING God, which is another way of saying "faith".
It's verses like these that prompted me to start the "Belief" thread. Abraham didn't "believe" God in the sense that he believed that what God said was true. Abraham TRUSTED God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.
Again, I have a pet peeve that when people say "I believe in God", what they really mean is "I believe God exists". But that doesn't save you. Like James says, "You believe there is one God? Good. So do demons and shudder." Believing God doesn't save you. What saves you is TRUSTING God, which is another way of saying "faith".
Sorry you are ignoring scripture again
Romans 4:16 (NASB 2020) — 16 For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,
brightfame52
Well-known member
You ignore scripture and salvation by grace and promote the damnable gospel of works
Sorry, Paul refuted your claim that faith is works salvation
Romans 4:16 (NASB 2020) — 16 For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,
Your position is not founded upon scripture but a man made theology
brightfame52
Well-known member
That verse tells us that Faith comes by in accordance with Grace, faith is of grace, its a gift of grace. Its not a condition. You advocate faith from the flesh of man to perform to get saved, that's works.
The verse denied you claim faith is a work
Romans 4:16 (NASB 2020) — 16 For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,
and that faith is in accord with grace not that it is a gift of grace.
It says nothing about a gift infused or effectually given.
You eisegetically add that to the text.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Its of Faith that it might be of Grace, faith is the product of Grace Rom 4:16
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Faith is by Grace , its right there in your face !
That simply shows that salvation through faith is consistent with salvation by grace and not a statement faith is a grace gift
Romans 4:16 (NASB 2020) — 16 For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,
the context shows it is righteousness which is represented by the pronoun it
Romans 4:9–15 (NASB 2020) — 9 Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, “FAITH WAS CREDITED TO ABRAHAM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised. 13 For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if those who are of the Law are heirs, then faith is made void and the promise is nullified; 15 for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there also is no violation.
which by faith and that establishes righteousness is by grace
You have misinterpreted the passage
brightfame52
Well-known member
Faith/Believing is by Grace Acts 18:27
27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:
The word through is the prep dia and means:
- the ground or reason by which something is or is not done
- by reason of
- on account of
- because of for this reason
- therefore
- on this account
- of means
- by
- by the means of
- of means
Grace gets the credit for ones believing/Faith, its not of man. It cant be of man and grace, its either or. If you choose by man, its works and is condemned
