Acts 22:16 Paul's salvation

[TomL]

Your statement is completely wrong. As I have said many times: ALL Scripture must be true at the same time. These passages are completely true, but they do not explain what it means to "believe". It requires the reading of additional Scripture to discover that "believing/having faith" requires certain actions. Those actions do not negate these passages, but complete them as our actions do our faith.

Well once again you deny anyone is saved until water baptized so the verses quoted cannot be true in themselves

Not according to you. According to your theology they are all false until one is baptized with water

John 3:14–15 (LEB) — 14 And just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, thus it is necessary that the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 so that everyone who believes in him will have eternal life.”

John 3:16 (LEB) — 16 For in this way God loved the world, so that he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but will have eternal life.

John 3:36 (LEB) — 36 The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who disobeys the Son will not see life—but the wrath of God remains on him.

John 5:24 (LEB) — 24 Truly, truly I say to you that the one who hears my word and who believes the one who sent me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

John 6:40 (LEB) — 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks at the Son and believes in him would have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

John 6:47 (LEB) — 47 Truly, truly I say to you, the one who believes has eternal life.

Acts 10:43 (LEB) — 43 To this one all the prophets testify, that through his name everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins.”

Acts 13:39 (LEB) — 39 by this one everyone who believes is justified!

Acts 16:31 (LEB) — 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household!”

Romans 3:22 (LEB) — 22 that is, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. For there is no distinction,

Romans 10:9 (LEB) — 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 10:9 (LEB) — 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

Ephesians 2:8 (LEB) — 8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God;

 

[dwight92070]

Of course you are obviously wrong. Even the "testimony" of the placing of the gospels AT THE BEGINNING of the New Testament confirms you are wrong. Jesus was clearly stating when the Old Covenant ended - and when the New Covenant began.

You're an expert at reading a verse and then declaring that it is not saying what it actually is saying - a typical ploy of those who don't like what the word is actually saying.

 

[Doug Brents]

Well once again you deny anyone is saved until water baptized so the verses quoted cannot be true in themselves

Not according to you. According to your theology they are all false until one is baptized with water

That is the thing, no Scripture stands by itself. It is ALL true ALL the time. Just taking one passage out of context, out of the whole, alone and by itself, leaves you with a fragment that may be interpreted completely wrong.
1 Kings 3:25 for example. Taken by itself, one might come to the conclusion that it is not only permissible to kill children, but that we are commanded to always kill our children. Obviously that is not the intent of the verse. But if it is taken by itself, out of context and out from other passages that tell us that murder is evil, then we come to the wrong conclusions.

 

[Doug Brents]

Of course you are obviously wrong. Even the "testimony" of the placing of the gospels AT THE BEGINNING of the New Testament confirms you are wrong. Jesus was clearly stating when the Old Covenant ended - and when the New Covenant began.

You're an expert at reading a verse and then declaring that it is not saying what it actually is saying - a typical ploy of those who don't like what the word is actually saying.

I have no problem placing the start of the New Covenant at the beginning of Jesus' life, if that is when Scripture says it started. But it is not. What you are trying to do is to take one passage out of context, twist it to make it mean what you want it to mean, and then use that twisted verse to explain other Scripture the way you want it to read. But that is not how we must read Scripture.

Jesus lived His whole life under the Old Covenant (Gal 4:4-5), His blood was the blood with which the New Covenant was sealed (Matt 26:27-28), and the New Covenant was instituted at His death (Heb 9:15-28). The New Covenant could not be started until the death of the one who made it (Jesus).

 

[TomL]

That is the thing, no Scripture stands by itself. It is ALL true ALL the time. Just taking one passage out of context, out of the whole, alone and by itself, leaves you with a fragment that may be interpreted completely wrong.
1 Kings 3:25 for example. Taken by itself, one might come to the conclusion that it is not only permissible to kill children, but that we are commanded to always kill our children. Obviously that is not the intent of the verse. But if it is taken by itself, out of context and out from other passages that tell us that murder is evil, then we come to the wrong conclusions.

Sorry, every verse of scripture is true

Your view however demands many verses of themselves are not true

John 3:14–15 (LEB) — 14 And just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, thus it is necessary that the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 so that everyone who believes in him will have eternal life.”

John 3:16 (LEB) — 16 For in this way God loved the world, so that he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but will have eternal life.

John 3:36 (LEB) — 36 The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who disobeys the Son will not see life—but the wrath of God remains on him.

John 5:24 (LEB) — 24 Truly, truly I say to you that the one who hears my word and who believes the one who sent me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

John 6:40 (LEB) — 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks at the Son and believes in him would have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

John 6:47 (LEB) — 47 Truly, truly I say to you, the one who believes has eternal life.

Acts 10:43 (LEB) — 43 To this one all the prophets testify, that through his name everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins.”

Acts 13:39 (LEB) — 39 by this one everyone who believes is justified!

Acts 16:31 (LEB) — 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household!”

Romans 3:22 (LEB) — 22 that is, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. For there is no distinction,

Romans 10:9 (LEB) — 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 10:9 (LEB) — 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

Ephesians 2:8 (LEB) — 8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God;

therefore your view is an error

 

[Doug Brents]

Sorry, every verse of scripture is true

Your view however demands many verses of themselves are not true

therefore your view is an error

Every verse in Scripture is true at the same time. You want to make the verses you keep posting be true to the exclusion of 1 Pet 3:21, Acts 2:38, John 3:5, Gal 3:26-27, Eph 5:26-27, etc. But if all of them are true at the same time, then baptism is just as mandatory as belief is just as mandatory as repentance is just as mandatory as confession of Jesus as Lord.

What was written on the accusation on Jesus' cross? Since all of Scripture is true at the same time, both "the King of the Jews" (belief) and "Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews" in three languages (belief, repentance, confession, and baptism) is also true. You want to say that it is not necessary that the plaque said He was from Nazareth or that it was written in three languages. But that is still Biblical truth, just as repentance, confession, and baptism are required to be saved is still Biblical truth.

 

[TomL]

Every verse in Scripture is true at the same time. You want to make the verses you keep posting be true to the exclusion of 1 Pet 3:21, Acts 2:38, John 3:5, Gal 3:26-27, Eph 5:26-27, etc. But if all of them are true at the same time, then baptism is just as mandatory as belief is just as mandatory as repentance is just as mandatory as confession of Jesus as Lord.

What was written on the accusation on Jesus' cross? Since all of Scripture is true at the same time, both "the King of the Jews" (belief) and "Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews" in three languages (belief, repentance, confession, and baptism) is also true. You want to say that it is not necessary that the plaque said He was from Nazareth or that it was written in three languages. But that is still Biblical truth, just as repentance, confession, and baptism are required to be saved is still Biblical truth.

Nope those are true also

There is no verse however which states you cannot be saved without water baptism

As I noted there are many verses your theology must deny

 

[dwight92070]

Mark 1:1 "THE BEGINNING OF THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST, THE SON OF GOD. The gospel of Jesus Christ IS the New Covenant. Mark tells us here when it began. Right at the BEGINNING of his gospel, with the prophecy of John the Baptist being fulfulled. Not over 3 1/2 years later, when Christ was crucified. It is true that without the shedding of Christ's blood, the New Covenant could not exist at all, but God didn't have to wait for that to begin His New Covenant. Remember, in God's mind and wisdom, "the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world." Rev. 13:8. Hebrews 9:27 is correct that if Jesus had not died for the sins of mankind, there could not be any new covenant. But God knew way back in Genesis 3:15 that Jesus would crush Satan's head on the cross and purchase our salvation.
The kingdom of God was "at hand". How near to us is our hand?
Jesus said, "But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you (or is in your midst)". Matthew 12:28
So the kingdom of God was not delayed until the death of Jesus. Jesus brought it with Him - He brought the New Covenant with Him.

Galatians 4:4-5 DOES NOT SAY that "Jesus lived his whole life under the Old Covenant". So why did you misquote, and therefore misinterpret those verses? It says that He was "born under the Law, SO THAT HE MIGHT REDEEM THOSE WHO WERE UNDER THE LAW."
Please explain how Jesus could redeem who were under the Law, if He Himself was still bound to the Law?
You are greatly mistaken.

 

[Doug Brents]

Nope those are true also

There is no verse however which states you cannot be saved without water baptism

As I noted there are many verses your theology must deny

Tom, your weak assault on the truth does not change anything. I have acknowledged that those verses you quoted (repeatedly) are true, but they do not invalidate other Scripture that tells us more of what is required to receive salvation.

Yes, John 3:5 tells us that we cannot be saved unless we are born again through both the Spirit and water. And Rom 6:1-7 says that we are born again through baptism (the one and only baptism in the NT Church: water) as verified by 1 Pet 3:21 which says we are saved through water baptism (like the Flood). We cannot be saved unless we are baptized. And this acknowledges ALL Scripture. It does not overlook, exclude, invalidate, or ignore any of what you have said.

 

[Doug Brents]

Mark 1:1 "THE BEGINNING OF THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST, THE SON OF GOD. The gospel of Jesus Christ IS the New Covenant.

No, the Gospel of Jesus Christ is what He did for us to save us. The Gospel of Mark (and the other three Gospels as well) are the story of His dealings with us during His life. He did not complete His work until His death and resurrection, at the end of the four Gospels.

Mark tells us here when it began. Right at the BEGINNING of his gospel, with the prophecy of John the Baptist being fulfulled.

No, he tells us that the beginning of the end of the Old Covenant, and the runup to the beginning of the New Covenant began with the fulfillment of the prophecy about John.

Not over 3 1/2 years later, when Christ was crucified. It is true that without the shedding of Christ's blood, the New Covenant could not exist at all, but God didn't have to wait for that to begin His New Covenant.

Yes, He says so Himself when He says that a covenant is not in force until the death of the one who made it. The New Covenant was not in force, it was not a valid "last will and testament", until the death of the testator: Jesus.

Remember, in God's mind and wisdom, "the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world." Rev. 13:8.

Yes, His sacrifice was planned for from before Creation. But it did not happen until He was on the cross in His 33 year of life. He came "in the fullness of time". His death had to happen before the New Covenant was valid.

Hebrews 9:27 is correct that if Jesus had not died for the sins of mankind, there could not be any new covenant. But God knew way back in Genesis 3:15 that Jesus would crush Satan's head on the cross and purchase our salvation.
The kingdom of God was "at hand". How near to us is our hand?

The phrase "at hand" means "is coming soon". It is close, but it is not here yet. All through John's and Jesus' ministry, the Kingdom was still to come, it was not here yet. But after His resurrection, the Kingdom was no longer "at hand" but was here now.

Jesus said, "But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you (or is in your midst)". Matthew 12:28
So the kingdom of God was not delayed until the death of Jesus. Jesus brought it with Him - He brought the New Covenant with Him.

Jesus came to bring the Kingdom of God, and He was the King. So the Kingdom, the Kingship, the ruler of the Kingdom was there at that point. But the New Covenant did not start until after His death.

Galatians 4:4-5 DOES NOT SAY that "Jesus lived his whole life under the Old Covenant". So why did you misquote, and therefore misinterpret those verses? It says that He was "born under the Law, SO THAT HE MIGHT REDEEM THOSE WHO WERE UNDER THE LAW."
Please explain how Jesus could redeem who were under the Law, if He Himself was still bound to the Law?
You are greatly mistaken.

He was bound to the Law until the Law was fulfilled. As long as He lived, He could still have sinned and therefore broken the Law, leaving it unfulfilled. But just as He was dying, He declared, "It is finished." He had accomplished the complete fulfillment of the Law, and therein completed all the requirements of the Old covenant, making it obsolete. And in His blood the New Covenant was ratified and brought into effect.

 

[dwight92070]

Of course you are still wrong. You can't get around the fact that Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are the BEGINNING of the New Testament, NOT a continuation of the Old Testament. If that were true, then those books would be after Malachi, at the very end of the Old Testament.

Jesus was never bound to the Law. His parent's were, so He was born under the Law, but He Himself was Lord of the Law, and He brought a new Law, the Law of Christ. He said He was Lord of the Sabbath, so obviously He was never bound by the Sabbath, He was always Lord over it. Even so, He was Lord, not only of all of Moses' Law, but of Moses Himself.

Moses gave Israel the Law from the mountain. Moses showed them how they were to live.
Christ gave Israel the Law of Christ from the sermon on the mount. Christ showed Christians how we are to live, NOT according to the Law of Moses, but according to the Law of Christ

If the lifetime of Jesus was still under the Old Covenant, then the commandments of Jesus during His lifetime would be strictly Old Covenant commandments. But He gave many NEW commandments because He was bringing them a New Covenant.
He said, "Therefore every scribe who has become a disciple of the kingdom of heaven is like a head of a household, who brings out of his treasure things NEW and OLD." Matthew 13:52
Some of the scribes believed in Him. If He had not brought New Covenant teaching to them, then they would have NOTHING NEW to give their people, only Old Covenant teaching.
If the New Covenant of Jesus did not begin until His death, then how could Jesus teach them ANY NEW COVENANT principles, since He was gone?
The truth is that His whole mininstry was NEW COVENANT TEACHING.

 

[TomL]

Tom, your weak assault on the truth does not change anything. I have acknowledged that those verses you quoted (repeatedly) are true, but they do not invalidate other Scripture that tells us more of what is required to receive salvation.

Yes, John 3:5 tells us that we cannot be saved unless we are born again through both the Spirit and water. And Rom 6:1-7 says that we are born again through baptism (the one and only baptism in the NT Church: water) as verified by 1 Pet 3:21 which says we are saved through water baptism (like the Flood). We cannot be saved unless we are baptized. And this acknowledges ALL Scripture. It does not overlook, exclude, invalidate, or ignore any of what you have said.

LOL

You deny multiple verses and you want to talk about a weak reply

John 3:14–15 (LEB) — 14 And just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, thus it is necessary that the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 so that everyone who believes in him will have eternal life.”

John 3:16 (LEB) — 16 For in this way God loved the world, so that he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but will have eternal life.

John 3:36 (LEB) — 36 The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who disobeys the Son will not see life—but the wrath of God remains on him.

John 5:24 (LEB) — 24 Truly, truly I say to you that the one who hears my word and who believes the one who sent me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

John 6:40 (LEB) — 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks at the Son and believes in him would have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

John 6:47 (LEB) — 47 Truly, truly I say to you, the one who believes has eternal life.

Acts 10:43 (LEB) — 43 To this one all the prophets testify, that through his name everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins.”

Acts 13:39 (LEB) — 39 by this one everyone who believes is justified!

Acts 16:31 (LEB) — 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household!”

Romans 3:22 (LEB) — 22 that is, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. For there is no distinction,

Romans 10:9 (LEB) — 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 10:9 (LEB) — 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

Ephesians 2:8 (LEB) — 8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God;

and BTW there are 3 or 4 possible interpretations for John 3:3

You will note it does not say born of water baptism

and you will further note no mention of water in the following verses

John 3:6–8 (KJV 1900) — 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Being born of the Spirit saves

1 Corinthians 12:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

 

[dwight92070]

Doug, you say that since Jesus lived during the law, and under the law, therefore there were no benefits of the New Covenant until He died. How untrue. That's like saying Abraham had no benefits from Christ's death, since He lived so long ago and Christ had not died yet. Yet Abraham and Moses and Adam ALL benefited from the New Covenant because Jesus died for them, giving them forgiveness of their sins by faith, just like He did for us.
The truth is Jesus was the embodiment of the New Covenant, He lived as Lord of the Old and the New covenant. He was bound by no covenant, but He brought us the New Covenant.

 

[Doug Brents]

Of course you are still wrong.

Of course. That's obvious. Because I said it, and you disagree with everything I say, regardless of how true or obvious it is in Scripture.

You can't get around the fact that Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are the BEGINNING of the New Testament, NOT a continuation of the Old Testament. If that were true, then those books would be after Malachi, at the very end of the Old Testament.

Not in the least. The Gospels tell of the life of the Christ, the Messiah, the King who was prophesied to come. He brought the good news to us, and the Gospels tell of how the New Covenant came to be instituted.

Jesus was never bound to the Law.

Wrong again. Scripture tells us that He was born "under the Law", meaning He was subject to the Law. He could not fulfill it if He was not subject to it.

His parent's were, so He was born under the Law, but He Himself was Lord of the Law, and He brought a new Law, the Law of Christ. He said He was Lord of the Sabbath, so obviously He was never bound by the Sabbath, He was always Lord over it. Even so, He was Lord, not only of all of Moses' Law, but of Moses Himself.

He was Lord of Moses and the Law that Moses brought, but even a king is not above his own law. Notice how the king in Esther was not above the law that he had made, and he could not change the law, he could only write a new law to give the Jews a "fighting chance". The same goes for most every other civilization. God is not above His own Law. If He violated His Law, then He would no longer be Just, or able to Justify those who come to Him through Jesus.

Moses gave Israel the Law from the mountain. Moses showed them how they were to live.

Correction, God gave Israel the Law THROUGH Moses. Moses did not originate the Law in himself.

Christ gave Israel the Law of Christ from the sermon on the mount. Christ showed Christians how we are to live, NOT according to the Law of Moses, but according to the Law of Christ

If the lifetime of Jesus was still under the Old Covenant, then the commandments of Jesus during His lifetime would be strictly Old Covenant commandments. But He gave many NEW commandments because He was bringing them a New Covenant.

Christ laid out the Law of Christ, but it was not in force until it was ratified in His blood, just as the Law of Moses was not ratified until the blood sacrifice was made (Heb 9:18).

He said, "Therefore every scribe who has become a disciple of the kingdom of heaven is like a head of a household, who brings out of his treasure things NEW and OLD." Matthew 13:52
Some of the scribes believed in Him. If He had not brought New Covenant teaching to them, then they would have NOTHING NEW to give their people, only Old Covenant teaching.
If the New Covenant of Jesus did not begin until His death, then how could Jesus teach them ANY NEW COVENANT principles, since He was gone?
The truth is that His whole mininstry was NEW COVENANT TEACHING.

Yes, His whole ministry was teaching the New Covenant that was about to come. But it was not in place yet, because He had not yet died.

Doug, you say that since Jesus lived during the law, and under the law, therefore we have no benefits of the New Covenant until He died. How untrue. That's like saying Abraham had no benefits from Christ's death, since He lived so long ago and Christ had not died yet. Yet Abraham and Moses and Adam ALL benefited from the New Covenant because Jesus died for them, giving them forgiveness of their sins by faith, just like He did for us.

What a stupid, ridiculous, nonsensical argument. Even if the New Covenant started when Jesus was born, Abraham, Moses, and Adam all lived and died long before Jesus was born. So if the New Covenant's coming was required before it could benefit anyone, then Adam, Abraham, and Moses were out of luck. But that is not how it works. Jesus' death covers the sins of all the world, from Adam to Judgement. The benefits of the New Covenant began when Jesus died, and they applied to those who lived before He lived, just as surely as they apply to you and me today. But it is the how we come to benefit from His sacrifice that changed from the Old Covenant to the New Covenant.

The truth is Jesus was the embodiment of the New Covenant, He lived as Lord of the Old and the New covenant. He was bound by no covenant, but He brought us the New Covenant.

If He was not bound to the Old Covenant, then He could not have been our kinsman (Heb 2:11, 1 Tim 2:5), and He is perfect (Heb 7:26, 1 Pet 2:22), and because He is both He can be our Kinsman Redeemer. If He were not our kinsman (having been one of us, lived as we live, been tempted as we are tempted, and yet sinned not at all), He would not qualify to redeem us as our closest blood relative with the power to make us whole.

 

[Doug Brents]

You deny multiple verses and you want to talk about a weak reply

Nope, no denial of anything other than your false doctrine.

and BTW there are 3 or 4 possible interpretations for John 3:3

"Jesus responded and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless someone is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”"
Let's see, what other possible meanings are there for this verse? Well, you could die physically and be resurrected. But that explanation is corrected by Jesus' statement that what is born of the flesh is flesh, but what is born of Spirit is spirit, and He is not talking about physical rebirth here.
It could also mean that unless someone is born again spiritually they cannot comprehend or understand the Kingdom of God. That is very likely, since it is the Holy Spirit who helps us to understand the Scriptures.
I am sure there are other interpretations possible, but they are immaterial to the context. Unless an individual (not a family or one person in the place of another, but each individual for themselves), being dead in sin, is resurrected by the Holy Spirit through water (baptism), they cannot enter into or understand the Kingdom of God.

You will note it does not say born of water baptism

Irrelevant. It does not need to be said here, because it is said elsewhere in Scripture.

and you will further note no mention of water in the following verses

John 3:6–8 (KJV 1900) — 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Again, irrelevant. It is said elsewhere in Scripture, and doesn't need to be repeated here. It is not Jesus point in this passage to detail everything necessary for salvation under the New Covenant to Nicodemus at this time.

Being born of the Spirit saves

1 Corinthians 12:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Being born of the Spirit only happens when one is also born of water. You are trying to negate John 3:5 and 1 Pet 3:21 by your doctrine. It is during baptism in water that the Holy Spirit brings about our salvation (removal of sin and resurrection/rebirth). This fulfills all Scripture. You have us only listening to the few verses you continually quote (repetition of which is meaningless) to the exclusion of other passages that give us more information. Your doctrine is the doctrine of Satan, and it leaves people unsaved.

 

[dwight92070]

Dwight said: Moses gave Israel the Law from the mountain. Moses showed them how they were to live.

Doug said: Correction, God gave Israel the Law THROUGH Moses. Moses did not originate the Law in himself.

Jesus said: "Did not Moses give you the Law, ...?" John 7:19

What a stupid, ridiculous, nonsensical argument. Now you're even correcting Jesus Himself.

You can't even get that right, so it's no surprise that 95% of everything else you say is wrong.

 

[TomL]

Nope, no denial of anything other than your false doctrine.

Nonsense you deny all these verses

"Jesus responded and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless someone is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”"
Let's see, what other possible meanings are there for this verse? Well, you could die physically and be resurrected. But that explanation is corrected by Jesus' statement that what is born of the flesh is flesh, but what is born of Spirit is spirit, and He is not talking about physical rebirth here.
It could also mean that unless someone is born again spiritually they cannot comprehend or understand the Kingdom of God. That is very likely, since it is the Holy Spirit who helps us to understand the Scriptures.
I am sure there are other interpretations possible, but they are immaterial to the context. Unless an individual (not a family or one person in the place of another, but each individual for themselves), being dead in sin, is resurrected by the Holy Spirit through water (baptism), they cannot enter into or understand the Kingdom of God.

Irrelevant. It does not need to be said here, because it is said elsewhere in Scripture.

Nowhere do read born of water means water baptism

The fact you do not post a verse which states that is telling

Again, irrelevant. It is said elsewhere in Scripture, and doesn't need to be repeated here. It is not Jesus point in this passage to detail everything necessary for salvation under the New Covenant to Nicodemus at this time.

Um you have falsified many verses which state one is saved upon faith with no mention of water baptism

Being born of the Spirit only happens when one is also born of water. You are trying to negate John 3:5 and 1 Pet 3:21 by your doctrine. It is during baptism in water that the Holy Spirit brings about our salvation (removal of sin and resurrection/rebirth). This fulfills all Scripture. You have us only listening to the few verses you continually quote (repetition of which is meaningless) to the exclusion of other passages that give us more information. Your doctrine is the doctrine of Satan, and it leaves people unsaved.

Sorry, that is an assumption of your theology

The gentiles were Spirit baptized without water

The Samaritans were water baptized without Spirit baptism

 

[dwight92070]

The Bible gives us two great eras:

First: The Old Covenant; or the Law and the Prophets; or simply, the Law
Second: The New Covenant; or the Kingdom of God; or simply, the Gospel.

These two grand divisions of the Bible are clearly marked and separated, the one from the other, by the long stretch of time that intervened between them, there being a period of four hundred years between the last Book of the Old Testament and the first events (Luke 1) recorded in the New.

Since Jesus was crucified in around 30 A.D., the Old Covenant ended in approximately 4 B.C., and the New Covenant began at that same time.