Acts 22:16 Paul's salvation

[dwight92070]

Dwight, the way you said it makes it sound like the Law originated with Moses. The Law did not originate with Moses, nor was Moses responsible for showing Israel how to live. Yes, Moses gave the Law to Israel, that God had given to him. But Moses received the Law from God before he gave it to Israel. The context of John 7:19 is of Jesus authenticating His message as being from God, not from Himself. He does not then change gears and give Moses credit for originating the Law. He is saying that even Moses did not originate the Law that he gave to the people, and Jesus is saying He is not the origin of the message He is bringing; He is giving credit to the Father.

Duhhhh.

 

[TomL]

The fact that you are blind to the Scriptures does not change what they say. You cannot enter the Kingdom of God unless you are born again of water and the Spirit (John 3:5). You are born again in baptism (Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14). Baptism requires water (1 Pet 3:21, Acts 8:36).

The fact is you did not produce a verse which states born of the water means water baptism

Water is not mentioned in Romans 6 or Col 1

You attempt to prove your assumption with other assumptions

No Tom. I have cited and quoted the passages many, many times. You ignore Scripture, so I felt no need to re-cite the Scriptures to you.

That is a laugh when you ignored all these

John 3:14–15 (LEB) — 14 And just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, thus it is necessary that the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 so that everyone who believes in him will have eternal life.”

John 3:16 (LEB) — 16 For in this way God loved the world, so that he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but will have eternal life.

John 3:36 (LEB) — 36 The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who disobeys the Son will not see life—but the wrath of God remains on him.

John 5:24 (LEB) — 24 Truly, truly I say to you that the one who hears my word and who believes the one who sent me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

John 6:40 (LEB) — 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks at the Son and believes in him would have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

John 6:47 (LEB) — 47 Truly, truly I say to you, the one who believes has eternal life.

Acts 10:43 (LEB) — 43 To this one all the prophets testify, that through his name everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins.”

Acts 13:39 (LEB) — 39 by this one everyone who believes is justified!

Acts 16:31 (LEB) — 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household!”

Romans 3:22 (LEB) — 22 that is, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. For there is no distinction,

Romans 10:9 (LEB) — 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 10:9 (LEB) — 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

Ephesians 2:8 (LEB) — 8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God;

No falsification at all. We are indeed saved when we exhibit the faith that God demands. Baptism is an act of faith that God demands before He gives His gift of salvation. No faith = no salvation. No baptism = no salvation. No baptism = no faith. If you do not do what God says will result in you receiving His gift, then you don't really have faith in Him.

Sorry Faith can exist without water baptism

And it can be exhibited by other than water baptism

Finally the verses quoted which you ignore say nothing at all about water baptism

Nope, not an assumption of anything. That is what the Scripture says.

No, they received miraculous empowerment from the Spirit. The Spirit falling on them in power before they believed the Gospel, before they repented, before they confessed Jesus as their Lord, and before they were baptized did not remove their sins.

Sorry the texts state they received the Spirit

Acts 10:47 (LEB) — 47 “Surely no one can withhold the water for these people to be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit as we also did!”

Acts 15:8–9 (LEB) — 8 And God, who knows the heart, testified to them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he also did to us. 9 And he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

It is the Holy Spirit given and received

and as a result their heart was cleaned

The Samaritans had already received the indwelling of the Spirit when they were baptized, but they had not received miraculous empowerment from Him until the Apostles laid hands on them.

Sorry scripture denies that

Acts 8:14–17 (LEB) — 14 Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, 15 who went down and prayed for them so that they would receive the Holy Spirit. 16 (For he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17 Then they placed their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit.

You are denying scripture to posit your theology

The gentiles received the spirit before water baptism

and the Samaritans after they were water baptized

 

[Doug Brents]

Duhhhh.

Since that is so obvious, why are you saying that when I said that before that I was wrong? Get your story straight before you accuse me of being wrong 95% of the time.

 

[Doug Brents]

The fact is you did not produce a verse which states born of the water means water baptism

Water is not mentioned in Romans 6 or Col 1

You attempt to prove your assumption with other assumptions

Greek is not mentioned in Mark 15:26, but we know that the plaque over Jesus' head was written in Greek, Latin, and Hebrew because of John 19:19. It does not matter that water is not mentioned in Rom 6 or Col 2. What matters is that both of those passages state that we are saved, forgiven, cleansed of sin, and given new life in Christ through baptism. And there is only one baptism in the NT Church (Eph 4:5-6), and the baptism in which we are saved is in water (1 Pet 3:21, Acts 8:36), and is performed by man (Matt 28:19, Mark 16:16).

That is a laugh when you ignored all these

Sorry Faith can exist without water baptism

And it can be exhibited by other than water baptism

Finally the verses quoted which you ignore say nothing at all about water baptism

Nope, I didn't ignore any verses. Faith does indeed exist without water baptism. But the faith that brings about salvation does not. The faith that brings about salvation MUST conform to what God says will bring about reception of His gift.

Could Naaman have dipped only 6 times and been cured of leprosy? Or could he have gone and dipped in the Red Sea instead of Jordan? Or could he have just sponged off 7 times instead of dipping all the way under?

Or could the Israelites have marched only half way around the city of Jericho, or just charged the walls straight off, or marched only once on the seventh day?

You see, it is not just water baptism that constitutes faith, but it is doing what God says that constitutes faith.

Sorry the texts state they received the Spirit

Acts 10:47 (LEB) — 47 “Surely no one can withhold the water for these people to be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit as we also did!”

Acts 15:8–9 (LEB) — 8 And God, who knows the heart, testified to them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he also did to us. 9 And he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

It is the Holy Spirit given and received

and as a result their heart was cleaned

You are reading into the Text what you want to find there. If they had been saved when the Spirit fell on them, then water baptism would have been redundant. But as Jesus said, they had to be born of both the Spirit AND water, or they were not reborn into Christ.

Sorry scripture denies that

Acts 8:14–17 (LEB) — 14 Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, 15 who went down and prayed for them so that they would receive the Holy Spirit. 16 (For he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17 Then they placed their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit.

You are denying scripture to posit your theology

The gentiles received the spirit before water baptism

and the Samaritans after they were water baptized

Again, you are reading into the Scripture what you want to find there, not reading what we are told. These men had been baptized into Christ, therefore they had the indwelling of the Spirit. They did not have the visible, miraculous, powerful working of the Spirit upon them, but they did have the indwelling of the Spirit within them. The Gentiles received miraculous empowerment before baptism, and the Samaritans received miraculous empowerment after baptism, but both of them received the indwelling of the Spirit at the same time: when they were baptized in water into Christ.

 

[dwight92070]

Duhhhh.

The way I said it was the same way Jesus said it. But then, you had to disagree about something.

 

[Doug Brents]

The way I said it was the same way Jesus said it. But then, you had to disagree about something.

But the way you said it did not mean the same thing as the way He said it. I am not disputing what Jesus said. I am disputing the meaning you interpret out of what He said. He did not say that Moses originated the Law; he said Moses passed them the Law from God.

 

[TomL]

Greek is not mentioned in Mark 15:26, but we know that the plaque over Jesus' head was written in Greek, Latin, and Hebrew because of John 19:19. It does not matter that water is not mentioned in Rom 6 or Col 2. What matters is that both of those passages state that we are saved, forgiven, cleansed of sin, and given new life in Christ through baptism.

Spirit baptism

hello

1 Corinthians 12:13 (LEB) — 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free persons, and all were made to drink one Spirit.

Without the spirit you are none of his

Romans 8:9 (LEB) — 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, this person does not belong to him.

And there is only one baptism in the NT Church (Eph 4:5-6), and the baptism in which we are saved is in water (1 Pet 3:21, Acts 8:36), and is performed by man (Matt 28:19, Mark 16:16).

One baptism which places us in Christ

1 Corinthians 12:13 (LEB) — 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free persons, and all were made to drink one Spirit.

Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

and the context of the verse you quote

Ephesians 4:3–6 (LEB) — 3 being eager to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace; 4 one body and one Spirit (just as also you were called with one hope of your calling), 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in all.

references the spirit and the body

it is 1cor 12:13 which relates the spirit and the body Spirit baptism placing us in the body

otherwise

Hebrews 6:2 (LEB) — 2 teaching about baptisms and laying on of hands, and resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment.

there are plural baptisms

Nope, I didn't ignore any verses. Faith does indeed exist without water baptism. But the faith that brings about salvation does not. The faith that brings about salvation MUST conform to what God says will bring about reception of His gift.

You ignored many

all noted salvation apart from water baptism

John 3:14–15 (LEB) — 14 And just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, thus it is necessary that the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 so that everyone who believes in him will have eternal life.”

John 3:16 (LEB) — 16 For in this way God loved the world, so that he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but will have eternal life.

John 3:36 (LEB) — 36 The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who disobeys the Son will not see life—but the wrath of God remains on him.

John 5:24 (LEB) — 24 Truly, truly I say to you that the one who hears my word and who believes the one who sent me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

John 6:40 (LEB) — 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks at the Son and believes in him would have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

John 6:47 (LEB) — 47 Truly, truly I say to you, the one who believes has eternal life.

Acts 10:43 (LEB) — 43 To this one all the prophets testify, that through his name everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins.”

Acts 13:39 (LEB) — 39 by this one everyone who believes is justified!

Acts 16:31 (LEB) — 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household!”

Romans 3:22 (LEB) — 22 that is, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. For there is no distinction,

Romans 10:9 (LEB) — 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 10:9 (LEB) — 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

Ephesians 2:8 (LEB) — 8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God;

 

[dwight92070]

But the way you said it did not mean the same thing as the way He said it. I am not disputing what Jesus said. I am disputing the meaning you interpret out of what He said. He did not say that Moses originated the Law; he said Moses passed them the Law from God.

So now you can read my mind? You know what I meant when I used the exact same phrase that Jesus said?

Dwight "Moses gave Israel the Law" As I said, duhhh, I'm not stupid. You don't need to school me about how God gave the law to Moses and then he gave it to Israel. But I'm also not ignorant of what Jesus said in His question and so I was NOT incorrect in using it the way I did - I was using the exact same wording that Jesus used - Moses gave Israel the Law vs. Did not Moses give you the law?

Leave it to a nit-picking legalist to find something to disagree with, even with something as easy to understand as this.

I never once said nor did I imply that the Law originated with Moses. I've been a Bible reading believer for 54 years and you suggest that I didn't even know that Moses did not originate the Law? What a stupid, ridiculous, nonsensical argument!

 

[dwight92070]

Since that is so obvious, why are you saying that when I said that before that I was wrong? Get your story straight before you accuse me of being wrong 95% of the time.

I'm getting my story straight - you are wrong 99% of the time.

 

[Doug Brents]

Spirit baptism

hello

1 Corinthians 12:13 (LEB) — 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free persons, and all were made to drink one Spirit.

Without the spirit you are none of his

Romans 8:9 (LEB) — 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, this person does not belong to him.

You are correct, without the Spirit you are none of His, but without water you are not His either. He said both are required for rebirth, and you want to exclude half of the requirement. The baptism of the Spirit takes place during water baptism. What you want to call "Spirit baptism" that you find in Acts 8 and 10 were unique events. They do not depict salvation in the falling of the Spirit (in power). They depict salvation in water baptism (just as the rest of the NT says happens), and the extraordinary empowerment of the Spirit outside of salvation.

One baptism which places us in Christ

1 Corinthians 12:13 (LEB) — 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free persons, and all were made to drink one Spirit.

Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

As John 3:5, 1 Pet 3:21, Rom 6:1-7, and Col 2:11-14 all depict the Holy Spirit does the action of removing our sins and uniting us with Jesus' death and resurrection during water baptism. He does not do so outside of water baptism. So the one baptism that places us in Christ requires both the Spirit AND water. Certainly we cannot be in Christ without the Spirit, but we also cannot be in Christ without water (because God says so).

and the context of the verse you quote

Ephesians 4:3–6 (LEB) — 3 being eager to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace; 4 one body and one Spirit (just as also you were called with one hope of your calling), 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in all.

references the spirit and the body

it is 1cor 12:13 which relates the spirit and the body Spirit baptism placing us in the body

otherwise

Hebrews 6:2 (LEB) — 2 teaching about baptisms and laying on of hands, and resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment.

there are plural baptisms

Sure there are many baptisms: water, Spirit, fire, cloud, Red Sea, language, culture, etc. But there is only one that has significance for the NT Church; the one that places a person "in Christ" and brings salvation. That "one baptism" requires water (John 3:5, 1 Pet 3:21, Acts 8:36). Without water you don't have salvation.

You ignored many

all noted salvation apart from water baptism

John 3:14–15 (LEB) — 14 And just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, thus it is necessary that the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 so that everyone who believes in him will have eternal life.”

John 3:16 (LEB) — 16 For in this way God loved the world, so that he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but will have eternal life.

John 3:36 (LEB) — 36 The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who disobeys the Son will not see life—but the wrath of God remains on him.

John 5:24 (LEB) — 24 Truly, truly I say to you that the one who hears my word and who believes the one who sent me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

John 6:40 (LEB) — 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks at the Son and believes in him would have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

John 6:47 (LEB) — 47 Truly, truly I say to you, the one who believes has eternal life.

Acts 10:43 (LEB) — 43 To this one all the prophets testify, that through his name everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins.”

Acts 13:39 (LEB) — 39 by this one everyone who believes is justified!

Acts 16:31 (LEB) — 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household!”

Romans 3:22 (LEB) — 22 that is, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. For there is no distinction,

Romans 10:9 (LEB) — 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 10:9 (LEB) — 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

Ephesians 2:8 (LEB) — 8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God;

No, these passages DO NOT depict salvation apart from water baptism. They all say that we are saved through faith. And faith that brings salvation is not real (and thus cannot bring salvation) without repentance, confession of Jesus as Lord, and baptism in water. If any of these are excluded then you do not have faith and faithful obedience of Jesus, who is the ONLY provider of salvation. If we don't come to Him as He says we must come to Him, then we do not receive the gift He offers.

 

[TomL]

You are correct, without the Spirit you are none of His, but without water you are not His either. He said both are required for rebirth, and you want to exclude half of the requirement. The baptism of the Spirit takes place during water baptism. What you want to call "Spirit baptism" that you find in Acts 8 and 10 were unique events. They do not depict salvation in the falling of the Spirit (in power). They depict salvation in water baptism (just as the rest of the NT says happens), and the extraordinary empowerment of the Spirit outside of salvation.

Sorry nowhere do we read without water baptism you are none of his

It is the presense of the Spirit not water which makes one Christ's

And sorry no the baptism en the Holy Spirit is not unique as

1 Corinthians 12:13 (LEB) — 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free persons, and all were made to drink one Spirit.

Drinking, Partaking of the spirit baptizes into the body of Christ, and it is for all who are believers

As John 3:5, 1 Pet 3:21, Rom 6:1-7, and Col 2:11-14 all depict the Holy Spirit does the action of removing our sins and uniting us with Jesus' death and resurrection during water baptism. He does not do so outside of water baptism. So the one baptism that places us in Christ requires both the Spirit AND water. Certainly we cannot be in Christ without the Spirit, but we also cannot be in Christ without water (because God says so).

Sorry you are assuming water baptism once again in Rom 6 and Col 1 and john 3:5 as well

Further you are denying scripture in that

Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

It is trust in Christ which seals a person in Christ by means of the Spiritnot water

You are also denying both Acts 10 and 8

Which shows the Gentiles were baptized en the spirit before water baptism and the Samaritan were not baptized en the Spirit by water baptism

Sure there are many baptisms: water, Spirit, fire, cloud, Red Sea, language, culture, etc. But there is only one that has significance for the NT Church; the one that places a person "in Christ" and brings salvation. That "one baptism" requires water (John 3:5, 1 Pet 3:21, Acts 8:36). Without water you don't have salvation.

Yet only one which makes one Christ and that is of the Holy Spirit

No, these passages DO NOT depict salvation apart from water baptism. They all say that we are saved through faith. And faith that brings salvation is not real (and thus cannot bring salvation) without repentance, confession of Jesus as Lord, and baptism in water. If any of these are excluded then you do not have faith and faithful obedience of Jesus, who is the ONLY provider of salvation. If we don't come to Him as He says we must come to Him, then we do not receive the gift He offers.

Sorry that is nothing but bald denial

John 3:14–15 (LEB) — 14 And just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, thus it is necessary that the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 so that everyone who believes in him will have eternal life.”

John 3:16 (LEB) — 16 For in this way God loved the world, so that he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but will have eternal life.

John 3:36 (LEB) — 36 The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who disobeys the Son will not see life—but the wrath of God remains on him.

John 5:24 (LEB) — 24 Truly, truly I say to you that the one who hears my word and who believes the one who sent me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

John 6:40 (LEB) — 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks at the Son and believes in him would have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

John 6:47 (LEB) — 47 Truly, truly I say to you, the one who believes has eternal life.

Acts 10:43 (LEB) — 43 To this one all the prophets testify, that through his name everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins.”

Acts 13:39 (LEB) — 39 by this one everyone who believes is justified!

Acts 16:31 (LEB) — 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household!”

Romans 3:22 (LEB) — 22 that is, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. For there is no distinction,

Romans 10:9 (LEB) — 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 10:9 (LEB) — 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

Ephesians 2:8 (LEB) — 8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God;

proving as I stated your theology requires you to ignore many verses

 

[Jim]

Sorry nowhere do we read without water baptism you are none of his

It is the presense of the Spirit not water which makes one Christ's

And sorry no the baptism en the Holy Spirit is not unique as

1 Corinthians 12:13 (LEB) — 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free persons, and all were made to drink one Spirit.

Drinking, Partaking of the spirit baptizes into the body of Christ, and it is for all who are believers






Sorry you are assuming water baptism once again in Rom 6 and Col 1 and john 3:5 as well

Further you are denying scripture in that

Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

It is trust in Christ which seals a person in Christ by means of the Spiritnot water

You are also denying both Acts 10 and 8

Which shows the Gentiles were baptized en the spirit before water baptism and the Samaritan were not baptized en the Spirit by water baptism



Yet only one which makes one Christ and that is of the Holy Spirit



Sorry that is nothing but bald denial

John 3:14–15 (LEB) — 14 And just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, thus it is necessary that the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 so that everyone who believes in him will have eternal life.”

John 3:16 (LEB) — 16 For in this way God loved the world, so that he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but will have eternal life.

John 3:36 (LEB) — 36 The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who disobeys the Son will not see life—but the wrath of God remains on him.

John 5:24 (LEB) — 24 Truly, truly I say to you that the one who hears my word and who believes the one who sent me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

John 6:40 (LEB) — 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks at the Son and believes in him would have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

John 6:47 (LEB) — 47 Truly, truly I say to you, the one who believes has eternal life.

Acts 10:43 (LEB) — 43 To this one all the prophets testify, that through his name everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins.”

Acts 13:39 (LEB) — 39 by this one everyone who believes is justified!

Acts 16:31 (LEB) — 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household!”

Romans 3:22 (LEB) — 22 that is, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. For there is no distinction,

Romans 10:9 (LEB) — 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 10:9 (LEB) — 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

Ephesians 2:8 (LEB) — 8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God;

proving as I stated your theology requires you to ignore many verses

How can you say you believe and not do what He says? From John the Baptism onward, baptism (immersion) is always in water, no matter the net result or outcome of the act of being baptized.

And besides, not one of the verses you posted says that baptism is not in water. There is not a verse in the NT that says that baptism is not in water.

 

[Doug Brents]

Sorry nowhere do we read without water baptism you are none of his

It is the presense of the Spirit not water which makes one Christ's

BOTH ARE REQUIRED!! If you do not have both the Spirit and water, you are not born again (John 3:5), and you must be born again in order to enter the Kingdom of God (be saved). So if you are not reborn through both water and the Spirit you cannot be saved.

And sorry no the baptism en the Holy Spirit is not unique as

1 Corinthians 12:13 (LEB) — 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free persons, and all were made to drink one Spirit.

Drinking, Partaking of the spirit baptizes into the body of Christ, and it is for all who are believers

Baptism "en" the Holy Spirit happens during water baptism. It is in water baptism that the Holy Spirit takes the action of removing our sins, resurrecting us with Christ, adding us to the body of Christ, giving us a pure conscience, making us pure and spotless (Gal 3:26-26, Eph 5:26-27, Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14, 1 Pet 3:21).

Sorry you are assuming water baptism once again in Rom 6 and Col 1 and john 3:5 as well

Further you are denying scripture in that

Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

It is trust in Christ which seals a person in Christ by means of the Spirit not water

Trust in Christ does not exist if baptism doesn't happen. It is trust in Christ that brings us to obey Him in the (seemingly) stupid act of being immersed in water. If you don't obey Him then you don't trust Him.

You are also denying both Acts 10 and 8

Which shows the Gentiles were baptized en the spirit before water baptism and the Samaritan were not baptized en the Spirit by water baptism

Those passages do not show that those people were baptized "en" the Spirit. The Samaritans had already been baptized "en" the Holy Spirit when they were baptized in water before John and Peter showed up. The Gentiles were not baptized "en" the Spirit until they were baptized in water after the Spirit fell on them in power.

Yet only one which makes one Christ and that is of the Holy Spirit

Just as Col 2 and Rom 6 and 1 Pet 3 and Acts 8:36 and Eph 5 and Gal 3 all say. It is the same baptism in all of these passages. And since Acts 8 and 1 Pet 3 make it clear that it is water baptism that is in view, during which the Holy Spirit acts, we know that the one baptism in the NT Church requires water AND the Spirit.

Sorry that is nothing but bald denial proving as I stated your theology requires you to ignore many verses

You are deluded, my friend. You think that just because a laundry list of verses that you can quote (many out of context) only mention "belief" (faith) that "belief" is all that is necessary. But as I just noted, "belief" is really "faith", and faith requires actions of obedience or it is not really faith; it is dead, worthless, meaningless, powerless, impotent, irrelevant, and cannot save. Jesus asks the rhetorical question, "Why do you call me Lord, but do not what I say?" (Luke 6:46). In other words, if you don't do what He says, then He really isn't your Lord. If He were your Lord, then you would do what He says.

 

[TomL]

BOTH ARE REQUIRED!! If you do not have both the Spirit and water, you are not born again (John 3:5), and you must be born again in order to enter the Kingdom of God (be saved). So if you are not reborn through both water and the Spirit you cannot be saved.

Sorry but you are assuming water baptism again

It failed to give the Samaritans the Spirit and the gentiles received the Spirit without water

Reception of the spirit showed they were Christs in one case, and failure to receive the Spirit shows they were not yet sealed in Christ in the other

Baptism "en" the Holy Spirit happens during water baptism. It is in water baptism that the Holy Spirit takes the action of removing our sins, resurrecting us with Christ, adding us to the body of Christ, giving us a pure conscience, making us pure and spotless (Gal 3:26-26, Eph 5:26-27, Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14, 1 Pet 3:21).

Sorry, the gentiles were baptized en the spirit before water baptism

The Samaritans were not baptized en the Spirit even though water baptized

Trust in Christ does not exist if baptism doesn't happen. It is trust in Christ that brings us to obey Him in the (seemingly) stupid act of being immersed in water. If you don't obey Him then you don't trust Him.

Nonsense

One who is not trusting in Christ has no grounds to be water baptized

Acts 8:36–38 (KJV 1900) — 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

Those passages do not show that those people were baptized "en" the Spirit. The Samaritans had already been baptized "en" the Holy Spirit when they were baptized in water before John and Peter showed up. The Gentiles were not baptized "en" the Spirit until they were baptized in water after the Spirit fell on them in power.

Sorry that is false in both cases

Acts 8:14–16 (KJV 1900) — 14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

The Spirit had not fallen on them

Acts 11:15–16 (KJV 1900) — 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

The Spirit falling on them reminded Peter that Jesus baptizes en the holy Ghost

Your claims are clearly contrary to scripture

 

[TomL]

How can you say you believe and not do what He says? From John the Baptism onward, baptism (immersion) is always in water, no matter the net result or outcome of the act of being baptized.

And besides, not one of the verses you posted says that baptism is not in water. There is not a verse in the NT that says that baptism is not in water.

No one stated you should not be water baptized. There is however a greater baptism performed by one greater than man with a substance greater than water

There are references to baptism en the Spirit

That is a baptism with the Holy Spirit not water

There is reference to a cup baptism

A baptism with fire

 

[Doug Brents]

Sorry but you are assuming water baptism again

It failed to give the Samaritans the Spirit and the gentiles received the Spirit without water

Reception of the spirit showed they were Christs in one case, and failure to receive the Spirit shows they were not yet sealed in Christ in the other

You see the indwelling everywhere that the Spirit is mentioned, but He does not always indwell those who are empowered by Him.

Sorry, the gentiles were baptized en the spirit before water baptism

Nope, they received empowerment (tongues and praise) from Him before they were baptized in water and received His indwelling presence.

The Samaritans were not baptized en the Spirit even though water baptized

Nope, they already had His indwelling presence, and were empowered by Him when the Apostles laid hands on them.

Nonsense

One who is not trusting in Christ has no grounds to be water baptized

Certainly one who does not trust Christ does not get baptized, but that is not what I said. I said that one who says they trust Christ but do not get baptized really don't trust Him. It takes obedience to the one we would call Lord to make Him our Lord. If we don't obey Him, we have no business calling Him Lord.

Acts 8:36–38 (KJV 1900) — 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

Most of the most reliable original texts do not include verse 37, but even so, if the eunuch did not believe that Jesus was the Christ and the Son of God, then he did not qualify to have his sins removed in baptism.

Sorry that is false in both cases

Acts 8:14–16 (KJV 1900) — 14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

The Spirit had not fallen on them

No, the Spirit had not fallen on them, but He did indwell them. Vastly different functions of the Spirit.

Acts 11:15–16 (KJV 1900) — 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

The Spirit falling on them reminded Peter that Jesus baptizes en the holy Ghost

The Spirit falling on them told Peter, and the other Jews with him, that the Gentiles were to be accepted into the Church as equals with the Jews. It did not in any was indicate their salvation at that moment.

Your claims are clearly contrary to scripture

No sir, my claims are contrary to your twisted and improper interpretation of Scripture. But my claims align directly with what the Scriptures say.

No one stated you should not be water baptized. There is however a greater baptism performed by one greater than man with a substance greater than water

No, there is only one baptism in the NT Church, and it requires that one be immersed in water.

There are references to baptism en the Spirit

That is a baptism with the Holy Spirit not water

No, it requires both water and the Spirit.

There is reference to a cup baptism

A baptism with fire

These are ancillary references that do not pertain to salvation from sin. The one baptism that is significant to the NT Church, the baptism in which we are saved, requires both the Spirit and water.

 

[TomL]

You see the indwelling everywhere that the Spirit is mentioned, but He does not always indwell those who are empowered by Him.

No just where it is stated the Spirit was received or not received

You ignore this

Nope, they received empowerment (tongues and praise) from Him before they were baptized in water and received His indwelling presence.

Sorry that is not stated anywhere

I noted the gentiles were baptized en the spirit before water baptism

just like Peter

Acts 11:15–17 (LEB) — 15 And as I was beginning to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them, just as also on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 Therefore if God gave them the same gift as also to us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to be able to hinder God?”

The Holy Spirit falling on them as evidence by their speaking in tongues was evidence they had been baptized en the Spirit

Acts 10:45–47 (LEB) — 45 And those believers from the circumcision who had accompanied Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles, 46 for they heard them speaking in tongues and glorifying God. Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can withhold the water for these people to be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit as we also did!”

Tongues were clearly the evidence they had been baptized en the spirit

you are denying scripture again

Nope, they already had His indwelling presence, and were empowered by Him when the Apostles laid hands on them.

Denying scripture again

Acts 8:14–17 (LEB) — 14 Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, 15 who went down and prayed for them so that they would receive the Holy Spirit. 16 (For he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17 Then they placed their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit.

The Holy spirit had not fallen on any of them so they were not baptized en the Spirit

They had not received the Spirit as the text plainly states

Certainly one who does not trust Christ does not get baptized, but that is not what I said. I said that one who says they trust Christ but do not get baptized really don't trust Him. It takes obedience to the one we would call Lord to make Him our Lord. If we don't obey Him, we have no business calling Him Lord.

sorry trust precedes, exists before one is water baptism or they are not a candidate for it

Acts 8:36–37 (KJV 1900) — 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Most of the most reliable original texts do not include verse 37, but even so, if the eunuch did not believe that Jesus was the Christ and the Son of God, then he did not qualify to have his sins removed in baptism.

You just proved trust precedes water baptism and seeing that is so then

Ephesians 1:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

one is sealed in Christ before water baptism

No, the Spirit had not fallen on them, but He did indwell them. Vastly different functions of the Spirit.

Sorry you have not shown that

The baptism en the holy ghost places one in Christ- his body 1 cor 12:13

and the falling of the holy ghost confirmed for Peter Christ promise to baptize en the Holy ghost

The Spirit falling on them told Peter, and the other Jews with him, that the Gentiles were to be accepted into the Church as equals with the Jews. It did not in any was indicate their salvation at that moment.

Um this is scripture' showing what their baptism en the Holy Ghost meant

Acts 10:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Acts 11:15–18 (KJV 1900) — 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Acts 15:7–9 (KJV 1900) — 7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

No sir, my claims are contrary to your twisted and improper interpretation of Scripture. But my claims align directly with what the Scriptures say.

sorry scripture posted show your claims are false and you must deny many verses to hold to your theology

No, there is only one baptism in the NT Church, and it requires that one be immersed in water.

Nowhere stated

1 Corinthians 12:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

It is spirit baptism which places one in the body of Christ

Ps try to prove your immersion doctrine in a separate thread

 

[Doug Brents]

No just where it is stated the Spirit was received or not received

You ignore this

No, I do not ignore it. But I do properly understand it. Where Acts says they had or had not "received the Spirit" it is not talking about the indwelling of the Spirit. The indwelling of the Spirit occurs when we are baptized into Christ. He removes our sin, unites us to Christ, and moves into the heart of the new creation He makes. It is not an externally visible event. It occurs during water baptism.

Sorry that is not stated anywhere

I noted the gentiles were baptized en the spirit before water baptism

No, they were not. The Spirit fell ON them in power (tongues and praise), but He did not enter into their hearts because they were not new creations yet; they had not been born again.

just like Peter

Acts 11:15–17 (LEB) — 15 And as I was beginning to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them, just as also on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 Therefore if God gave them the same gift as also to us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to be able to hinder God?”

The Holy Spirit falling on them as evidence by their speaking in tongues was evidence they had been baptized en the Spirit

No, it is not. It is evidence that they had received miraculous empowerment from the Spirit.

Acts 10:45–47 (LEB) — 45 And those believers from the circumcision who had accompanied Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles, 46 for they heard them speaking in tongues and glorifying God. Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can withhold the water for these people to be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit as we also did!”

Tongues were clearly the evidence they had been baptized en the spirit

you are denying scripture again

No, it is not. It is evidence that they had received miraculous empowerment from the Spirit.

Denying scripture again

Acts 8:14–17 (LEB) — 14 Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, 15 who went down and prayed for them so that they would receive the Holy Spirit. 16 (For he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17 Then they placed their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit.

The Holy spirit had not fallen on any of them so they were not baptized en the Spirit

They had not received the Spirit as the text plainly states

Wrong again. They had not received miraculous empowerment from the Spirit. But they had received the indwelling of the Spirit, because they were already new creations having been baptized into Christ.

sorry trust precedes, exists before one is water baptism or they are not a candidate for it

Acts 8:36–37 (KJV 1900) — 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

You just proved trust precedes water baptism and seeing that is so then

Ephesians 1:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

one is sealed in Christ before water baptism

No, trust is proven through obedience. If there is no obedience then the trust that you say you have is not real, you are just fooling yourself. If there is no obedience then God is not your Lord. And God doesn't save those whose Lord He is not.

Sorry you have not shown that

The baptism en the holy ghost places one in Christ- his body 1 cor 12:13

and the falling of the holy ghost confirmed for Peter Christ promise to baptize en the Holy ghost

Wrong again. Baptism "en" the Holy Spirit takes place when one is baptized in water (John 3:5, 1 Pet 3:21, Col 2:11-14, Rom 6:1-7, Eph 5:26-27, Gal 3:26-27). Receiving miraculous empowerment from the Spirit is not baptism "en" the Holy Spirit.

Um this is scripture' showing what their baptism en the Holy Ghost meant

Acts 10:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Cornelius had received miraculous empowerment just as the Apostles did.

Acts 11:15–18 (KJV 1900) — 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Acts 15:7–9 (KJV 1900) — 7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Again, the Gentiles demonstrated their living faith through obedience to God's commands in baptism. They were not saved just because the Holy Spirit fell ON (not into) them before they were baptized.

Nowhere stated

ROTFL I have posted many times the Scriptures that say that it is. Just because you deny the truth doesn't stop it from being the truth; it just makes you wrong.

1 Corinthians 12:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

It is spirit baptism which places one in the body of Christ

And Spirit baptism only takes place during water baptism (John 3:5, 1 Pet 3:21, Mark 16:16).

 

[TomL]

No, I do not ignore it.

No actually you do

and your comment proves it

You see the indwelling everywhere that the Spirit is mentioned, but He does not always indwell those who are empowered by Him.

No just where it is stated the Spirit was received or not received

You ignore this

But I do properly understand it. Where Acts says they had or had not "received the Spirit" it is not talking about the indwelling of the Spirit. The indwelling of the Spirit occurs when we are baptized into Christ. He removes our sin, unites us to Christ, and moves into the heart of the new creation He makes. It is not an externally visible event. It occurs during water baptism.

Sorry you have provided not one verse of scripture where the phrase receive the spirit is not speaking of the spirit taking up residence in a person

You have assumed another category of receiving the spirit where nothing but the impartation of a spiritual gift is referenced

No, they were not. The Spirit fell ON them in power (tongues and praise), but He did not enter into their hearts because they were not new creations yet; they had not been born again.

Again no scripture supports your claim.

Jews clearly saw much more in the gentiles reception of the spirit

Acts 10:45–47 (LEB) — 45 And those believers from the circumcision who had accompanied Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles, 46 for they heard them speaking in tongues and glorifying God. Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can withhold the water for these people to be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit as we also did!”

why would reception of a spiritual gift be grounds for baptism

Acts 11:15–18 (LEB) — 15 And as I was beginning to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them, just as also on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 Therefore if God gave them the same gift as also to us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to be able to hinder God?” 18 And when they heard these things, they became silent and praised God, saying, “Then God has granted the repentance leading to life to the Gentiles also!”

Why would it be proof of repentance?

Acts 15:7–9 (LEB) — 7 And after there was much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Men and brothers, you know that in the early days God chose among you through my mouth that the Gentiles should hear the message of the gospel and believe. 8 And God, who knows the heart, testified to them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he also did to us. 9 And he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

No, it is not. It is evidence that they had received miraculous empowerment from the Spirit.

Again totally gratuitous

Sans biblical proof

No, it is not. It is evidence that they had received miraculous empowerment from the Spirit.

Again lacking in any scriptural argumentation

Wrong again. They had not received miraculous empowerment from the Spirit. But they had received the indwelling of the Spirit, because they were already new creations having been baptized into Christ.

assumption which does not appear in the text

Samaritans had not received the spirit

Acts 8:14–17 (LEB) — 14 Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, 15 who went down and prayed for them so that they would receive the Holy Spirit. 16 (For he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17 Then they placed their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit.

rather we see they had not received the spirit without which one does not belong to Christ

No, trust is proven through obedience. If there is no obedience then the trust that you say you have is not real, you are just fooling yourself. If there is no obedience then God is not your Lord. And God doesn't save those whose Lord He is not.

Trust exists before any manifestation of it

Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

Wrong again. Baptism "en" the Holy Spirit takes place when one is baptized in water (John 3:5, 1 Pet 3:21, Col 2:11-14, Rom 6:1-7, Eph 5:26-27, Gal 3:26-27). Receiving miraculous empowerment from the Spirit is not baptism "en" the Holy Spirit.

Again

Acts 11:15–17 (LEB) — 15 And as I was beginning to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them, just as also on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 Therefore if God gave them the same gift as also to us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to be able to hinder God?”

this happened before water baptism and served as grounds for justifiably baptizing the Gentiles with water

Cornelius had received miraculous empowerment just as the Apostles did.

Cornelius was baptised en the spirit

Had the testimony from the spirit He was a believer,

had his heart purified by faith, and had repentance unto life

That was more than receiving a gift

 

[Doug Brents]

No actually you do

and your comment proves it

I properly understand Scripture, instead of perverting it to fit my preconceptions. Where Acts says they had or had not "received the Spirit" it is not talking about the indwelling of the Spirit. The indwelling of the Spirit occurs when we are baptized into Christ. He removes our sin, unites us to Christ, and moves into the heart of the new creation He makes. It is not an externally visible event. It occurs during water baptism.

No just where it is stated the Spirit was received or not received

You ignore this

No, I do not ignore it. I let Scripture correct my interpretation of those passages by reading what is actually said, instead of just picking out the few words that fit my personal interpretation. All who are in Christ have the Holy Spirit indwelling their hearts (Eph 1:13). This is very clear. The Samaritans had been baptized into Christ. Now, whether you believe as I do that they were saved when they were baptized, or if you believe as you say you do that they were saved before they were baptized when they "believed", either way the Samaritans were saved. And because they were saved they had the indwelling of the Spirit before John and Peter were sent from Jerusalem. That cannot be debated. And this proves that the phrase "had not received the Spirit" CANNOT be referring to the indwelling of the Spirit or the salvation of the Samaritans.

Sorry you have provided not one verse of scripture where the phrase receive the spirit is not speaking of the spirit taking up residence in a person

see directly above.

Again no scripture supports your claim.

Jews clearly saw much more in the gentiles reception of the spirit

Acts 10:45–47 (LEB) — 45 And those believers from the circumcision who had accompanied Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles, 46 for they heard them speaking in tongues and glorifying God. Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can withhold the water for these people to be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit as we also did!”

why would reception of a spiritual gift be grounds for baptism

Because in their praise and prophesying, the Gentiles were honoring Jesus as God and Savior. And in doing so they were confessing that Jesus is the Messiah. Confession being one of the requirements for salvation, and being an indication of their repentance (another requirement for salvation), the Gentiles were qualified to receive baptism during which the Holy Spirit removed their sins and united them with Christ.

Acts 11:15–18 (LEB) — 15 And as I was beginning to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them, just as also on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 Therefore if God gave them the same gift as also to us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to be able to hinder God?” 18 And when they heard these things, they became silent and praised God, saying, “Then God has granted the repentance leading to life to the Gentiles also!”

Why would it be proof of repentance?

The Gentiles in Cornelius' house were already devout, God-fearing men (and women). But they needed to know about Jesus because they were now under the New Covenant and needed Jesus to remove their sins. They already had repentant hearts toward God, which is why God sent Cornelius visions about sending for Peter. The Holy Spirit falling on the Gentiles was not a sign of the Gentiles already being saved, but that they were acceptable to God to be brought into the Church. That God had allowed them the same repentance that leads to life that He had already given the Jews.

Acts 15:7–9 (LEB) — 7 And after there was much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Men and brothers, you know that in the early days God chose among you through my mouth that the Gentiles should hear the message of the gospel and believe. 8 And God, who knows the heart, testified to them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he also did to us. 9 And he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

The Gentiles' hearts were cleansed by faith, just as the Jews' hearts were cleansed by faith. And as we have already established, faith is not real if it does not include obedient action.

Again totally gratuitous

Sans biblical proof
Again lacking in any scriptural argumentation

That proof has already been provided, but you ignore the truth.

Trust exists before any manifestation of it

Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

When you believed (demonstrated faith/obeyed the Gospel) you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit. As stated above, this passage proves that the Samaritans already had the indwelling of the Spirit, and all Peter and John gave them was miraculous empowerment of the Spirit.

Again

Acts 11:15–17 (LEB) — 15 And as I was beginning to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them, just as also on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 Therefore if God gave them the same gift as also to us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to be able to hinder God?”

this happened before water baptism and served as grounds for justifiably baptizing the Gentiles with water

The Apostles already had the indwelling of the Spirit on Pentecost when the Spirit fell ON them in fire. They only received miraculous empowerment (speaking in tongues and praise) from the Holy Spirit at that time. A similar (yet backwards) event occurred with Cornelius. He only received miraculous empowerment (tongues and praise) when the Spirit fell ON him, and received the indwelling of the Spirit when he was saved through baptism in water.

Cornelius was baptised en the spirit

Had the testimony from the spirit He was a believer,

had his heart purified by faith, and had repentance unto life

when he was baptized in water.