Actually you have shown you do notI properly understand Scripture, instead of perverting it to fit my preconceptions. Where Acts says they had or had not "received the Spirit" it is not talking about the indwelling of the Spirit. The indwelling of the Spirit occurs when we are baptized into Christ. He removes our sin, unites us to Christ, and moves into the heart of the new creation He makes. It is not an externally visible event. It occurs during water baptism.
Sorry nowhen he was baptized in water.
Sorry, yes.Sorry no
verses you did not addressSorry, yes.
He is referring to what was recorded in Acts 10:44. That was/is not baptism in/with/by the Holy Spirit. Baptism with the Holy Spirit is what Peter spoke about in Acts 2:38. When he heard them speaking in tongues, he realized that God was indicating that they were to be accepted into the kingdom and hence commanded that they be baptized in water for the forgiveness of their sins and to receive the gift of (the indwelling, the baptism in) the Holy Spirit.verses you did not address
Sorry no
Cornelius was baptised en the spirit
Acts 11:15–17 (LEB) — 15 And as I was beginning to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them, just as also on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 Therefore if God gave them the same gift as also to us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to be able to hinder God?”
That is what happened and is recorded in Acts 2:1-4. It is the "filling with" or the "falling on" to empower them for the working of miracles, which in both cases was speaking in tongues and prophesying. That was how God indicated that the Gentiles were to be included in the Kingdom.Had the testimony from the spirit He was a believer,
Acts 15:8 (LEB) — 8 And God, who knows the heart, testified to them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he also did to us.
That was why Peter granted them water baptism for the repentance of their sins and to receive the gift of (the indwelling, the baptism of) the Holy Spirit.Acts 11:16–18 (LEB) — 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 Therefore if God gave them the same gift as also to us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to be able to hinder God?” 18 And when they heard these things, they became silent and praised God, saying, “Then God has granted the repentance leading to life to the Gentiles also!”
All before water baptism
The baptism in 1 Cor 12:13 is water baptism, and it is in water baptism that we receive the indwelling of the Spirit (drink of the one Spirit).Actually you have shown you do not
Yes the indwelling transpires when we are baptized into Christ, but that is a function of the Spirit not water
1 Corinthians 12:13 (LEB) — 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free persons, and all were made to drink one Spirit.
here we have the baptism and the indwelling and the placing in Christ-in his body
Absolutely he was, when he was baptized in water, and not before.Sorry no
Cornelius was baptised en the spirit
Acts 11:15–17 (LEB) — 15 And as I was beginning to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them, just as also on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 Therefore if God gave them the same gift as also to us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to be able to hinder God?”
He was not yet a "believer". He had barely heard the Gospel, had not yet confessed Jesus, and was not baptized; he had not yet obeyed the Gospel.Had the testimony from the spirit He was a believer,
Acts 15:8 (LEB) — 8 And God, who knows the heart, testified to them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he also did to us.
Had repentance UNTO life, but did not have life yet. They had not been reborn because they had not passed through both the Spirit AND water.had his heart purified by faith, and had repentance unto life
Acts 15:8–9 (LEB) — 8 And God, who knows the heart, testified to them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he also did to us. 9 And he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.
Yes, they received miraculous empowerment of the Spirit before they were saved. The Apostles did not receive the indwelling of the Spirit when He fell ON them on Pentecost (they already had the indwelling (John 20:22)), and Cornelius did not receive the indwelling of the Spirit when He fell ON him; he receive the indwelling of the Spirit when he was baptized in water just as all the rest of NT Christ followers do.Acts 11:16–18 (LEB) — 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 Therefore if God gave them the same gift as also to us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to be able to hinder God?” 18 And when they heard these things, they became silent and praised God, saying, “Then God has granted the repentance leading to life to the Gentiles also!”
All before water baptism
you have denied scripture once again
Sorry you are reading your theology into the textThe baptism in 1 Cor 12:13 is water baptism, and it is in water baptism that we receive the indwelling of the Spirit (drink of the one Spirit).
Sorry but Peter clearly disputes youHe is referring to what was recorded in Acts 10:44. That was/is not baptism in/with/by the Holy Spirit. Baptism with the Holy Spirit is what Peter spoke about in Acts 2:38. When he heard them speaking in tongues, he realized that God was indicating that they were to be accepted into the kingdom and hence commanded that they be baptized in water for the forgiveness of their sins and to receive the gift of (the indwelling, the baptism in) the Holy Spirit.
Tom, there is ONLY ONE BAPTISM in the NT Church, and that one baptism MUST include water.Sorry you are reading your theology into the text
1 Corinthians 12:13 (LEB) — 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free persons, and all were made to drink one Spirit.
Here the object of the preposition en is the Spirit not water
You are simply reciting your theology while ignoring scripture
1 Corinthians 12:13 (LEB) — 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free persons, and all were made to drink one Spirit.Tom, there is ONLY ONE BAPTISM in the NT Church, and that one baptism MUST include water.
Man cannot saveThe baptism that saves (Mark 16:16) must be done by man (Matt 28:19, Acts 22:16).
1 Corinthians 12:13 (LEB) — 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free persons, and all were made to drink one Spirit.The baptism that saves must be received by man (Acts 2:38).
Sorry you are reading your theology into the textThe baptism in 1 Cor 12:13 is water baptism, and it is in water baptism that we receive the indwelling of the Spirit (drink of the one Spirit).
Tom, it doesn't matter that there is no mention of water in that verse. Acts 8:36 and 1 Pet 3:21 link the baptism in which we are saved with water. Those verses, as ALL verses of Scripture, are 100% true. This means that the baptism in which we are saved is baptism in water, regardless of what passages talk about baptism but don't mention water. Please, get your head around that fact, because you ceaseless, stupid argument that, "[this or that] verse doesn't mention water" is meaningless.1 Corinthians 12:13 (LEB) — 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free persons, and all were made to drink one Spirit.
no mention of water
So you are claiming that Eph 4:5-6 is a lie? It is not. Sure there are other baptisms that are mentioned in Scripture: fire, cloud, Red Sea, etc., and other baptisms we talke about today: culture, language, training environments (immersive training). But there is only one baptism in which we are saved, and as 1 Pet 3:21 makes clear, that baptism is in water.Hebrews 6:2 (LEB) — 2 teaching about baptisms and laying on of hands, and resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment.
Plural baptisms
Absolutely correct, man cannot save. But baptism is not about saving yourself, or the person you are baptizing (by your own power). Baptism is about surrender to God and His will. He said (basically), if you trust me, then you will do what I say, and I say you must repent (Acts 3:19), publicly and verbally confess me as your Lord (Ron 10:9-10, Matt 10:32), and be baptized in water (John 3:5, Acts 2:38, 1 Pet 3:21, etc.) in order for me to give you the gift of forgiveness and salvation.Man cannot save
God saves those who obey Him (Heb 5:9).God saves those who believe
No Tom, I am not ignoring Scripture. I am properly interpreting Scripture through Scripture without excluding, ignoring, or "sweeping under the rug" any passage of Scripture. You want to base your salvation doctrine on a list of simple passages that don't give you the whole story. You must expand your study to include ALL of Scripture, or you will remain in this false doctrine that you, and so many ministers today, teach.You are simply reciting your theology while ignoring scripture
Actually it does as the en describes the baptizing element or agencyTom, it doesn't matter that there is no mention of water in that verse. Acts 8:36 and 1 Pet 3:21 link the baptism in which we are saved with water. Those verses, as ALL verses of Scripture, are 100% true. This means that the baptism in which we are saved is baptism in water, regardless of what passages talk about baptism but don't mention water. Please, get your head around that fact, because you ceaseless, stupid argument that, "[this or that] verse doesn't mention water" is meaningless.
So you are claiming that Eph 4:5-6 is a lie? It is not. Sure there are other baptisms that are mentioned in Scripture: fire, cloud, Red Sea, etc., and other baptisms we talke about today: culture, language, training environments (immersive training). But there is only one baptism in which we are saved, and as 1 Pet 3:21 makes clear, that baptism is in water.
Absolutely correct, man cannot save. But baptism is not about saving yourself, or the person you are baptizing (by your own power). Baptism is about surrender to God and His will. He said (basically), if you trust me, then you will do what I say, and I say you must repent (Acts 3:19), publicly and verbally confess me as your Lord (Ron 10:9-10, Matt 10:32), and be baptized in water (John 3:5, Acts 2:38, 1 Pet 3:21, etc.) in order for me to give you the gift of forgiveness and salvation.
Yeah, you are.And we know from Matt 28:19 (which is the exact same event as Mark 16:16, dealing with salvation) that MAN (the teacher) must be the one who does the baptizing that saves.
God saves those who obey Him (Heb 5:9).
No Tom, I am not ignoring Scripture. I am properly interpreting Scripture through Scripture without excluding, ignoring, or "sweeping under the rug" any passage of Scripture. You want to base your salvation doctrine on a list of simple passages that don't give you the whole story. You must expand your study to include ALL of Scripture, or you will remain in this false doctrine that you, and so many ministers today, teach.
Tom, it doesn't matter that there is no mention of water in that verse. Acts 8:36 and 1 Pet 3:21 link the baptism in which we are saved with water. Those verses, as ALL verses of Scripture, are 100% true. This means that the baptism in which we are saved is baptism in water, regardless of what passages talk about baptism but don't mention water. Please, get your head around that fact, because you ceaseless, stupid argument that, "[this or that] verse doesn't mention water" is meaningless.
So you are claiming that Eph 4:5-6 is a lie? It is not. Sure there are other baptisms that are mentioned in Scripture: fire, cloud, Red Sea, etc., and other baptisms we talke about today: culture, language, training environments (immersive training). But there is only one baptism in which we are saved, and as 1 Pet 3:21 makes clear, that baptism is in water.
Absolutely correct, man cannot save. But baptism is not about saving yourself, or the person you are baptizing (by your own power). Baptism is about surrender to God and His will. He said (basically), if you trust me, then you will do what I say, and I say you must repent (Acts 3:19), publicly and verbally confess me as your Lord (Ron 10:9-10, Matt 10:32), and be baptized in water (John 3:5, Acts 2:38, 1 Pet 3:21, etc.) in order for me to give you the gift of forgiveness and salvation.
And we know from Matt 28:19 (which is the exact same event as Mark 16:16, dealing with salvation) that MAN (the teacher) must be the one who does the baptizing that saves.
God saves those who obey Him (Heb 5:9).
No Tom, I am not ignoring Scripture. I am properly interpreting Scripture through Scripture without excluding, ignoring, or "sweeping under the rug" any passage of Scripture. You want to base your salvation doctrine on a list of simple passages that don't give you the whole story. You must expand your study to include ALL of Scripture, or you will remain in this false doctrine that you, and so many ministers today, teach.
I guess seeing as there are so many verses which posit salvation leaving out water baptism and his theology requires it; calling them stupid is one way to dismiss them. That is if one is willing to dismiss scriptureDoug, Acts 8:36 does NOT link salvation with water. Since the eunuch WAS saved, he rightly asked to be baptized. You are misinterpreting ALL your go-to verses, which now makes you 100% wrong. The verses that say we can be saved and don't mention baptism - and there are between 100 and 200 of them are 100% true. You can't just go through all of those verses and say, "Well, they really should have said that they needed to be baptized in order to get saved." Wrong! They are TRUE WITHOUT ADDING REQUIREMENTS TO GET SAVED, AS YOU HAVE DONE.
By the way, Tom's arguments are ANYTHING BUT STUPID, even though you suggest they are STUPID.
Regarding Ephesians 4:5-6 You admit there are OTHER BAPTISMS, so are calling those verses a LIE, as you FALSELY ACCUSED TOM OF SAYING?
Actually you are IGNORING those 100 to 200 verses. We NEVER see you quoting those. Why not? By the way, 99% of those verses DO NOT require confession or baptism to receive forgiveness and salvation. But you IGNORE ALL OF THEM. We do not ignore your go-to verses, but you IGNORE ALL OF THESE 100-200 VERSES. So TOM IS CORRECT. YOU DO IGNORE A HUGE SEGMENT OF SCRIPTURE.
You FALSELY INTERPRET Matthew 28:19, which clearly speaks of making disciples first, BEFORE they are baptized. It DOES NOT SAY that baptism is required to become a disciple, which is your FALSE INTERPRETATION. Mark 16:16 DOES NOT SAY THAT HE WHO HAS BELIEVED AND HAS NOT BEEN BAPTIZED SHALL BE LOST. BUT THAT'S HOW YOU TWIST IT TO MAKE IT SOUND LIKE HE SAYS THAT. That's ADDING TO THE SCRIPTURE, WHICH THE SCRIPTURE ITSELF CONDEMNS.
Hebrews 5:9 So which work that James suggests are people to OBEY, in order to be saved? Feeding and clothing the poor? According to your FALSE INTERPRETATION of James 2:15-17, THAT WOULD MEET HIS REQUIREMENT TO SAVE THEM.
Jesus answers that: "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." OOPS, JESUS FORGOT TO TELL THEM THEY MUST ALSO BE BAPTIZED - AND MAKE A CONFESSION - AND OF COURSE, REPENT.
Neither Tom nor I have IGNORED, EXCLUDED, OR SWEPT UNDER THE RUG ANY VERSE. WE HAVE DEALT WITH ALL OF YOUR GO-TO VERSES AND PROVEN THAT YOU TWIST THEM TO MAKE THEM SAY WHAT YOU WANT. You consistently IGNORE, EXCLUDE AND SWEEP UNDER THE RUG ALL 100-200 VERSES, THAT DON'T DEMAND BAPTISM AS A REQUIREMENT FOR SALVATION. Why do you treat much of the Bible that way? MAYBE YOU SHOULD JUST CUT THOSE VERSES OUT OF YOUR BIBLE, SINCE YOU NEVER USE THEM. Maybe you could write your own study Bible - and just leave those verses out? Why should they even be there? You never use them.
Where in Acts 8 do you read that? Answer -- Nowhere, you just made it up to suit your false ideas.Doug, Acts 8:36 does NOT link salvation with water. Since the eunuch WAS saved, he rightly asked to be baptized.
It is you who falsely interpret Matthew 28:19-20, In that passage there is only one imperative verb and that is the Greek word μαθητευσατε fromYou FALSELY INTERPRET Matthew 28:19, which clearly speaks of making disciples first, BEFORE they are baptized. It DOES NOT SAY that baptism is required to become a disciple, which is your FALSE INTERPRETATION.
It certainly does not say "he who has believed but has not been baptized shall be saved", which is what you are trying to claim. There are two conditions connected by the conjunction" and". There is no hierarchical distinction between the two components "believes" and "is baptized". There is the hierarchical distinction made in the next phrase, "whoever does not believe will be condemned". There it is declared that, no matter what else might happen, if one does not believe they will be condemned. Clearly baptizing a non-believer serves no purpose relative to being saved.Mark 16:16 DOES NOT SAY THAT HE WHO HAS BELIEVED AND HAS NOT BEEN BAPTIZED SHALL BE LOST. BUT THAT'S HOW YOU TWIST IT TO MAKE IT SOUND LIKE HE SAYS THAT. That's ADDING TO THE SCRIPTURE, WHICH THE SCRIPTURE ITSELF CONDEMNS.
Romans 10 says that "if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved". Since there are so many verses which posit salvation leaving out confessing with the mouth, Paul was stupid in what he said there.I guess seeing as there are so many verses which posit salvation leaving out water baptism and his theology requires it; calling them stupid is one way to dismiss them. That is if one is willing to dismiss scripture
The Spirit is the active, effective, functional ingredient in baptism, but the baptism He is functional in is water baptism. No other baptism has man as the performer (Matt 28:19), fulfills John 3:5, 1 Pet 3:21, and Eph 5:26-27.Actually it does as the en describes the baptizing element or agency
1 Corinthians 12:13 (LEB) — 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free persons, and all were made to drink one Spirit.
It is the spirit here not water
That interpretation does not agree with ALL Scripture. The baptism in which we are saved must include water because it is in water (like the Flood) baptism that we are saved (1 Pet 3:21), and it is through water and the Word that we are made pure (Gal 3:26-27). And it is man who must do the baptizing in which we are saved (Mark 16:16, Matt 28:19).No I am claiming the context
Ephesians 4:3–6 (LEB) — 3 being eager to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace; 4 one body and one Spirit (just as also you were called with one hope of your calling), 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in all.
unity in the spirit has but one source the Spirit baptizing us into the one body
Certainly not. As I said a post or two ago, there are many baptisms mentioned in the NT, but only one of significance to salvation in the NT Church, and that one baptism must include both water and the Spirit.are you saying this is a lie
Hebrews 6:1–2 (LEB) — 1 Therefore, leaving behind the elementary message about Christ, let us move on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and faith in God, 2 teaching about baptisms and laying on of hands, and resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment.
No, God demands baptism as an act of faith. You continually post these verses that only mention "belief", but keep forgetting that "belief" in EVERY case comes from the Greek word "pistis" which means "faith". Faith/belief is not an internal only, mental only exercise in cognitive acceptance of the truth of who Jesus is and what He did. Faith/belief requires action or it is not real. Faith/belief requires obedience to God or you really don't trust in Him.Except you depend on man to baptize before one can be saved
all who believe on him receive remission of sin
Acts 10:43 (LEB) — 43 To this one all the prophets testify, that through his name everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins.”
Upon faith (the demonstrated trust in God's promises), yes. And that requires obedient action to what He said leads to/results in His giving the gift He promised to give only to those who obey Him.Yeah, you are.
You ignored multiple verses where men arte saved and sealed upon faith
No, he was not baptized "en" the Spirit until he was baptized IN WATER! The falling of the Spirit ON (not into) him was not baptism "en" the Spirit.And ignored the fact the Gentiles were baptized en the spirit as were the Jews in the beginning
Cornelius was baptised en the spirit
Acts 11:15–17 (LEB) — 15 And as I was beginning to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them, just as also on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 Therefore if God gave them the same gift as also to us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to be able to hinder God?”
ANYONE can be empowered by the Spirit, even non-humans. So it is not just "believers" who can be empowered by Him, and His empowering the Gentiles before they were baptized in water is not a sign of their salvation. They were saved/had their sins removed when they were baptized in water after the Spirit fell on them.Had the testimony from the spirit He was a believer,
Acts 15:8 (LEB) — 8 And God, who knows the heart, testified to them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he also did to us.
Unbelievers do not receive the Spirit
That instance of "receiving the Spirit" refers to the indwelling. But very few other references to "receiving the Spirit" (especially in Acts) refer to the indwelling of the Spirit. Most of them in Acts refer to miraculous empowerment.John 7:37–39 (LEB) — 37 Now on the last day of the feast—the great day—Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me, and let him drink, 38 the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’(indwelling) ” 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)
context show receiving the Spirit refers to the indwelling
Again, their hearts were purified BY FAITH, not by the Spirit falling ON them before they exhibited their faith in repentance, confession, and baptism. Repentance leads to salvation, it does not cause it. The Gentiles were allowed the repentance that leads to salvation, but they were not saved just by repentance. They were saved/forgiven of their sins, when they were baptized in water after the Spirit fell ON (not into) them to show the Jews that the Gentiles were to be accepted into the Church as equals.had his heart purified by faith, and had repentance unto life
Acts 15:8–9 (LEB) — 8 And God, who knows the heart, testified to them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he also did to us. 9 And he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.
Acts 11:16–18 (LEB) — 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 Therefore if God gave them the same gift as also to us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to be able to hinder God?” 18 And when they heard these things, they became silent and praised God, saying, “Then God has granted the repentance leading to life to the Gentiles also!”
All before water baptism
There was no water when the gentiles were baptized en the spiritThe Spirit is the active, effective, functional ingredient in baptism, but the baptism He is functional in is water baptism. No other baptism has man as the performer (Matt 28:19), fulfills John 3:5, 1 Pet 3:21, and Eph 5:26-27.
Sorry dozens of verses posit salvation with no mention of waterThat interpretation does not agree with ALL Scripture. The baptism in which we are saved must include water because it is in water (like the Flood) baptism that we are saved (1 Pet 3:21), and it is through water and the Word that we are made pure (Gal 3:26-27). And it is man who must do the baptizing in which we are saved (Mark 16:16, Matt 28:19).
Sorry again the baptizing element is the Spirit hereCertainly not. As I said a post or two ago, there are many baptisms mentioned in the NT, but only one of significance to salvation in the NT Church, and that one baptism must include both water and the Spirit.
The eunuch was not saved until he was baptized into Christ.Doug, Acts 8:36 does NOT link salvation with water. Since the eunuch WAS saved, he rightly asked to be baptized.
Sure they are 100% true, but so are the passages that say that we are saved when we are baptized in water. Both must be true at the same time, and that means that they must be merged together, not excluding one or the other set. You would have us exclude the many passages that say we are saved when we take actions of faith (repentance (Acts 3:19), confession (Rom 10:9-10), and baptism (Acts 2:38, Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14). If you exclude these passages, then you make Scripture out to contain lies or extraneous material that is not needed. But every passage of Scripture is completely true at the same time.You are misinterpreting ALL your go-to verses, which now makes you 100% wrong. The verses that say we can be saved and don't mention baptism - and there are between 100 and 200 of them are 100% true.
Not true. ALL Scripture must be true at the same time. This means that when one passage says that repentance leads to forgiveness of sin (salvation)(Acts 3:19), and another passage says belief and verbal confession lead to salvation (forgiveness of sin)(Rom 10:9-10), and several passages say that baptism results in salvation (Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14, 1 Pet 3:21, Mark 16:16, Acts 22:16, and others), all of these passages must be 100% true at the same time, ie: repentance, confession, belief, and baptism are all required in order to receive salvation.You can't just go through all of those verses and say, "Well, they really should have said that they needed to be baptized in order to get saved." Wrong! They are TRUE WITHOUT ADDING REQUIREMENTS TO GET SAVED, AS YOU HAVE DONE.
There certainly are other baptisms, but they have no function or significance in the NT Church. Only baptism in water has any functionality in the NT Church.Regarding Ephesians 4:5-6 You admit there are OTHER BAPTISMS, so are calling those verses a LIE, as you FALSELY ACCUSED TOM OF SAYING?
Because the requirement of faith is included in the passages I do quote/cite. Without faith you won't really repent, you won't confess Jesus as your Lord, and getting baptized only gets you wet.Actually you are IGNORING those 100 to 200 verses. We NEVER see you quoting those. Why not?
No, I do not ignore them. I accept them as 100% true, but they do not tell the whole story of what is required for salvation; just as Mark 15:26 does not tell the whole story of what was written on the plaque on Jesus' cross. It tells only the part that the original audience needed to hear at that time. But there are other details that they either already knew or were not detailed in the text that are recorded elsewhere in Scripture (like in John 19:19). Another example of this is in the passage Tom cites from Acts 16:31. If you go on to verse 32, you see that Paul went on to preach all of the Gospel to the jailer. He had to hear the Gospel in order to have faith in/believe it. And we can tell that baptism in water was part of what he taught them, because that very hour of the night he baptized them.By the way, 99% of those verses DO NOT require confession or baptism to receive forgiveness and salvation. But you IGNORE ALL OF THEM. We do not ignore your go-to verses, but you IGNORE ALL OF THESE 100-200 VERSES. So TOM IS CORRECT. YOU DO IGNORE A HUGE SEGMENT OF SCRIPTURE.
What is a disciple? It is a learner. A learner begins learning long before they are saved, and they continue learning until they die (at least they should). It does not mean that they are saved when you call someone a disciple. There were many disciples who left Jesus when He talked about eating His flesh and drinking His blood (John 6:66). We make learners, and then when they come to faith, we baptize them into Christ so that they can receive forgiveness of their sins (Acts 2:38), and that makes them saved.You FALSELY INTERPRET Matthew 28:19, which clearly speaks of making disciples first, BEFORE they are baptized. It DOES NOT SAY that baptism is required to become a disciple, which is your FALSE INTERPRETATION.
Everyone is already lost, so everyone who is not baptized remains lost. Salvation is inside the room and everyone is already outside the room. To be saved you must enter the room. If you don't open the door, then you can't enter the room.Mark 16:16 DOES NOT SAY THAT HE WHO HAS BELIEVED AND HAS NOT BEEN BAPTIZED SHALL BE LOST. BUT THAT'S HOW YOU TWIST IT TO MAKE IT SOUND LIKE HE SAYS THAT. That's ADDING TO THE SCRIPTURE, WHICH THE SCRIPTURE ITSELF CONDEMNS.
The ones that God has said in His Scripture LEAD TO/RESULT IN receiving salvation. There are only three of these actions: repentance (Acts 3:19), confession of Jesus as Lord (Rom 10:9-10), and baptism (Acts 2:38, 1 Pet 3:21). All the other actions we are commanded to do are the result of being saved. But these three are to be done in order to be saved.Hebrews 5:9 So which work that James suggests are people to OBEY, in order to be saved?
No, Jesus didn't "forget" to tell them anything. He said believe/have faith in Him, and that encompasses all of what He says elsewhere in His Word leads to receiving salvation.Feeding and clothing the poor? According to your FALSE INTERPRETATION of James 2:15-17, THAT WOULD MEET HIS REQUIREMENT TO SAVE THEM.
Jesus answers that: "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." OOPS, JESUS FORGOT TO TELL THEM THEY MUST ALSO BE BAPTIZED - AND MAKE A CONFESSION - AND OF COURSE, REPENT.
No, you have not. You have shown that you refuse to accept what Scripture says as true.Neither Tom nor I have IGNORED, EXCLUDED, OR SWEPT UNDER THE RUG ANY VERSE. WE HAVE DEALT WITH ALL OF YOUR GO-TO VERSES AND PROVEN THAT YOU TWIST THEM TO MAKE THEM SAY WHAT YOU WANT.
I do use them, when they are appropriate to the discussion. But they are redundant to this conversation because they only speak in general/vague terms of what is required for salvation. One example of this would be if I gave you a car, but told you you had to come to Atlanta, GA to get it. But then in the details of the offer, I told you that you had to fly on Delta Airlines, and you had to rent a car from Enterprise go get to the dealership. "Come to Atlanta" is a given in the details of fly on Delta and rent from Enterprise, so it is not necessary to repeatedly refer to the instruction to "come to Atlanta". But it is necessary to stress Delta and Enterprise, because those details might be missed or "explained away". It is essential to "come to Atlanta", just as it is essential to have faith/believe. But it is not necessary to stress the verses that only mention faith because the other passages that mention what is required also demand that these things be done in faith.You consistently IGNORE, EXCLUDE AND SWEEP UNDER THE RUG ALL 100-200 VERSES, THAT DON'T DEMAND BAPTISM AS A REQUIREMENT FOR SALVATION. Why do you treat much of the Bible that way? MAYBE YOU SHOULD JUST CUT THOSE VERSES OUT OF YOUR BIBLE, SINCE YOU NEVER USE THEM. Maybe you could write your own study Bible - and just leave those verses out? Why should they even be there? You never use them.
