Acts 22:16 Paul's salvation

[Doug Brents]

Doug Brents said: "But one who simply has a thought in their head that the Gospel is true is not saved."

You would have to be God Himself to know that - and you are not God. So you cannot make authoritative statements like that, especially when there is NO scripture that says that. A person who believes something in his head also believes it in his heart. In fact, please explain how you can separate what's in a person's head from what's in their heart. I don't think the heart can "hide" anything from the head, nor can the head "hide" anything from the heart.

"For who among men know the thoughts of a man except the spirit (or heart) of the man which is in him?" 1 Cor. 2:11

Did you know that we can reason in our hearts? Jesus asked, "Why are you reasoning in your hearts?" Luke 5:22

So Doug Brents go-to phrase "intellectual assent" is just what TomL said - a straw man.

If you believe something in your head, you also believe it in your heart - and vice-versa. You cannot separate the two, even though Doug pretends that you can, so he can make his false "point", that you can believe the gospel in your head, without believing it with your heart - that's not possible.

That is not the point I was making. Believing in your head or in your heart (if that is all you do) does not save. Rom 10:9-10 says both believe in the heart AND confess with the mouth. Acts 2:38 says that, after they had believed in their hearts, they still needed to repent AND be baptized. Mark 16:16 says that one must both believe the Gospel AND be baptized in order to be saved.

 

[TomL]

One who exhibits their faith through obedience is saved. But on who simply has a thought in their head that the Gospel is true is not saved.

Do you imagine God cannot know the heart? That he must wait for some sign to know who is trusting in him.

And you imagine because someone is waster baptized they will follow him for the rest of their life and be obedient

Intellectual assent is the common connotation of "believe". But Biblical belief is not just a mental exercise, it means to have faith, and faith without action/works/obedience is dead and worthless. Dead faith cannot save.

In your mind. I noted what I mean by believe so you attack a strawman

We have been over this. Belief means faith, and faith means trust, and trust requires obedience. If you don't obey then you don't really trust/have faith/believe. All of these are great verses about "believing" (having faith), but they do not tell us what form that faith must take. There are many passages that do tell us what form that faith must take, like:
Rom 10:10, which says that confession "with the mouth" (obviously a physical action) results in (meaning it must come before) salvation being received.
Rom 6:1-7, which tells us that baptism is the point at which we die to sin and are united with Jesus' death and resurrection.
Col 2:11-14, which tells us that during baptism the Holy Spirit cuts sin from us and unites us with Christ's death and resurrection
Eph 5:26-27, which tells us that it is by the washing of water through the Word (water baptism with the Holy Spirit taking action)
Gal 3:26-27, which tells us that we are clothed with Christ and adopted as God's children in baptism
Acts 3:19, which tells us that repentance results in (meaning it must come before) salvation being received.

One can confess without water baptism so that offer no support for your position

Rom 6 does not mention water baptism and speak of a real baptism into Christ effected by the Holy Spirit

There is nothing about a burial into water in col 2. You are assumiing water

Eph 5:26 shows it is the word which washes

Gal 3:26 says nothing about baptism into water but into Christ

This is a function of the Holy Spirit

1 Corinthians 12:13 (LEB) — 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free persons, and all were made to drink one Spirit.

repentance yes but one can be baptized with water without truly repenting and repentance should logically precede being water baptized

 

[dwight92070]

That is not the point I was making. Believing in your head or in your heart (if that is all you do) does not save. Rom 10:9-10 says both believe in the heart AND confess with the mouth. Acts 2:38 says that, after they had believed in their hearts, they still needed to repent AND be baptized. Mark 16:16 says that one must both believe the Gospel AND be baptized in order to be saved.

Wrong, believing in your heart does save. We are told that over and over in scripture. If one believes Jesus in his head (which is the same as with his heart) he has already repented because he believes Jesus' command and teaching to repent. So yes, repent and believe, both of which go together and you will be saved. After that, just as Acts 2:38 gives us the order, get baptized.

 

[TomL]

That is not the point I was making. Believing in your head or in your heart (if that is all you do) does not save. Rom 10:9-10 says both believe in the heart AND confess with the mouth. Acts 2:38 says that, after they had believed in their hearts, they still needed to repent AND be baptized. Mark 16:16 says that one must both believe the Gospel AND be baptized in order to be saved.

Rom 10:9, 10 So if you believe in your heart and confess you are saved previous to water baptism

And no Mark 16:16 does not say you must believe and be baptized to be saved

 

[Doug Brents]

Do you imagine God cannot know the heart? That he must wait for some sign to know who is trusting in him.

Certainly He can. Yet He does not. Read through the OT, there is not a single case of someone being offered a blessing that does not also have a requirement for action. Naaman had to dip in Jordan seven times before he was cleansed, the nation had to march around Jericho seven days before the walls fell, the widow had to gather jars and pour the oil, the other widow had to offer her last cake to the prophet, Moses had to offer Isaac on the alter, etc.

And you imagine because someone is waster baptized they will follow him for the rest of their life and be obedient

That is not a given, at all. But someone who is not baptized has not even begun to follow Him. Baptism is the entry point, it is the start of a new life in Christ. It is where the old man dies and the new man is created. The old man goes into the water and dies there, and the new man is born there and comes out of the water.

In your mind. I noted what I mean by believe so you attack a strawman

Oxford Dictionary:
Believe
1. accept (something) as true; feel sure of the truth of
2. hold (something) as an opinion; think or suppose
This is the dictionary definition of "believe". It has no reference to faith, trust, or obedience. Intellectual assent is not a "strawman", it is in reference to what you seem to think "belief" is. Belief in the Bible is not just a mental exercise, and after you have this thought in your heart you are saved and then go get baptized to show that you have been saved. That is not what Scripture says.

One can confess without water baptism so that offer no support for your position

Yes they can, but they are not saved with only the confession.

Rom 6 does not mention water baptism and speak of a real baptism into Christ effected by the Holy Spirit

We have already been over this many times. There is only one baptism in the NT Church, and it MUST include water (1 Pet 3:21, Acts 8:36) and it is something that man must do and receive (Matt 28:19, Acts 2:38), and it results in receiving salvation (Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14).

There is nothing about a burial into water in col 2. You are assumiing water

We have already been over this many times. There is only one baptism in the NT Church, and it MUST include water (1 Pet 3:21, Acts 8:36) and it is something that man must do and receive (Matt 28:19, Acts 2:38), and it results in receiving salvation (Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14).

Eph 5:26 shows it is the word which washes

Through water by the Word. It is not the Word that washes, it is in water by the Word that we are washed.

Gal 3:26 says nothing about baptism into water but into Christ

We have already been over this many times. There is only one baptism in the NT Church, and it MUST include water (1 Pet 3:21, Acts 8:36) and it is something that man must do and receive (Matt 28:19, Acts 2:38), and it results in receiving salvation (Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14).

This is a function of the Holy Spirit

1 Corinthians 12:13 (LEB) — 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free persons, and all were made to drink one Spirit.

repentance yes but one can be baptized with water without truly repenting and repentance should logically precede being water baptized

You keep going back to 1 Cor 12:13, but it does not exclude water baptism. It is in water that the Holy Spirit does the work of bringing us into the One Body of Christ. He does not do this on His own, at some random time when a person thinks in their head/heart that the Gospel is true. It happens when God said it happens, during water baptism (the only baptism in the NT Church).

 

[Doug Brents]

Wrong, believing in your heart does save. We are told that over and over in scripture. If one believes Jesus, he has already repented because he believes Jesus' command and teaching to repent. So yes, repent and believe, both of which go together and you will be saved. After that, just as Acts 2:38 gives us the order, get baptized.

Acts 2:28 does not say believe and repent and you are saved, and then go get baptized. It says, now that you have believed, you still need to repent AND be baptized in order to receive forgiveness of sins. Both repentance and baptism must be done in order for sins to be forgiven. And this is corroborated by 1 Pet 3:21 which says that baptism (in water, like the Flood) now saves you, and again by Rom 6, Col 2, Gal 3, and Eph 5.

 

[Doug Brents]

Rom 10:9, 10 So if you believe in your heart and confess you are saved previous to water baptism

Wrong, because that would invalidate 1 Pet 3:21, Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16, and others. Belief and confession lead to, but do not immediately result in, salvation. If you confess Jesus as Lord, then you must obey Him as Lord and do everything He says, one part of which is to be baptized in order to receive forgiveness (Acts 2:38).

And no Mark 16:16 does not say you must believe and be baptized to be saved

Yes, it does, "The one who has believed and has been baptized will be saved"

 

[Fool4Christ]

Fool4Christ said: "It was on the road to Damascus that Paul acknowledged Jesus as Lord and that God raised him from the dead."

I think you meant he was raised from the dead SPIRITUALLY, not physically, right?

I agree with you. If you or I had that same miraculous thing happen to us, of course we would have been saved on the spot! For anyone to deny that is not being honest. A person would have to be pretty hard-hearted and plain evil to reject such a miraculous appearance of Jesus Himself. And Saul, even though he was sinning against God, at least THOUGHT he was doing the right thing. He told us later that he was doing what he did (before Christ appeared to him) IGNORANTLY.

However, there's no need to interject a man-made religious doctrine into this story - i.e. dispensationalism. We all know "Gospel of Grace" is code for that false doctrine. There's only one gospel and Paul and Jesus both preached the same gospel. In Acts 20:24, Paul calls it the gospel of the grace of God, but in the very next verse, he calls it (the gospel of) the kingdom of God. The terms are interchangeable and there are also other names used elsewhere for that same gospel: the gospel of the kingdom, the gospel of Jesus Christ, the gospel of God, the gospel of His Son, the gospel of Christ, the gospel of our Lord Jesus, the gospel of the blessed God, and the word gospel is also used by itself numerous times.

I'll go with on the road to Damascus that Paul that Paul had his encounter with Jesus.

 

[dwight92070]

Is it possible to have faith without doing any work?

Take Doug's belief, for example. He believes one must be baptized in order to be saved. So lets say I agreed with him and I'm a new believer and I want to obey Jesus and get baptized at the earliest time possible. So I need to find someone who will baptize me, a place to get baptized because I want to be immersed, and I must come to an agreement with the one who baptizes me, as to a time that works for both of us.

So I find a willing believer to baptize me, we find a place to do it, and finally we agree on the earliest time that works for both of us. Let's say that today is Tuesday, but the earliest time possible for both of us is Saturday evening at 7 p.m.

Do I have true Biblical faith today, Tuesday, even though I have not been baptized yet? Doug says the only works that God accepts to show your genuine faith is confessing Jesus as Lord and getting baptized in water. I can confess today, but I can't get baptized until Saturday.
Would I have true Biblical faith tomorrow, on Wednesday, even though I can't be baptized then?
Will I have true Biblical faith on Thursday, even though my baptism won't happen that day?
How about Friday? I still have to wait another day. Would I have true Biblical faith if I don't get baptized that day?
Finally Saturday arrives. But I can't get baptized until 7 p.m. that night. Would I have true Biblical faith on Saturday morning? or Saturday afternoon?

According to Doug, if I humble myself and weep before God and ask Him to forgive me and cleanse me of all my sins on Tuesday or Wednesday or Thursday or Friday or Saturday morning or Saturday afternoon, God will not and cannot do that until 7 p.m. on Saturday, when I'm actually baptized in water.

If I ask God to give me His Holy Spirit to dwell in me, and I want to be born again, God will not and cannot do that until 7 p.m. on Saturday when I get baptized in water.

If I'm in a car accident on Thursday and end up dying on Friday, would I go to heaven, since I was not saved by being baptized?

According to Doug, it's impossible to have true Biblical faith, unless you first obey Him in confessing Him as Lord and in getting baptized in water.

 

[Doug Brents]

Is it possible to have faith without doing any work?

No, it is not, because the definition of faith requires action, it demands work (Heb 11:1, James 2:14-26).

Take Doug's belief, for example. He believes one must be baptized in order to be saved. So lets say I agreed with him and I'm a new believer and I want to obey Jesus and get baptized at the earliest time possible. So I need to find someone who will baptize me, a place to get baptized because I want to be immersed, and I must come to an agreement with the one who baptizes me, as to a time that works for both of us.

Your argument is not Biblical in the least. First off, we would be studying together when you come to believe in Jesus, so your willing believer is sitting with you already. And as Scripture shows, we would immediately go to the nearest water of any description large enough to immerse you into. We would not schedule a time next week, or next month.

So I find a willing believer to baptize me, we find a place to do it, and finally we agree on the earliest time that works for both of us. Let's say that today is Tuesday, but the earliest time possible for both of us is Saturday evening at 7 p.m.

The Bible says NOW, today, this very hour, is the time to be baptized. I would not let you wait until Saturday at 7 pm. I would insist that if you truly believe, that we baptize you right NOW. There is NOTHING more important than insuring you are saved NOW.

According to Doug, if I humble myself and weep before God and ask Him to forgive me and cleanse me of all my sins on Tuesday or Wednesday or Thursday or Friday or Saturday morning or Saturday afternoon, God will not and cannot do that until 7 p.m. on Saturday, when I'm actually baptized in water.

If I ask God to give me His Holy Spirit to dwell in me, and I want to be born again, God will not and cannot do that until 7 p.m. on Saturday when I get baptized in water.

If I'm in a car accident on Thursday and end up dying on Friday, would I go to heaven, since I was not saved by being baptized?

I didn't author the Bible. So I didn't make these commands. God did. He is the one holding all the marbles here, and He is the one who makes all the rules. He said He would only save those who are in Christ, and He set repentance from sin, confession of Jesus as Lord, and baptism as conditions for entering into Christ. If you die in Christ then you are saved. If you die while not in Christ then you are not saved. And His way is the only way to get into Christ.

According to Doug, it's impossible to have true Biblical faith, unless you first obey Him in confessing Him as Lord and in getting baptized in water.

Not according to Doug, according to God.

 

[TomL]

Wrong, because that would invalidate 1 Pet 3:21, Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16, and others. Belief and confession lead to, but do not immediately result in, salvation. If you confess Jesus as Lord, then you must obey Him as Lord and do everything He says, one part of which is to be baptized in order to receive forgiveness (Acts 2:38).

Yes, it does, "The one who has believed and has been baptized will be saved"

Sorry, scripture does not invalidate scripture

Your text does not say he who believes and is not baptized cannot be saved

That is the fallacy of negative inference.

This is true

Acts 16:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

 

[TomL]

Certainly He can. Yet He does not. Read through the OT, there is not a single case of someone being offered a blessing that does not also have a requirement for action. Naaman had to dip in Jordan seven times before he was cleansed, the nation had to march around Jericho seven days before the walls fell, the widow had to gather jars and pour the oil, the other widow had to offer her last cake to the prophet, Moses had to offer Isaac on the alter, etc.

Lets see

Acts 16:31 (LEB) — 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household!”

I do not see any water there

That is not a given, at all. But someone who is not baptized has not even begun to follow Him. Baptism is the entry point, it is the start of a new life in Christ. It is where the old man dies and the new man is created. The old man goes into the water and dies there, and the new man is born there and comes out of the water.

Sorry faith is the entry point not water baptism

Faith provides for one being baptized en the Spirit into Christ

Galatians 3:26–27 (LEB) — 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27 for as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:13 (LEB) — 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free persons, and all were made to drink one Spirit.

Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

Oxford Dictionary:
Believe
1. accept (something) as true; feel sure of the truth of
2. hold (something) as an opinion; think or suppose
This is the dictionary definition of "believe". It has no reference to faith, trust, or obedience. Intellectual assent is not a "strawman", it is in reference to what you seem to think "belief" is. Belief in the Bible is not just a mental exercise, and after you have this thought in your heart you are saved and then go get baptized to show that you have been saved. That is not what Scripture says.

Fallacious approach

it is the biblical definition of faith not a definition from a secular dictionary which you need to understand

Yes they can, but they are not saved with only the confession.

But without water

Romans 10:9 (LEB) — 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Verse after verse posits salvation without any mention of water

We have already been over this many times. There is only one baptism in the NT Church, and it MUST include water (1 Pet 3:21, Acts 8:36) and it is something that man must do and receive (Matt 28:19, Acts 2:38), and it results in receiving salvation (Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14).

Nope the one true baptism is that of the spirit

It's what Christ not man accomplishes which places man into the body of christ


1 Corinthians 12:13 (LEB) — 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free persons, and all were made to drink one Spirit.

Acts 11:11–18 (KJV 1900) — 11 And, behold, immediately there were three men already come unto the house where I was, sent from Caesarea unto me. 12 And the spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man’s house: 13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter; 14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

No mention of water

 

[MTMattie]

Wrong, believing in your heart does save. We are told that over and over in scripture. If one believes Jesus in his head (which is the same as with his heart) he has already repented because he believes Jesus' command and teaching to repent. So yes, repent and believe, both of which go together and you will be saved. After that, just as Acts 2:38 gives us the order, get baptized.

So in your opinion... where does "Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”, fit in the grand scheme of things? A baptism is not being born again.

But you can be born again with out the baptism.

Also in your opinion where does John 6:
53 Jesus said to them, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood you have no life in yourselves.
54 The one who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.

Y'all get hung up on a verse in Mark when it has been challenged over and over again if Mark even wrote those words. And there is so much more that gets ignored.

 

[dwight92070]

So in your opinion... where does "Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”, fit in the grand scheme of things? A baptism is not being born again.

But you can be born again with out the baptism.

Being born again, also called the new birth, according to Jesus, is essential to see and enter into the kingdom of God. Jesus is the King in the kingdom of God and we, His loyal subjects are in the kingdom of God. First, we can't become born again whenever we choose to, because Jesus said that the Holy Spirit moves where He wants and when He wants . John 3:8 But if we will continue to saturate our hearts with Jesus' words, meditate on them, and do them, and then sincerely ask Him for the gift of being born again, I trust He will be more than willing to give that to us, in His time and in His way. We can't really devise a formula for getting born again. Being born again is synonymous with salvation, and we do know that our hearts need to be humble and sincere and ask Him to bless us with that salvation.
Being born again only needs to happen once in our lifetime. If and when it happens to us, I believe we will know it. He will give us that assurance. Baptism or any other work is not a prerequisite, but Jesus does tell us, if we are new disciples, He instructs us to be baptized in water, as soon as it is possible. I do not believe, as Doug says in #690, that it's almost like dialing 911, that if you don't get baptized immediately before you do anything else, you could be lost forever. It doesn't matter how late it is, where the water is, how cold it is - just put everything else on hold until you get baptized in water. I think that is misreading scripture.
Some have said that if you're born again and then later turn away from God, but decide to come back to Him,that you can never be born again a second time - just like we were born naturally once. But that is not true, Being born again is just a metaphor for salvation. There are many other metaphors that are used, which make it easier to see that. For example, we were in the kingdom of darkness and we came into the kingdom of light. If we turn back to the darkness, and later repent, we can come back to the light. Paul said that many Jews rejected Jesus and they were like branches broken off of an olive tree, even though at one time they were in that tree. Then he said that "And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again." Romans 11:17-23


Also in your opinion where does John 6:
53 Jesus said to them, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood you have no life in yourselves.
54 The one who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.

Y'all get hung up on a verse in Mark when it has been challenged over and over again if Mark even wrote those words. And there is so much more that gets ignored.

Jesus said, " ... the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life." John 6:63 It appears that He is saying "if you eat My flesh and drink My blood" - that's basically saying, "if you believe in Me".

 

[TomL]

Lets see

Acts 16:31 (LEB) — 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household!”

I do not see any water there



Sorry faith is the entry point not water baptism

Faith provides for one being baptized en the Spirit into Christ

Galatians 3:26–27 (LEB) — 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27 for as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:13 (LEB) — 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free persons, and all were made to drink one Spirit.

Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,




Fallacious approach

it is the biblical definition of faith not a definition from a secular dictionary which you need to understand



But without water

Romans 10:9 (LEB) — 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Verse after verse posits salvation without any mention of water




Nope the one true baptism is that of the spirit

It's what Christ not man accomplishes which places man into the body of christ


1 Corinthians 12:13 (LEB) — 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free persons, and all were made to drink one Spirit.

Acts 11:11–18 (KJV 1900) — 11 And, behold, immediately there were three men already come unto the house where I was, sent from Caesarea unto me. 12 And the spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man’s house: 13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter; 14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

No mention of water

And they were confirmed by the Spirit

 

[Jim]

Acts 11:11–18 (KJV 1900) — 11 And, behold, immediately there were three men already come unto the house where I was, sent from Caesarea unto me. 12 And the spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man’s house: 13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter; 14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

No mention of water

Peter was recounting the events described earlier in Acts 10: 47 "Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.

Do you see the mention of water there?

 

[Doug Brents]

Sorry, scripture does not invalidate scripture

You are correct, it does not invalidate itself. But it does clarify, sharpen, and explain itself.

Your text does not say he who believes and is not baptized cannot be saved

John 3:5 does. Anyone who is not born of both water and the Spirit (water baptism in which the Holy Spirit removes sin and resurrects the soul from death with Jesus (Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14)) cannot enter the Kingdom of God (the Church).

That is the fallacy of negative inference.

This is true

Acts 16:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Again, what does it mean to "believe"? You have said yourself that it doesn't mean just to have a thought in your heart/head. It means to have faith, and faith requires action to be real, alive, and effective.

 

[Doug Brents]

Lets see

Acts 16:31 (LEB) — 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household!”

I do not see any water there

You don't see water because you believe that "spirit baptism" is the one baptism in the NT Church, contrary to what Scripture says. Saving belief/faith requires the actions of obedience that God says lead to/result in receiving salvation.

Sorry faith is the entry point not water baptism

Faith provides for one being baptized en the Spirit into Christ

Galatians 3:26–27 (LEB) — 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27 for as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:13 (LEB) — 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free persons, and all were made to drink one Spirit.

Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

Yes, faith is the entry point. And faith requires the actions that God commanded that lead to/result in receiving salvation: repentance, confession, and baptism.

it is the biblical definition of faith not a definition from a secular dictionary which you need to understand

This is true, but seeing as how we are English speakers, not Greek speakers, the definition of the word in English is the connotation that most people will have when reading those Scriptures, and it appears to be your understanding of the word as well because you continually refer back to "belief only" as what is required to be saved. But Biblical belief requires much more than just a thought in your head/heart. It requires active faith, which means doing all the things that God says lead to receiving salvation.

But without water

Romans 10:9 (LEB) — 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Verse after verse posits salvation without any mention of water

Is all of Scripture God's Word? Is there any error, disagreement, conflict, or contradiction in Scripture? No? Then ALL of the places that speak of what is required to receive salvation MUST be all true at the same time. Just because Rom 10:9-10 doesn't say anything about baptism or repentance doesn't mean that those things are not required. Acts 3:19 makes it clear that repentance is absolutely necessary to receive forgiveness/salvation, yet it does not mention belief, confession of Jesus as Lord, or baptism.

Nope the one true baptism is that of the spirit

It's what Christ not man accomplishes which places man into the body of christ

That is not what Scripture says. The one baptism in the NT Church is the one done by man, because the teacher (man) is commanded to do it (Matt 28:19), the student (man) is commanded to receive it (Acts 2:38), it requires water (1 Pet 3:21), it emulates Jesus' burial (Rom 6:1-7), it is what the Apostles and Deacons of the first century taught (Acts 8:36), without passing through water we cannot enter into the Kingdom of God (John 3:5).

1 Corinthians 12:13 (LEB) — 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free persons, and all were made to drink one Spirit.

Acts 11:11–18 (KJV 1900) — 11 And, behold, immediately there were three men already come unto the house where I was, sent from Caesarea unto me. 12 And the spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man’s house: 13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter; 14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

No mention of water

Again, is all of Scripture God's Word? Is there any error, disagreement, conflict, or contradiction in Scripture? No? Then ALL of the places that speak of what is required to receive salvation MUST be all true at the same time. So while these passages seem to say that only the Spirit is involved, there are many passages that point to water baptism being the one baptism in the NT Church, and so with those passages working with these passages, we must come to the conclusion that both water and the Spirit (John 3:5) are necessary to be involved in the baptism that brings us into the Kingdom of God (salvation).

 

[Doug Brents]

So in your opinion... where does "Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”, fit in the grand scheme of things? A baptism is not being born again.

But you can be born again with out the baptism.

No, you cannot be born again without dying, and we die to sin in (water) baptism (Rom 6:1-7).

Also in your opinion where does John 6:
53 Jesus said to them, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood you have no life in yourselves.
54 The one who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.

Y'all get hung up on a verse in Mark when it has been challenged over and over again if Mark even wrote those words. And there is so much more that gets ignored.

This is speaking spiritually (through communion), not physically. And communion is about remembering His sacrifice for our sins, which is only effective for those who are in Christ, and not for those who either don't know Christ yet or have rejected Him. So if you are not in Christ, and participate in communion to remember His life, death, and resurrection then you do not have life in you, and remain condemned.

 

[MTMattie]

No, you cannot be born again without dying, and we die to sin in (water) baptism (Rom 6:1-7).

The thief on the cross had no baptism.

Requiring anything in addition to faith in Jesus Christ for salvation is a works-based salvation. To add anything to the gospel is to say that Jesus’ death on the cross was not sufficient to purchase our salvation. To say that baptism is necessary for salvation is to say we must add our own good works and obedience to Christ’s death in order to make it sufficient for salvation. Jesus’ death alone paid for our sins seeRomans 5:8; 2 Corinthians 5:21. Jesus’ payment for our sins is appropriated to our “account” by faith alone see John 3:16; Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8-9. Therefore, baptism is an important step of obedience after salvation but cannot be a requirement for salvation.
Think about this.... Paul said "I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius," (And later remembers Stephanus)
If baptism were part of the gospel itself, necessary for salvation, what good would it have done Paul to preach the gospel, but not baptize? No one would have been saved.
The Bible is clear that salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, not by works of any kind, including baptism see Ephesians 2:8-9. So, any interpretation which comes to the conclusion that baptism, or any other act, is necessary for salvation, is a faulty interpretation
As to Mark 16:16 (I wish they would figure out who wrote the verses after verse 8)
_
Mark 16:16 says, “the one who believes and is baptized will be saved,” but then says, “the one who does not believe will be condemned.” A person is condemned for not believing. It says nothing about being condemned because of not being baptized. This text should not be pressed to say what it does not say. The New Testament knows nothing of an unbaptized Christian, and therefore the text speaks generally about a baptized believer. It is not meant to deal with an unusual situation in which one believes and is not baptized.

With all that said, as with any verse, we must compare it to what the rest of Scripture teaches on the subject. In the case of baptism and salvation, the Bible is clear that salvation is by grace through faith alone in Jesus Christ—not by works see Eph 2:8-9, John 3:16, Rom 10:9-10. So, any interpretation which comes to the conclusion that baptism, or any other act, is necessary for salvation, is a faulty interpretation.

This is speaking spiritually (through communion), not physically. And communion is about remembering His sacrifice for our sins, which is only effective for those who are in Christ, and not for those who either don't know Christ yet or have rejected Him. So if you are not in Christ, and participate in communion to remember His life, death, and resurrection then you do not have life in you, and remain condemned.