My position is We should be baptized as it is a command
Acts 22:16 Paul's salvation
- Thread starter dwight92070
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Doug Brents
Well-known member
Certainly we should be baptized because it is indeed a command. But that command says that baptism leads to/results in receiving salvation. It is not "the first act AFTER salvation is received"; it is the last act DURING WHICH salvation is received.
I might be a bit late on this baptism issue. It does bring up the question whether there is a command for anyone to be baptized today or as a universal principle of coming to Christ. Nor do we have an indication that all the apostles were baptized. What verse would I need to share with someone saying that person is one who is commanded to be baptized? I'm not against doing it but the question having been raised could use an answer now.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
I would start with Acts 2:38, John 3:5, and Mark 16:16. From there look at 1 Pet 3:21, Col 2:11-14, Rom 6:1-7, Eph 5:26-27, and Gal 3:26-27. The sum total of these passages points to the fact that it is during water baptism (immersion) that the Holy Spirit removes our sin (we die to sin), are united to Jesus in His death and resurrection, are clothed with Christ, and are united to the Body of Christ (the Church).
dwight92070
Well-known member
Incorrect, Abraham believed God, even without being circumcised, and it was "counted unto him for righteousness. How was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; and he received the SIGN of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised ..."Romans 4:11
Even so, baptism is a SIGN of the faith which we had while not yet baptized. Righteousness was credited to us even without yet being baptized, because we believed God. Baptism is a SIGN of our faith which we had while we were not yet baptized.
The truth of scripture is quite clear. Baptism saves no one. You are greatly mistaken.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
Baptism is not like circumcision. It is more like the blood on the doors during the Exodus:
blood = salvation
no blood = death
baptism = salvation
no baptism = remain condemned
Behold
Well-known member
@Doug Brents ..
Let me show you 2 things..
1.) If Water Baptism died for your sins, on The Cross.....then keep teaching that water baptism is important, regarding Salvation.
2.) Lets Go back in time.. Now, Put Jesus back in Heaven as John 1:1... He has not come down yet to be virgin born... . There is no Jesus on the Cross, yet.
Now, Go to your local Catholic or Baptist or Methodist or Mormon baptismal, and let each of those water baptize you, 25 times, each.
Now, you have been water baptized, 100 times.
So, why are you not born again?
Why are you not Saved?
Why are you still going to Hell?
Figure that out, asap.
dwight92070
Well-known member
It is totally ridiculous to think that any of the apostles were not baptized. Even Jesus Himself submitted to baptism, yet if anyone did not need to be baptized, it was Him. And you think that ANY of His apostles would NOT BE? Also read John 4:1. It is obvious that the first disciples baptized each other in the name of Jesus, because Jesus Himself did not water baptize anyone.
In Matthew 28:19, Jesus commands that ALL of His disciples to be baptized. In fact some (not all) of His disciples were baptized twice, because some of them followed John the Baptist before they followed Jesus. So they received John's baptism. Later when they decided to follow Jesus, as John actually encouraged them to do, they were again baptized in Jesus' name. This is what happened in the early verses of Acts 19. They were baptized a second time in the name of Jesus (not in the name of John), not to receive righteousness, but that baptism was a SIGN of the faith in Jesus that they had BEFORE they were baptized.
Behold
Well-known member
Neither Peter nor those in the Upper Room were water baptized before they "spoke with other Tongues"..
How do you know?
Its because of the Gifts of the Spirit that Peter had, whereby...= he BEGAN to tell those Jews at Pentecost a message that also stated "repent and be water baptized".............
= That message came out of His Mouth, and He was not water baptized first.
= That message came out of Peter's mouth, because He was "filled with the spirit"...and no water baptism had happened.
Also.
in John 20:22... Jesus gave the Holy Spirit to the 11 Apostles, and none were water baptized and none "spoke with other tongues".
Study your BIBLE...........Readers.
Get in there.
dwight92070
Well-known member
That's false. Having believed in Christ, we received the "circumcision of Christ, made without hands in the removal of the body of the flesh (i.e. sin)." Colossians 2:11. Since our sins were forgiven and we received His righteousness in that circumcision, we continued to obey Christ and submitted to the SIGN of water baptism (made WITH hands) which signified the faith in Christ, which we had BEFORE we were baptized.
It is exactly like circumcision. Both are signs submitted to after we believe in God
dwight92070
Well-known member
You really believe that the apostles were commanding people to obey Jesus and to be baptized, when they themselves did not already obey Him?
That's preposterous! You have to be smarter than that. ALL of the 120 were already baptized. If not, they were not true disciples of Jesus. Again, read John 4:1.
Did God allow Moses to lead the Israelites out of Egypt and to obey Him, even though Moses himself had not circumcised his son? No! In fact, God was prepared to kill Moses, if he didn't obey God and FIRST circumcise his son.
Likewise the apostles could not require others to do what they themselves had not done. This is really not that difficult to understand.
This comes from studying the Bible - not assuming things that are not in the Bible.
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Faith is the act that results in salvation
John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
dwight92070
Well-known member
To Behold,
You are mistaken. In John 20:22, the disciples had long before been baptized in water. If not, then they were disobedient to Jesus even while they followed Him around for 3 1/2 years, which would be totally hypocritical, and Jesus would not have tolerated that. Again, He himself submitted to John's baptism, even before He called any of His 12 apostles. Then, when He called them (and even others), they all had to be baptized in His name - John 4:1-2. The Bible is very clear on these truths.
You are mistaken. In John 20:22, the disciples had long before been baptized in water. If not, then they were disobedient to Jesus even while they followed Him around for 3 1/2 years, which would be totally hypocritical, and Jesus would not have tolerated that. Again, He himself submitted to John's baptism, even before He called any of His 12 apostles. Then, when He called them (and even others), they all had to be baptized in His name - John 4:1-2. The Bible is very clear on these truths.
dwight92070
Well-known member
Incorrect, nowhere in the Bible do we read that baptism leads to salvation. That's like saying "the sign of circumcision leads to believing in God and being declared righteous by Him", when the opposite is the truth of the Bible. We must believe in God to be counted righteous. After that we obey Jesus and submit to the sign of water baptism, which signifies the faith in God which we had BEFORE we were baptized.
Fool4Christ
Active member
In Acts 22:16 Paul is recounting the story of how he came to faith in Christ. Paul met Jesus on the road to Damascus and accepted Him as Lord with the help of a Jesus-follower named Ananias. Ananias called Paul to make his decision official by being baptized in Jesus' name.
It does seem to be pretty much assumed to have happened in Christians' lives in the NT even if there is no command to the general Christian to be baptized.
dwight92070
Well-known member
Actually, after Paul encountered the bright light and Jesus identified Himself, Paul didn't need Ananias' help to accept Jesus as his Lord. That happened completely and "officially" on that road to Damascus when Jesus said, "I am Jesus whom you are persecuting." Paul "accepted" Jesus at that very instant, and Jesus knew that he had, because He proceeds to give Paul an assignment, as a brand new believer - right there on the road to Damascus. We see that clearly in Acts 26:15-18. Jesus tells Paul that He has appointed him as a minister and a witness, not only to Jews but also Gentiles ... to open their eyes that they may turn from darkness to light ... and from Satan to God ...to receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among believers. And Paul is STILL on that road.
Three days later, when Ananias comes to him, he calls Saul "BROTHER SAUL", so Ananias knew that he was already converted.
The Bible doesn't tell us that water baptism "makes our decision to follow Jesus official" The Bible says that baptism is a SIGN of the faith in God that we had before being baptized.
dwight92070
Well-known member
On the contrary, in Matthew 28:18-20, Jesus commands all disciples to be baptized by those who brought them to Him. I mentioned this earlier, but you seem to have overlooked this.
It is the opposite direction. It is telling the apostles to make disciples and baptize them. I'm getting a little more specific in my analysis of scripture. But this is not the text of my focus.
Fool4Christ
Active member
So Ananias helped Paul get a good understanding of his conversion. And make a public confession of it. The outward sign of the inward conversion "baptism".
God seems to think Paul needed some help from Ananias.
Ananias Baptizes Saul
10 Now there was a certain disciple at Damascus named Ananias; and to him the Lord said in a vision, “Ananias.”And he said, “Here I am, Lord.”
11 So the Lord said to him, “Arise and go to the street called Straight, and inquire at the house of Judas for one called Saul of Tarsus, for behold, he is praying. 12 And in a vision he has seen a man named Ananias coming in and putting his hand on him, so that he might receive his sight.”
13 Then Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem. 14 And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your name.”
15 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children[b] of Israel. 16 For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name’s sake.”
17 And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized.
19 So when he had received food, he was strengthened. Then Saul spent some days with the disciples at Damascus.
Acts 9:10-19
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