Acts 22:16 Paul's salvation
- Thread starter dwight92070
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Yes, with most as I understand it. I believe there is the difference between the indwelling Holy Spirit which is for all baptized believers along with forgiveness and the empowering Holy Spirit which fell upon some for the working or signs, wonders and miracles.
I believe the indwelling Holy Spirit is the promised baptism in/with/by the Holy Spirit.
Yes. But I do not agree with infant baptism or with baptism as anything but immersion.
Johann
Well-known member
I. BAPTISM
The act of introducing or submerging under water, or being wash with water. In ancient tiems religious washing were common to pagan religions Before Christ, but the baptism that we find in the New Testament is derived from the Old Testament, and from the Intertestamentary Judaism.
The Law prescribed diferent types of washings with water:
To consecrate the Priest that served at the Tabernacle - Exodus 29:4 "Bring Aaron and his sons to the entrance of the Tent of my presence, and have them take a ritual bath.
Before entering the Tabernacle to minister before God - Exodus 30:20-21 "When they go into the tabernacle of the congregation, they shall wash with water, that they die not; or when they come near to the altar to minister, to burn offering made by fire unto the LORD: So they shall wash their hands and their feet, that they die not: and it shall be a statute for ever to them, even to him and to his seed throughout their generations."
The prophets also spoke of present, and future washing's:
Present - Isaiah 1:16 "Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;" Psalm 51:2 "Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin." Psalm 51:7 "Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow. "
Future - Ezekiel 36:25 "Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. " Joel 2:23 "Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month. "
Baptism was also prescribed to the gentile proselites, those who wanted to join the jewish community. This was also practiced by the Ezenians, who required those who joined them to renounce marraiges, but for the christian that lives under this age of grace, it posseses a different meaning and simbolism.
II. IT'S MEANING
The New Testament Baptism is an act of obedience to the Word of God, in which the one that is baptized testifies publicly his identification with Jesus Christ; the death of the old nature. When the individual comes out of the water, it typifies that the person has resurrected with Jesus Christ, and that he/she will be walking in newness of life (Romans 6:4).
The meaning of Baptism is found in the book of Romans chapter 6, verse 3-5:
"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: "
Being submerged under the water typifies the death of Jesus for us, in which the one that is baptized, acknowledges that he/she is a sinner, deserving the wages of sin. By doing this the individual is confessing publicly his/her faith on Him that died to redeem them from sin. The old nature is death, and when the person rises from the waters, he/she is professing their resurrection together with Jesus Christ.
Baptism does not give us the New Life, but is simply an external expression that the person has that Life, and that he/she has made the decision to walk in it.
I Peter 3:21 "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"
III. Being Born Again
Therefore, baptism in itself does not provide salvation unto a person. Instead each one individually is required to experience being born again.
John 3:3 "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. "
John 3:5-7 teaches the following:
"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. "
Many differing views has risen out of John 3:5 that states that: "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit". Some say that it is argument enough that settles that baptism is a requirement to be born again. But what is it that Jesus is trying to tell us?
How can we determine the meaning of the verse "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit" ? In order to accomplish this, we are going to use a principle established in the Second book of Peter 1:20, "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation".
This states that we are not allowed to interpret a biblical verse apart from what has been given to us in the scriptures. Therefore, we cannot give unto scriptures our own personal interpretation. The Bible is it's own interpreter, in the power and illumination of the Holy Spirit.
So let us take a look at other verses in the Bible, that teaches about being born again.
John 3:14-15 "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life."
Here we find another biblical principle, that states that we must first believe in Jesus, but it does not mention baptism as a requirement to be born again; just believing in HIM.
John 1:12-13 "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. "
Therefore, being born again happens when we believe, and then receive Jesus as our personal Lord and Savior of our lives. And this is something completed by God alone, not by men or by any efforts, which certainly excludes baptism. For baptism is an act of obedience to the Word of God, done through those men and woman that had decided to follow HIS WAYS.
James 1:18 explains that: "Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. "
Peter adds unto this in First Peter 1:23 that we are "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. I Peter 1:25 "And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you."
Therefore, the instrument that God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit has utilized for us to be born again is the Word of God, not water baptism.
Ephesians 5:26 gives us a definite example of water being used to symbolized the Word of God: "..That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,"
In the light of these verses, in conjunction with John 3:5, we can recognize the meaning of the verse that: "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God". Therefore, water here typifies the Word of God; The Gospel of Jesus Christ, by which God through the Holy Spirit, utilizes to bring about the New Birth.
Baptism
Main Text: Jesus drew near and said to them, "I have been given all authority in heaven and on earth. Go, then, to all peoples everywhere and make them my disciples: baptize them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and teach them to obey everything I have commanded you. And...
www.intothyword.org
You agree @Jim?
J.
Again, without intense study of all of that, I generally agree. I believe that born again of water and Spirit in John 3 was instituted by Peter at Pentecost in Acts 2:38. I think the water of John 3 is baptism. That doesn't exclude water as word also since it is from the word that one comes to believe in God. That is a precursor to being born again. But water as word does not preclude water baptism as the occasion for the repentant believer to be forgiven and receive the indwelling Holy Spirit.
civic
Well-known member
miracles, signs and wonders ended with the era of the Apostles.
Cessationism is the view that the “miracle gifts” of tongues and healing have ceased—that the end of the apostolic age brought about a cessation of the miracles associated with that age. Most cessationists believe that, while God can and still does perform miracles today, the Holy Spirit no longer uses individuals to perform miraculous signs.
The biblical record shows that miracles occurred during particular periods for the specific purpose of authenticating a new message from God. Moses was enabled to perform miracles to authenticate his ministry before Pharaoh (Exodus 4:1-8); Elijah was given miracles to authenticate his ministry before Ahab (1 Kings 17:1; 18:24); the apostles were given miracles to authenticate their ministry before Israel (Acts 4:10, 16).
Jesus’ ministry was also marked by miracles, which the Apostle John calls “signs” (John 2:11). John’s point is that the miracles were proofs of the authenticity of Jesus’ message.
After Jesus’ resurrection, as the Church was being established and the New Testament was being written, the apostles demonstrated “signs” such as tongues and the power to heal. “Tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not” (1 Corinthians 14:22, a verse that plainly says the gift was never intended to edify the church).
The Apostle Paul predicted that the gift of tongues would cease (1 Corinthians 13:8).
Here are 6 proofs that it has already ceased:
1) The apostles, through whom tongues came, were unique in the history of the church. Once their ministry was accomplished, the need for authenticating signs ceased to exist.
2) The miracle (or sign) gifts are only mentioned in the earliest Epistles, such as 1 Corinthians. Later books, such as Ephesians and Romans, contain detailed passages on the gifts of the Spirit, but the miracle gifts are not mentioned (although Romans does mention the gift of prophecy, the Greek word translated prophecy mean “speaking forth” and does not necessarily include prediction of the future).
3) The gift of tongues was a sign to unbelieving Israel that God’s salvation was now available to other nations. See 1 Corinthians 14:21-22 and Isaiah 28:11-12.
4) Tongues was an inferior gift to prophecy (preaching). Preaching the Word of God edifies believers, whereas tongues does not. Believers are told to seek prophesying over speaking in tongues (1 Corinthians 14:1-3).
5) History indicates that tongues did cease. Tongues are not mentioned at all by the Post-Apostolic Fathers. Other writers such as Justin Martyr, Origen, Chrysostom, and Augustine considered tongues something that happened only in the earliest days of the Church.
6) Current observation confirms that the miracle of tongues has ceased. If the gift were still available today, there would be no need for missionaries to attend language school. Missionaries would be able to travel to any country and speak any language fluently, just as the apostles were able to speak in Acts 2.As for the miracle gift of healing, we see in Scripture that healing was associated with the ministry of Jesus and the apostles (Luke 9:1-2). And we see that as the era of the apostles drew to a close, healing, like tongues, became less frequent. The Apostle Paul, who raised Eutychus from the dead (Acts 20:9-12), did not heal Epaphroditus (Philippians 2:25-27), Trophimus (2 Timothy 4:20), Timothy (1 Timothy 5:23), or even himself (2 Corinthians 12:7-9). The reasons for Paul’s “failures to heal” are 1) the gift was never intended to make every Christian well, but to authenticate apostleship; and 2) the authority of the apostles had been sufficiently proved, making further miracles unnecessary.
The reasons stated above are evidence that the sign gifts have ceased. According to 1 Corinthians 13:13-14:1, we would do well to “pursue love,” the greatest gift of all. If we are to desire gifts, we should desire to speak forth the Word of God, that all may be edified.got?
hope this helps !!!
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Johann
Well-known member
questions to ponder:
How is Jesus Christ displayed in your life as supremely greater than all?
Who is Jesus to you? What have you done with this knowledge? Do you see, feel, and know His Divine Fullness?
Do you realize that through Christ, we have everything that is important and effectual for eternity? What can you do to make this more effectual?
What can you do to better pay close attention to the teachings of the Word and not to false trends?
How do our apathy in Bible knowledge and foolish preoccupations cause us to drift away from the Word of God and His wondrous precepts and call?
What can you do to make sure you do not miss the real wonders and opportunities He has for you?
How and why is it our responsibility as leaders to learn and partake of His precepts? How can it help you to understand that God cares and empowers us?
How will you react and respond to His Word as well as signs and wonders from now on?
How can your reverence and gratitude for who and what Christ did help you in this quest to grow deeper in Him?
How long can you go on in your Christian faith without learning and growing? How will you lead your life or do what is right?
To do what is right, we have to know what is right; to grow in Christ, we have to know Christ, and we know Him by knowing His Word. For us to mature in our faith formation we have to grow; and we grow by listening to the solid food God has for us in His Word. We pay attention not just to the sign but to what the sign points to. In this way, we will be trained to know how to lead godly lives and be a resource and inspiration and perhaps an instructor in the ways of the faith to others too.
Praise the LORD. Blessed is the man who fears the LORD, who finds great delight in his commands. Psalm 112:1
The goal of the Christian life is our wondrous fear and zeal of a friendship with Christ! We start with Him and we end well with Him. We are to receive His election, to know and pursue Him. He is the One we are to follow, not the ways of distraction and destruction. This is the wonder of simplicity that is to fulfill and sustain us. Our Zeal is to know Him and make Him known to others with clarity and honesty empowered by His Spirit, for His glory!
© 2006, R. J. Krejcir Ph.D. , Into Thy Word Ministries
J.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
Not according to Scripture
Yes according to scripture
Cornelius had it before water baptism
The Samaritans after water baptism
Doug Brents
Well-known member
As has been demonstrated with Scripture, what you say is only according to your twisted understanding. The Samaritans received the indwelling when they were baptized, before they received miraculous signs. Cornelius received the indwelling when he was baptized, after he received miraculous signs.
Johann
Well-known member
The basic premise of your statement holds, but it may need a bit more detail to fully align with the specific sequences presented in the Bible. The order of events for the Samaritans and Cornelius reflects two different circumstances of receiving the Holy Spirit, but both situations show God’s sovereignty in how the Holy Spirit is dispensed.
For further clarification on this topic, examining the specific texts in Acts 8 and Acts 10 is helpful, as well as exploring scholarly commentary on these events.
J.
Sorry you denied scripture and contradicted your own testimony
To Be indwelt is to receive the Spirit
John 7:38–39 (KJV 1900) — 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
the Samaritans had not received the spirit
Acts 8:14–17 (KJV 1900) — 14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
It is your theology not scripture which claims they had been indwelt previous to the arrival of the apostles
Indeed, Cornelius received the Holy Spirit before water baptism and the Samaritans after.
Johann
Well-known member
Correct.
Cornelius and His Household (Acts 10):
Cornelius, a devout Gentile centurion, and his household received the Holy Spirit before water baptism. While Peter was still speaking to them about Jesus, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, evident through them speaking in tongues and praising God. This event demonstrated that the Gentiles were also recipients of the Holy Spirit and could be included in the Christian community. Peter then instructed them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.
The Samaritans (Acts 8):
In the case of the Samaritans, they believed Philip's preaching about Jesus, but they had not yet received the Holy Spirit. Peter and John were sent to lay hands on them so that they might receive the Holy Spirit. This subsequent impartation of the Holy Spirit emphasized the unity of the Church and confirmed the Samaritans' inclusion in the body of Christ. The Samaritans were baptized after receiving the Holy Spirit.
J.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
The Samaritans were saved before the Apostles Peter and John were sent to them; they had received the Word, believed it, and been baptized into Christ (Acts 8:12-13). And all who have been saved have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (Rom 8:9-11). And after the Apostles came they laid hands on the Samaritans and the Holy Spirit fell ON them, giving them miraculous signs.
Cornelius received miraculous signs first, when the Holy Spirit fell ON him, and later received the indwelling when he was baptized in water into Christ (Acts 10:47). If salvation had been received when the Holy Spirit fell on him, then there would have been no need to have baptized him in water, since (if it is only an "outward sign of an inward change") the outward sign of the miraculous empowerment of the Spirit would have been much more of a sign than water baptism. But, because as we see in Rom 6:1-7 and Col 2:11-14 and 1 Pet 3:21 salvation is received when we are baptized in water as God commands.
Only adherence to an a priori theology would cause a denial of these facts.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
Wrong.
The Holy Spirit fell ON, not into, Cornelius. He received the gift of tongues and praise, not indwelling. The forgiveness of their sins and the indwelling of the Spirit was received when they were baptized in water.
They had not received miraculous signs yet, but they had the indwelling as all saved and forgiven people do. The Samaritans were baptized long before Peter and John were sent to them.
