Doug Brents
Well-known member
No, adherence to the continuity of Scripture causes the denial of those false statements.
Acts 22:16 Paul's salvation
- Thread starter dwight92070
- Start date
I quoted the scriptures and they did not support you
also note
Acts 10:45–47 (KJV 1900) — 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
The holy Spirit was received before water baptism
Johann
Well-known member
Brother I'm more than willing to help but this is going nowhere-these infighting's not edifying and you don't seem to consult the grammar and morphology of the text before you. Nor the bigger picture.
Transliteration: epepesen
Morphology: V-AIA-3S
Verb - Aorist Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's no.: G1968 (ἐπιπίπτω)
Meaning: To fall upon, press upon, light upon, come over.
"had been poured out" This is a perfect passive indicative. Pouring was part of the OT sacrificial system. It was predicted of the Spirit in Joe_2:28 and quoted by Peter in his Pentecostal sermon (cf. Act_2:17; Act_2:33). The Spirit has been fully and permanently given to believers by God.
Passage (Acts 10:44-46, ESV)
"While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles. For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God."
Grammar and Morphological Analysis
"While Peter was still saying these things"
Grammar: This is a dependent clause beginning with "while," indicating that the actions described in the main clause happen simultaneously with Peter’s speaking.
Morphology:
"was still saying": This is a past continuous tense form, emphasizing ongoing action. The verb “saying” in Greek (λέγων, legōn) is in the present participle, showing that Peter’s speech was in progress when the Spirit descended.
"the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word"
Grammar: The main clause of the sentence, with "the Holy Spirit" as the subject and "fell on" as the verb-phrase.
Morphology:
"fell on": The Greek verb used here (ἐπέπεσεν, epépesen) comes from the root ἐπιπίπτω (epipiptō), meaning “to fall upon” or “to come upon suddenly.” It’s an aorist active indicative verb, suggesting a completed, one-time action in the past.
>>This is where you are going wrong @Doug Brents<<
"all who heard": The word “all” is inclusive, showing that everyone present received the Spirit’s outpouring. “Heard” uses an aorist participle in Greek (ἀκούσαντες, akousantes), indicating that this action was complete (they had heard the word already), likely preparing them for the Spirit’s arrival.
"And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed"
Grammar: This is a compound sentence, and this part introduces a new clause describing the reaction of the Jewish believers who witnessed the event.
Morphology:
"the believers from among the circumcised": This phrase refers to the Jewish Christians, distinguished by the term circumcised (περιτομῆς, peritomēs), a noun denoting those who followed Jewish laws.
"were amazed": The verb in Greek (ἐξέστησαν, exéstēsan) means "were astonished" and is in the aorist tense, again suggesting that their amazement was immediate and complete in that moment.
"because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles"
Grammar: This is a dependent clause explaining why the Jewish believers were amazed.
Morphology:
"gift of the Holy Spirit": "Gift" (δωρεά, dōrea) is a noun meaning a free gift or blessing, paired with “Holy Spirit” to show that this gift was directly from God and, importantly, unearned.
"was poured out": In Greek, ἐκκέχυται (ekkechytai) is a perfect passive indicative, indicating an action with present implications: the Spirit has been poured out and remains upon them.
"even on the Gentiles": The use of “even” (καὶ, kai) emphasizes that this action was unexpected because the Gentiles (non-Jews) were receiving a blessing previously associated with the Jewish community.
"For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God"
Grammar: This independent clause explains the evidence of the Spirit’s presence. “For” introduces an explanation, connecting the Gentiles’ actions to the Spirit’s outpouring.
Morphology:
"were hearing": A continuous imperfect tense (ἤκουον, ēkouon) shows an ongoing action—they kept hearing the Gentiles speak in tongues.
"speaking in tongues": "Speaking" (λαλοῦντας, lalountas) is a present participle indicating continuous action, while "tongues" (γλώσσαις, glōssais) implies foreign languages or ecstatic speech.
"extolling God": "Extolling" (μεγαλυνόντων, megalynontōn) is another present participle, signifying an ongoing, vocal praise. This verb emphasizes the act of magnifying or glorifying God, showing a deep, spontaneous reaction to the Spirit’s work.
The Holy Ghost fell (epepesen to pneuma to hagion). Second aorist active indicative of epipiptō, old verb to fall upon, to recline, to come upon. Used of the Holy Spirit in Act_8:16; Act_10:44; Act_11:15. It appears that Peter was interrupted in his sermon by this remarkable event. The Jews had received the Holy Spirit (Act_2:4), the Samaritans (Act_8:17), and now Gentiles.
But on this occasion it was before baptism, as was apparently true in Paul’s case (Act_9:17.). In Act_8:16; Act_19:5 the hands of the apostles were also placed after baptism on those who received the Holy Spirit. Here it was unexpected by Peter and by Cornelius and was indubitable proof of the conversion of these Gentiles who had accepted Peter’s message and had believed on Jesus Christ as Saviour.
Robertson.
“The Holy Ghost,” said the Jews, “never fell upon a Gentile”. Bengel comments, “Alias baptismus susceptus est ante adventum Spiritus Sancti … Liberum gratia habet ordinem”.—ἀκούοντας, as in Act_10:33.
When in doubt, consult the grammar friend-it's free, gratis, nada.
J.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
All who heard the Word received the same outpouring of the Spirit. But Peter and the Jews with him already had the indwelling of the Spirit. So they didn't receive another dose, as it were, of the indwelling. No, they received another dose of His empowerment.
Yes, the Jews were amazed, because they did not expect the Gentiles to be blessed with the Holy Spirit also. But the blessing of the Spirit which the Gentiles received was a visible blessing that the Jews experienced with them, they could see and hear the blessing. This is not the indwelling of the Spirit that is only experienced by the individual, it is not seen or heard by anyone other than the person indwelt.
On this occasion, the Holy Spirit came upon the Gentile in a visible experience first, and then when they were baptized in water He came into residence in their hearts.
Ananias was sent to Paul so that he could receive back his sight, and so that he could receive the Holy Spirit. The phrasing of Acts 9:17 does not indicate that Paul received the Holy Spirit before he was baptized, only that Ananias was sent to him so that he could receive the Holy Spirit. Paul, like everyone else received the indwelling of the Spirit when he was baptized, just as everyone else does, as is indicated by what Paul says in Acts 22:16.
When the people in these two passages were baptized into Christ, they received the indwelling of the Spirit, and then the Apostle's hands were laid upon them and they received miraculous empowerment from the Holy Spirit through the Apostles.
Cornelius was not converted, was not saved, was not forgiven, was not in Christ until he was baptized in water into Christ shortly after the Spirit fell on him in power and signs.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
You quoted that one passage, but your narrow view of that one passage does not fit with the rest of Scripture. I am not disputing in the least that the Gentiles received the Holy Spirit's empowerment before they were baptized into Christ, but His empowerment of them does not equate to His indwelling them, nor does it equate to their forgiveness or salvation.
Johann
Well-known member
Let me know when you want an intelligent discussion-you are reinterpreting what was posted to you.
J.
So you say but the facts stand
The Gentiles received the Spirit before water baptism.
The Samaritans received the Spirit after water baptism.
These are facts
Behold
Well-known member
What Paul actually teaches is that there is a Gospel, that is for the "time of the Gentiles", and Paul is the chosen to be the "Apostle to the Gentiles"... and after Paul became an Apostle, Jesus gave to Paul, what Paul refers to 3x in the NT... : as "MY Gospel"...
So, THIS Gospel, is given to Paul, and its the "preaching of the Cross".....as "this is the POWER OF GOD... unto Salvation"....
Paul said, "WE... (thats the True Believers), preach CHRIST CRUCIFIED".....
This is "the Gospel of the Grace of God">> and that is Paul's Gospel.
Not Water Baptism.
Not Acts 2:38
Not Law and Commandment keeping.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
There is no difference between the Gospel that Paul preached, and the Gospel that Peter preached. Same Gospel, same cross, same Jesus, same requirements for receiving salvation.
Faith
John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Grace ambassador
Well-known member
There is a BIG Difference; please read and study ALL Of Holy Scripture prayerfully and Carefully!:
I have decided to follow Jesus?
Amen.
Eph 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit--just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call-- 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Baptism with water is baptism with the Holy Spirit.
Absolutely! ! ! There is ONE FAITH, therefore ONE GOSPEL ! ! !
Eph 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit--just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call-- 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Nope. Baptism with the Spirit is baptism with water. There is only one baptism with two consequential results. The Spirit falling upon for the purpose of working signs, wonders and miracles has nothing to do with baptism and being saved.
Sorry, the gentiles were baptized en the Spirit before water baptism.
Acts 11:15–17 (KJV 1900) — 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
The Holy Spirit fell on them just as He did with the apostles in Acts 2:4. That is not baptism with the Holy Spirit. That has nothing to do with being saved. Baptism with the Holy Spirit is what was recorded in Acts 2:38.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
That is not a difference. Peter preached faith in Jesus, Paul preached faith in Jesus, James preached faith in Jesus. It is still the same Gospel.
Who stated it was other than by faith?
Did you not read ?
Acts 11:15–17 (KJV 1900) — 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
