Acts 22:16 Paul's salvation

[Doug Brents]

No the grammar of the English language indicates it was the Spirit they received, and not a gift from the Spirit as your theology requires



Any proof for that claim as scripture

John 7:38–39 (UASV) — 38 Whoever puts faith in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’(indwelling) ” 39 Now this he said about the spirit, whom those who put faith in him were to receive, (reception of the spirit)for as yet the spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

clearly equated them


BTW you assume the men in Acts 8 had the indwelling of the Spirit

The text does not say so

You are assuming your view thus begging the question

I do not "assume" anything here. The Holy Spirit indwelling the heart is the seal of our salvation. He is received in the heart the instant that the person is saved in water baptism. And the men in Acts 8, as mentioned above, had been baptized into Christ, so they had received the indwelling of the Spirit. But they had not yet received, or even know that there was, miraculous empowerment from the Holy Spirit. The two are different, and neither requires the presence of the other: miraculous empowerment does not require salvation (indwelling of the Spirit), and salvation (indwelling of the Spirit) does not require miraculous empowerment.

 

[TomL]

I do not "assume" anything here. The Holy Spirit indwelling the heart is the seal of our salvation. He is received in the heart the instant that the person is saved in water baptism. And the men in Acts 8, as mentioned above, had been baptized into Christ, so they had received the indwelling of the Spirit. But they had not yet received, or even know that there was, miraculous empowerment from the Holy Spirit. The two are different, and neither requires the presence of the other: miraculous empowerment does not require salvation (indwelling of the Spirit), and salvation (indwelling of the Spirit) does not require miraculous empowerment.

You are assuming your views again while ignoring the scripture I posted

John 7:38–39 (UASV) — 38 Whoever puts faith in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’(indwelling) ” 39 Now this he said about the spirit, whom those who put faith in him were to receive, (reception of the spirit)for as yet the spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

The indwelling and the reception of the Spirit under the new covenant are equated

This is what the gentiles received before water baptism

Acts 10:45–48 (UASV) — 45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and magnifying God. Then Peter answered, 47 “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.

 

[Doug Brents]

You are assuming your views again while ignoring the scripture I posted

John 7:38–39 (UASV) — 38 Whoever puts faith in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’(indwelling) ” 39 Now this he said about the spirit, whom those who put faith in him were to receive, (reception of the spirit)for as yet the spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

The indwelling and the reception of the Spirit under the new covenant are equated

Not in every case. As has been shown, the men in Acts 8 had the indwelling, but they did not have miraculous empowerment. Those who are in Christ have the indwelling, they have received the Spirit. But not all who have the indwelling exhibit miraculous empowerment, and not all who have miraculous empowerment have the indwelling of the Spirit. But both are said to have "received the Spirit". The Spirit manifests in numerous ways, and all of them are called "receiving the Spirit".

This is what the gentiles received before water baptism

Acts 10:45–48 (UASV) — 45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and magnifying God. Then Peter answered, 47 “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.

The Gentiles received miraculous empowerment, but not indwelling, because indwelling is only for those who are in Christ, and the Gentiles were not yet in Christ. You cannot be in Christ until you are baptized in water into Him, which is where you receive forgiveness of sin, resurrection to new life, are grafted into Christ, and receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38, Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14, Eph 5:26-27, Gal 3:26-27, 1 Pet 3:21).

 

[mailmandan]

Both are a miraculous (altering of the natural order) empowerment of the Holy Spirit? Thus, the Holy Spirit can empower whomever (or whatever) He chooses. It is not just within the Church that His gifts can be bestowed.

Your flawed logic does not justify your efforts to negate Acts 10:43-47. Period.

 

[Doug Brents]

Your flawed logic does not justify your efforts to negate Acts 10:43-47. Period.

My logic is not flawed, you just don't like the conclusions because they disagree with your preconceived false doctrine.

 

[TomL]

Not in every case. As has been shown, the men in Acts 8 had the indwelling, but they did not have miraculous empowerment. Those who are in Christ have the indwelling, they have received the Spirit. But not all who have the indwelling exhibit miraculous empowerment, and not all who have miraculous empowerment have the indwelling of the Spirit. But both are said to have "received the Spirit". The Spirit manifests in numerous ways, and all of them are called "receiving the Spirit".

No. The text does not state they were indwelt by the Spirit. You assume that based on your theology

which ignores the following facts

Receiving the Spirit refers to the indwelling

And the gentiles received the spirit before water baptism

The Gentiles received miraculous empowerment, but not indwelling, because indwelling is only for those who are in Christ, and the Gentiles were not yet in Christ. You cannot be in Christ until you are baptized in water into Him, which is where you receive forgiveness of sin, resurrection to new life, are grafted into Christ, and receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38, Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14, Eph 5:26-27, Gal 3:26-27, 1 Pet 3:21).

Again you are begging the question and ignoring the facts

They received the Spirit - a testimony as to their belief

As a result they should not be denied the rite of baptism

and they had received repentance unto life and had their heart purified by faith

 

[mailmandan]

My logic is not flawed, you just don't like the conclusions because they disagree with your preconceived false doctrine.

Oh, the irony.

 

[Doug Brents]

No. The text does not state they were indwelt by the Spirit. You assume that based on your theology

which ignores the following facts

Receiving the Spirit refers to the indwelling

And the gentiles received the spirit before water baptism

The Holy Spirit indwells all those who are in Christ (Eph 1:13-14). He is the first installment of the gift of eternal life. All who belong to Christ have, within them already, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The men in Acts 8 had already been baptized into Christ; they had believed in Him, and received salvation through baptism. Thus they had the indwelling of the Spirit. This is not my assumption; it is Biblical truth.

Receiving the Spirit can mean many different things.
We can receive the Spirit through His indwelling, as do all who are saved in Christ.
We can receive the Spirit through His natural empowerment as the artisans of Israel who built the Tabernacle did.
We can receive the Spirit through His miraculous empowerment as the Apostles did when they were sent out two by two.
There are many other examples of people receiving the Spirit, and most of them do not indicate that they received the indwelling of the Spirit.

Again you are begging the question

Begging what question? I have asked or invited no question.

and ignoring the facts

Nor am I ignoring facts. I am presenting facts to you and you are ignoring them in favor of your preconception.

They received the Spirit - a testimony as to their belief

They received the Spirit as a testimony to the Jews that God was allowing Gentiles into the Church as well as the Jews. These Gentiles already believed in God. But they needed to hear about, believe in, and obey Jesus in order to be admitted into the Church. They heard about Jesus from Peter, they believed his message, the Holy Spirit fell on them in tongues and praise confirming to the Gentiles what Peter had preached and confirming to the Jews that the Gentiles were going to be added to the Church, and then the Gentiles were baptized into Christ where they received the indwelling of the Spirit and were added to the Church.

As a result they should not be denied the rite of baptism

and they had received repentance unto life and had their heart purified by faith

Their hearts were purified by faith through baptism. You continue to refuse to admit the truth: faith without action is dead and worthless. Faith without action cannot save. There is no salvation without doing what God says leads to receiving salvation. When the Spirit fell ON (not into) the Gentiles, they still had exhibited no faith in the Gospel Peter preached to them, so they could not have been saved at that point.

 

[TomL]

The Holy Spirit indwells all those who are in Christ (Eph 1:13-14). He is the first installment of the gift of eternal life. All who belong to Christ have, within them already, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The men in Acts 8 had already been baptized into Christ; they had believed in Him, and received salvation through baptism. Thus they had the indwelling of the Spirit. This is not my assumption; it is Biblical truth.

Under the New covenant after the resurrection of Christ and the sending of the spirit Done sequentially first among the Jews, then the Samaritans and then the gentiles in that order

The Spirit was not received by the Samaritans according to scripture until

Acts 8:14–17 (ESV) — 14 Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John, 15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 for he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then they laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit.

The spirit was not received by water baptism

and the gentiles received the Spirit before water baptism

Acts 10:47–48 (ESV) — 47 “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.

Receiving the Spirit can mean many different things.

You have not shown that

On the other hand I showed where it refers to the indwelling

John 7:38–39 (ESV) — 38 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’(indwelling) ” 39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, (reception of the Spirit)for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

We can receive the Spirit through His indwelling, as do all who are saved in Christ.

The only way men are stated to receive the spirit

We can receive the Spirit through His natural empowerment as the artisans of Israel who built the Tabernacle did.

You have not produced anything which speaks of receiving the Spirit

Those are empowerments

We can receive the Spirit through His miraculous empowerment as the Apostles did when they were sent out two by two.

Again you provide nothing show receiving the spirit is just empowerment

And actually deny the words "receive the spirit"

It is the spirit which is received not an empowerment according to the words

There are many other examples of people receiving the Spirit, and most of them do not indicate that they received the indwelling of the Spirit.

You have not posted any

Why?

Where do you see the words receive the spirit and the text notes only an empowerment is meant?

 

[Doug Brents]

Under the New covenant after the resurrection of Christ and the sending of the spirit Done sequentially first among the Jews, then the Samaritans and then the gentiles in that order

The Spirit was not received by the Samaritans according to scripture until

Acts 8:14–17 (ESV) — 14 Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John, 15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 for he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then they laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit.

The spirit was not received by water baptism

and the gentiles received the Spirit before water baptism

Acts 10:47–48 (ESV) — 47 “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.

Again, you are assuming that "receive the Spirit" means the indwelling of the Spirit. It does not always mean that. The Apostles received the indwelling of the Spirit just after Jesus was resurrected in John 20:22, but they received the empowerment of the Spirit on Pentecost in Acts 2:4.
The Samaritans received the indwelling of the Spirit when they were baptized into Christ (Eph 1:13-14, 1 Pet 3:21, Acts 8:16). The first Gentiles brought into the Church received miraculous empowerment from the Spirit when He fell ON them in Acts 10:44-45, and then received the indwelling of the Spirit when they were baptized in water (Acts 10:48, Eph 1:13-14, 1 Pet 3:21).

You have not shown that

On the other hand I showed where it refers to the indwelling

John 7:38–39 (ESV) — 38 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’(indwelling) ” 39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, (reception of the Spirit)for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Certainly the rivers of living water flowing out of the hearts of those who are in Christ is the indwelling, but what about the people who had the Holy Spirit before Jesus was glorified? They had the Holy Spirit, had received Him, He had fallen on them, but they were not indwelt. How is it possible for them to have the Spirit and yet not have the indwelling if "having the Spirit" always means the indwelling? The answer is, it doesn't always mean indwelling.

You have not produced anything which speaks of receiving the Spirit

Those are empowerments

Exactly, empowerments. The Spirit came upon certain judges, warriors, and prophets in a way that gave them extraordinary power: for example, Joshua (Numbers 27:18), Othniel (Judges 3:10), Gideon (Judges 6:34), Samson (Judges 13:25; 14:6), and Saul (1 Samuel 10:9, 10). However, the Spirit later departed from Saul because of his disobedience (1 Samuel 16:14). Yet none of these were indwelt by the Spirit. David had the Spirit and begged God not to take Him from him in Psalm 51:11, yet even he was not indwelt by the Spirit.

Again you provide nothing show receiving the spirit is just empowerment

And actually deny the words "receive the spirit"

It is the spirit which is received not an empowerment according to the words

I have, but you deny the validity of OT Scripture. You claim that because the Covenant changed, the character of God has changed so that He no longer can empower us without indwelling us. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Spirit gives gifts where He will (1 Cor 12:11), and not all of His empowering gifts go to those in the Church (John 16:8-11).

You have not posted any

Why?

Where do you see the words receive the spirit and the text notes only an empowerment is meant?

Acts 2:4
Acts 4:8 & 4:31
Eph 5:18-19
Acts 8:14

 

[TomL]

Again, you are assuming that "receive the Spirit" means the indwelling of the Spirit. It does not always mean that. The Apostles received the indwelling of the Spirit just after Jesus was resurrected in John 20:22, but they received the empowerment of the Spirit on Pentecost in Acts 2:4.
The Samaritans received the indwelling of the Spirit when they were baptized into Christ (Eph 1:13-14, 1 Pet 3:21, Acts 8:16). The first Gentiles brought into the Church received miraculous empowerment from the Spirit when He fell ON them in Acts 10:44-45, and then received the indwelling of the Spirit when they were baptized in water (Acts 10:48, Eph 1:13-14, 1 Pet 3:21).

Actually I quoted scripture and assumed nothing

John 7:38–39 (KJV 1900) — 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

What the apostle received in John 20:22 was a temporary filling from Jesus and not from the spirit coming upon them

The samaritan had plainly not received the Spirit

Acts 8:14–17 (KJV 1900) — 14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

so you are just contradicting scripture

And the gentiles were stated to receive the spirit

Acts 10:43–47 (KJV 1900) — 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

You are substituting your theology for the word of God

Certainly the rivers of living water flowing out of the hearts of those who are in Christ is the indwelling, but what about the people who had the Holy Spirit before Jesus was glorified? They had the Holy Spirit, had received Him, He had fallen on them, but they were not indwelt. How is it possible for them to have the Spirit and yet not have the indwelling if "having the Spirit" always means the indwelling? The answer is, it doesn't always mean indwelling.

Provide proof for your claim

Cite scripture stating they received the spirit, otherwise you are merely citing the dictates of your theology

John 7:38–39 (KJV 1900) — 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

According to this verse the spirit was not yet received

 

[TomL]

Again, you are assuming that "receive the Spirit" means the indwelling of the Spirit. It does not always mean that. The Apostles received the indwelling of the Spirit just after Jesus was resurrected in John 20:22, but they received the empowerment of the Spirit on Pentecost in Acts 2:4.
The Samaritans received the indwelling of the Spirit when they were baptized into Christ (Eph 1:13-14, 1 Pet 3:21, Acts 8:16).

Have you failed to see how illogical your argument concerning the Samaritans is?

You have agreed the indwelling is receiving the Spirit

The text states they had not received the Spirit

You cannot therefore claim the Samaritans were indwelt (and therefore had received the Spirit consequently) without contradicting yourself

Your argument is busted here

 

[Doug Brents]

Have you failed to see how illogical your argument concerning the Samaritans is?

You have agreed the indwelling is receiving the Spirit

That is like saying that wet is water. Everything that is water is wet, but not everything that is wet is water. While the indwelling is "receiving the Spirit", not everything that is "receiving the Spirit" is the indwelling.

The text states they had not received the Spirit

You cannot therefore claim the Samaritans were indwelt (and therefore had received the Spirit consequently) without contradicting yourself

Your argument is busted here

There is no contradiction. They had received the indwelling of the Spirit (which cannot be seen), but they had not received miraculous empowerment of the Spirit (which can be seen). That is what Simon was trying to buy from the Apostles: the ability to lay hands on people and give them the miraculous empowerment of the Spirit.

Actually I quoted scripture and assumed nothing

John 7:38–39 (KJV 1900) — 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

What the apostle received in John 20:22 was a temporary filling from Jesus and not from the spirit coming upon them

Oh really? Where does Scripture say that was a temporary filling? It is not in Scripture, so that is an assumption on your part.

The samaritan had plainly not received the Spirit

Acts 8:14–17 (KJV 1900) — 14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

so you are just contradicting scripture

I am not contradicting Scripture at all. I am rightly understanding what "received the Spirit" means in this context.

And the gentiles were stated to receive the spirit

Acts 10:43–47 (KJV 1900) — 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

You are substituting your theology for the word of God

Again, to rightly understand what "received the Holy Ghost" means here is important. Those who are not in Christ can not receive the indwelling of the Spirit (for He is the first installment of our inheritance in Christ, but they can receive empowerment from Him (in fact they must receive empowerment from Him to believe the Gospel). And only those who have been baptized (in water) are in Christ (Acts 2:38, Col 2:11-14, Rom 6:1-7, 1 Pet 3:21). So these Gentiles could not have received the indwelling of the Spirit because they were not in Christ; they were still in sin.

Provide proof for your claim

Cite scripture stating they received the spirit, otherwise you are merely citing the dictates of your theology

John 7:38–39 (KJV 1900) — 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

According to this verse the spirit was not yet received

I have already posted multiple passages which state that people in the Old Testament had the Holy Spirit on them (but not indwelling them). But since you have chosen to ignore those passages, I will post them again.
Joshua (Numbers 27:18) - "Take Joshua the son of Nun, a man in whom is the Spirit..."
Othniel (Judges 3:10) - "And the Spirit of the Lord came upon him ..."
Gideon (Judges 6:34) - " So the Spirit of the Lord covered Gideon like clothing ..."
Samson (Judges 13:25; 14:6) - "And the Spirit of the Lord began to stir him when he was in Mahaneh-dan ..." "And the Spirit of the Lord rushed upon him"
Saul (1 Samuel 10:9, 10) - "and the Spirit of God rushed upon him ..."
Daniel (Psalm 51:11) - "do not take Your Holy Spirit from me." implying that he already had the Holy Spirit on him.
And many more.

 

[TomL]

That is like saying that wet is water. Everything that is water is wet, but not everything that is wet is water. While the indwelling is "receiving the Spirit", not everything that is "receiving the Spirit" is the indwelling.

There is no contradiction. They had received the indwelling of the Spirit (which cannot be seen), but they had not received miraculous empowerment of the Spirit (which can be seen). That is what Simon was trying to buy from the Apostles: the ability to lay hands on people and give them the miraculous empowerment of the Spirit.

Did you really think this trough?

You agreed the indwelling is receiving the Spirit

The text states they had not received the Spirit

If they were indwelt then according to your own agreement they received the Spirit

The text however states they did not

That is a major contradiction

 

[Fred]

And you assume that "received the Holy Spirit" means that they received the indwelling of the Spirit. But that is not the truth.

If a person has received the Holy Spirit is to have the Holy Spirit dwell in them.

1 Corinthians
(2:12) Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us by God.
(3:6) Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?


Cornelius and the other Gentiles with him received the Holy Spirit.
Acts 10:47
Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?


Therefore, they had the Holy Spirit dwell in them - before their water baptism (Acts 10:48).

 

[TomL]

If a person has received the Holy Spirit is to have the Holy Spirit dwell in them.

1 Corinthians
(2:12) Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us by God.
(3:6) Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?


Cornelius and the other Gentiles with him received the Holy Spirit.
Acts 10:47
Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?


Therefore, they had the Holy Spirit dwell in them - before their water baptism (Acts 10:48).

Amen

Also

John 14:16–17 (KJV 1900) — 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

 

[Jim]

If a person has received the Holy Spirit is to have the Holy Spirit dwell in them.

1 Corinthians
(2:12) Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us by God.
(3:6) Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?


Cornelius and the other Gentiles with him received the Holy Spirit.
Acts 10:47
Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?


Therefore, they had the Holy Spirit dwell in them - before their water baptism (Acts 10:48).

And that is but one more reason why there is so much confusion and conflicting beliefs in Christendom. There is a difference in the works of the Holy Spirit in His dealings with mankind. Falling upon or being filled with and dwelling in are two separate and different works of the Holy Spirit. Not understanding that or not admitting to that will necessarily result in a lot that is incorrect and too often just plain wrong.

Exo 35:30 Then Moses said to the people of Israel, "See, the LORD has called by name Bezalel the son of Uri, son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah;
Exo 35:31 and he has filled him with the Spirit of God, with skill, with intelligence, with knowledge, and with all craftsmanship,
Exo 35:32 to devise artistic designs, to work in gold and silver and bronze,
Exo 35:33 in cutting stones for setting, and in carving wood, for work in every skilled craft.
Exo 35:34 And he has inspired him to teach, both him and Oholiab the son of Ahisamach of the tribe of Dan.
Exo 35:35 He has filled them with skill to do every sort of work done by an engraver or by a designer or by an embroiderer in blue and purple and scarlet yarns and fine twined linen, or by a weaver--by any sort of workman or skilled designer.

That is a description of being filled with the Holy Spirit that has absolutely nothing to do will indwelling one who has been justified.

 

[Fred]

Falling upon or being filled with and dwelling in are two separate and different works of the Holy Spirit.

When the Holy Spirit filled those in Acts 2:4 the Holy Spirit dwelt in them.

Not understanding that or not admitting to that will necessarily result in a lot that is incorrect and too often just plain wrong.

The below is Old Covenant so it does not apply.

Exo 35:30 Then Moses said to the people of Israel, "See, the LORD has called by name Bezalel the son of Uri, son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah;
Exo 35:31 and he has filled him with the Spirit of God, with skill, with intelligence, with knowledge, and with all craftsmanship,
Exo 35:32 to devise artistic designs, to work in gold and silver and bronze,
Exo 35:33 in cutting stones for setting, and in carving wood, for work in every skilled craft.
Exo 35:34 And he has inspired him to teach, both him and Oholiab the son of Ahisamach of the tribe of Dan.
Exo 35:35 He has filled them with skill to do every sort of work done by an engraver or by a designer or by an embroiderer in blue and purple and scarlet yarns and fine twined linen, or by a weaver--by any sort of workman or skilled designer.

That is a description of being filled with the Holy Spirit that has absolutely nothing to do will indwelling one who has been justified.

 

[Jim]

When the Holy Spirit filled those in Acts 2:4 the Holy Spirit dwelt in them.

Only according to you.

The below is Old Covenant so it does not apply.

Only according to you.

Question. Are you Pentecostal?

 

[Fred]

Only according to you.

Did those in Acts 2:4 not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?

Only according to you.

According to Hebrews 8:13.

Question. Are you Pentecostal?

No.