Acts 22:16 Paul's salvation

The donkey did not receive the spiritual gift of tongues which is only for the body of Christ in 1 Corinthians 12. Once again, the Lord simply opened the mouth of the donkey to speak in order to rebuke Balaam. Period. I can't believe that you are doubling down on your ludicrous argument! You even gave it the title, "the gift of speech." The donkey speaking had absolutely nothing to do with the spiritual gift of tongues for saved believers. Ephesians 1:13 has everything to do with believers receiving the Holy Spirit and lost unbelievers do not receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Why don't you show me in scripture where lost unbelievers have received the gift of the Holy Spirit and/or the spiritual gift of tongues. These gifts are restricted only to the Church, the body of Christ. 1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
I am not discounting that it is by one Spirit that we are brought into the one body of Christ. That is absolute truth, and I have already affirmed such.

But the Holy Spirit did empower the donkey to speak. You said yourself above, that the Lord (the Holy Spirit) "opened the mouth of the donkey to speak; thus, the donkey received from the Holy Spirit the gift of speech. Donkeys do not speak naturally, thus it was a supernatural working of the Spirit that caused the donkey to be able to speak. This is clear evidence that the Holy Spirit can, and does, give His gifts wherever He chooses, and to whom (or what) ever He chooses.
 
I am not discounting that it is by one Spirit that we are brought into the one body of Christ. That is absolute truth, and I have already affirmed such.

But the Holy Spirit did empower the donkey to speak. You said yourself above, that the Lord (the Holy Spirit) "opened the mouth of the donkey to speak; thus, the donkey received from the Holy Spirit the gift of speech. Donkeys do not speak naturally, thus it was a supernatural working of the Spirit that caused the donkey to be able to speak. This is clear evidence that the Holy Spirit can, and does, give His gifts wherever He chooses, and to whom (or what) ever He chooses.
Does nothing at all to counter the fact the gentiles were baptized en the Spirit and had received the Spirit
 
So your claim that the baptism en the Spirit is simply an empowerment to speak in tongues is self refuted
No, "baptism en the Spirit" (the indwelling of the Spirit) is completely different than His empowerment to speak in tongues. Neither one requires the other. There have been some who received the gift of tongues but did not have the indwelling presence of the Lord, and there have been many (everyone in the Church today) who have the indwelling presence of the Lord but do not have the gift of tongues.
And so again It was not a baptism en the Spirit the donkey received as per your original argument

and you have no argument that it was

You are left with the fact the gentiles were baptized en the Spirit and received the Spirit before water baptism


Sorry the text states they received the Spirit. It also states they were baptized en the Spirit. It does not state they received only a miraculous empowerment

You are twisting and contorting scripture to support your theology
You are conflating every gift of the Spirit into the one phrase "received the gift of the Spirit". Just because someone received "the gift of the Spirit" does not mean that they received the indwelling of the Spirit. In some places in Scripture it does mean that, but in other places it just means that they received miraculous empowerment. You have to read the context to see what it was that they received. In Acts 10:45-46, we see clearly what it was that the Gentiles received. "because the gift of the Holy Spirit had also been poured out on the Gentiles. 46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God." First off, the Spirit was poured out "ON" not in or "en" the Gentiles. Secondly, they received only the gift of tongues and praise from the Spirit, not the indwelling presence of the Spirit.
 
I would like to recommend to any and all of you who are truly interested in the work of the Holy Spirit the book by Jack Cottrell, Power From On Hight, What the Bible says about the Holy Spirit, Published by College Press.

There is a great deal of confusion about who the Holy Spirit is and what is His work relative to world, humans, and redemption. I think the book might help some of you.
 
No, "baptism en the Spirit" (the indwelling of the Spirit) is completely different than His empowerment to speak in tongues. Neither one requires the other. There have been some who received the gift of tongues but did not have the indwelling presence of the Lord, and there have been many (everyone in the Church today) who have the indwelling presence of the Lord but do not have the gift of tongues.
We have already seen in scripture that the gentiles were baptized in the Spirit and received the Spirit before water baptism

Acts 10:47–48 (NIV) — 47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

Acts 11:15–17 (NIV) — 15 “As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning. 16 Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?”



You are conflating every gift of the Spirit into the one phrase "received the gift of the Spirit". Just because someone received "the gift of the Spirit" does not mean that they received the indwelling of the Spirit. In some places in Scripture it does mean that, but in other places it just means that they received miraculous empowerment. You have to read the context to see what it was that they received. In Acts 10:45-46, we see clearly what it was that the Gentiles received. "because the gift of the Holy Spirit had also been poured out on the Gentiles. 46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God." First off, the Spirit was poured out "ON" not in or "en" the Gentiles. Secondly, they received only the gift of tongues and praise from the Spirit, not the indwelling presence of the Spirit.
um the text was

They have received the Holy Spirit

not

They have received a gift from the Holy Spirit
 
I am not discounting that it is by one Spirit that we are brought into the one body of Christ. That is absolute truth, and I have already affirmed such.

But the Holy Spirit did empower the donkey to speak. You said yourself above, that the Lord (the Holy Spirit) "opened the mouth of the donkey to speak; thus, the donkey received from the Holy Spirit the gift of speech. Donkeys do not speak naturally, thus it was a supernatural working of the Spirit that caused the donkey to be able to speak. This is clear evidence that the Holy Spirit can, and does, give His gifts wherever He chooses, and to whom (or what) ever He chooses.
Not the same thing as the gift of tongues for the body of Christ. (1 Corinthians 12)
 
Again the gentiles received the Spirit and the baptism en the Spirit both before water baptism

and the baptism en the Spirit places one into the body of Christ
Do you understand the difference between filled with the Holy Spirit and indwelt with the Holy Spirit? Or do you think they are one and the same.
 
You cannot cite a single passage of Scripture that says any such thing.
Is Paul talking to believers in Ephesians ? yes or no

Eph 5:18- Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit,
 
Do you understand the difference between filled with the Holy Spirit and indwelt with the Holy Spirit? Or do you think they are one and the same.
Being filled with the Holy Spirit in the context of Paul’s teaching in Ephesians 5:18 differs from the indwelling of the Holy Spirit at salvation (see John 14:16–17). Those who believe in Jesus Christ and accept His gift of salvation receive the life-giving, eternal “Living Water” of the Holy Spirit (John 7:37–39; see also 1 Corinthians 12:13; 2 Corinthians 1:22; Galatians 3:14; Ephesians 1:13). Everyone who belongs to Jesus Christ has the Spirit of God living in him or her (Romans 8:9). Nevertheless, we can hinder or stifle the work of the Spirit in our lives (1 Thessalonians 5:19) and even “grieve the Holy Spirit” (Ephesians 4:30).

Sin and rebellion against God’s will hinder us from being filled with the Holy Spirit. When we give in to sinful temptations and worldly desires, when we lose control and do what we know is wrong, living as we did before accepting Christ’s salvation, we prevent God’s Spirit from guiding, influencing, and governing our behavior. The Holy Spirit is grieved and quenched because He is not allowed to reveal Himself in our lives as He wants to, with expressions or “fruits” of “love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control” (Galatians 5:22–23). When we sin, we should confess our transgressions to God as soon as possible (1 John 1:9) and renew our commitment to being filled with the Spirit.

Jesus was filled with the guiding influence of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 4:1; Luke 4:18; 10:21). So was John the Baptist (Luke 1:15), his mother Elizabeth (Luke 1:41), and his father Zechariah (Luke 1:67). Old Testament saints like Bezalel (Exodus 31:3; 35:30), Joshua (Deuteronomy 34:9), Samson (Judges 13:25; 15:14), and Micah (Micah 3:8) were filled with the Holy Spirit. The believers at Pentecostwere “filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them” (Acts 2:4). Peter (Acts 4:8), Paul (Acts 13:9), and “the disciples were filled with joy and with the Holy Spirit” (Acts 13:52). In contrast, Ananias allowed himself to be filled with Satan (Acts 5:3).

When we are filled with the Holy Spirit, we “walk by the Spirit” (Galatians 5:16) and are “led by the Spirit” (Galatians 5:18), “live by the Spirit,” and “keep in step with the Spirit” (Galatians 5:25). According to the apostle Paul, being filled with the Holy Spirit makes the difference between life and death. When we belong to Jesus, “the power of the life-giving Spirit” frees us “from the power of sin that leads to death” (Romans 8:2, NLT). “The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace” (Romans 8:6). Instead of living in bondage to sin and fear of death, we live as God’s adopted children (Romans 8:14–15).

Spirit-filled believers trade in “fear and timidity” for “power, love, and self-control” (2 Timothy 1:7). They sing “psalms and hymns and spiritual songs . . . and [make] music to the Lord in [their] hearts. And give thanks for everything to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ” (Ephesians 5:19–21, NLT). A heart overflowing with music, joy, and thankfulness to God usually signals a believer who is filled with the Holy Spirit. Finally, Paul described Spirit-filled believers as those who “submit to one another out of reverence for Christ” (Ephesians 5:21, NLT).

We can be filled with the Holy Spirit daily by yielding our will to God in submission and obedience to His Word. There is no formula to follow other than to allow Him to fill us and control every part of our lives—our thoughts, emotions, bodies, and actions. Only as we submit to Him and are filled with the Holy Spirit can we experience a harmonious relationship with God and one another.got?

hope this helps !!!
 
Is Paul talking to believers in Ephesians ? yes or no

Eph 5:18- Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit,
OK, I yield. I am done here. Further participation is fruitless and will not change anything.
 
OK, I yield. I am done here. Further participation is fruitless and will not change anything.
Why won't you answer that simple question with a yes or no ?

Paul was talking to born again believers in the letter to the Ephesians telling them to be filled with the Holy Spirit. Paul was not talking to unbelievers who needed to be saved.

BTW- we are just having a friendly discussion and this is how iron can sharpen iron if people are willing to examine the truth without bias and be open to correction and affirming the truth found in Scripture.

hope this helps !!!
 
We have already seen in scripture that the gentiles were baptized in the Spirit and received the Spirit before water baptism

Acts 10:47–48 (NIV) — 47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

Acts 11:15–17 (NIV) — 15 “As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning. 16 Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?”
And you assume that "received the Holy Spirit" means that they received the indwelling of the Spirit. But that is not the truth. Many people in Scripture "received the Holy Spirit" but did not receive His indwelling. In most cases in Scripture, the phrase "received the Holy Spirit" means that they received miraculous empowerment, not the indwelling of the Spirit.
um the text was

They have received the Holy Spirit

not

They have received a gift from the Holy Spirit
That is true, but receiving the Holy Spirit does not mean that they received His indwelling presence. The men in Acts 8:14-16 are a good example. Peter and John came and laid hands on them, so that they would receive the Holy Spirit. But they already had the Spirit indwelling them (as He is the seal of those who are in Christ (Eph 1:13)), so what did they not have? The only thing from the Spirit that they had not yet received was the miraculous empowerment of the Spirit. So when Luke says that Peter and John laid hands on them so they would "receive the Holy Spirit", the only thing they were receiving was miraculous empowerment, not the indwelling which they already had.
 
Why won't you answer that simple question with a yes or no ?
Civic, you just answered the question. My answer would have been much like this though probably shorter.

The difficulty here as in so much of the discussions in theology, generally and particularly in forums, is a failure to first come to an agreement on definitions of words. Without such agreement, there really is no end to be reached. While some of that can be fun or enjoyable, it is mostly goes nowhere.
 
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Not the same thing as the gift of tongues for the body of Christ. (1 Corinthians 12)
Both are a miraculous (altering of the natural order) empowerment of the Holy Spirit? Thus, the Holy Spirit can empower whomever (or whatever) He chooses. It is not just within the Church that His gifts can be bestowed.
 
And you assume that "received the Holy Spirit" means that they received the indwelling of the Spirit. But that is not the truth. Many people in Scripture "received the Holy Spirit" but did not receive His indwelling. In most cases in Scripture, the phrase "received the Holy Spirit" means that they received miraculous empowerment, not the indwelling of the Spirit.
No the grammar of the English language indicates it was the Spirit they received, and not a gift from the Spirit as your theology requires

That is true, but receiving the Holy Spirit does not mean that they received His indwelling presence. The men in Acts 8:14-16 are a good example. Peter and John came and laid hands on them, so that they would receive the Holy Spirit. But they already had the Spirit indwelling them (as He is the seal of those who are in Christ (Eph 1:13)), so what did they not have? The only thing from the Spirit that they had not yet received was the miraculous empowerment of the Spirit. So when Luke says that Peter and John laid hands on them so they would "receive the Holy Spirit", the only thing they were receiving was miraculous empowerment, not the indwelling which they already had.

Any proof for that claim as scripture

John 7:38–39 (UASV) — 38 Whoever puts faith in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’(indwelling) ” 39 Now this he said about the spirit, whom those who put faith in him were to receive, (reception of the spirit)for as yet the spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

clearly equated them


BTW you assume the men in Acts 8 had the indwelling of the Spirit

The text does not say so

You are assuming your view thus begging the question
 
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