Acts 22:16 Paul's salvation

[Jim]

Did those in Acts 2:4 not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?

No. Those in Acts 2:38 received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

According to Hebrews 8:13.

That is speaking of the covenants, not anything having to do directly with the works of the Holy Spirit.

No.

Okay.

 

[Fred]

Those in Acts 2:38 received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Which is the same thing as them receiving "the gift of the Holy Spirit" which the Gentiles also received (Acts 10:45) before their water baptism (Acts 10:48).
Thus, the Gentiles received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit before their water baptism.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/eli-insurance-policy.589/page-3#post-25287

That is speaking of the covenants,

Which the Holy Spirit inspired in the words of the Bible.

 

[Jim]

Which is the same thing as them receiving "the gift of the Holy Spirit" which the Gentiles also received (Acts 10:45) before their water baptism (Acts 10:48).
Thus, the Gentiles received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit before their water baptism.

There is not just a single gift of the Holy Spirit. The works of the Holy Spirit involve many different gifts. However in Acts 2:4 the gift of the Holy Spirit is the ability to speak in tongues and to prophesy and to teach as directed by the Holy Spirit. In Acts 2:4, and other such instances described as filled with the Holy Spirit or the Holy Spirit falling upon, the gift is always a supernatural ability to work signs, wonders and miracles.

In Acts 2:38, and other such instances of indwelling and regeneration, the gift is the Holy Spirit, Himself.

Which the Holy Spirit inspired in the words of the Bible.

Yes, but still it is talking about the covenants, not the work of the Holy Spirit in relation to those covenants.

 

[civic]

Which is the same thing as them receiving "the gift of the Holy Spirit" which the Gentiles also received (Acts 10:45) before their water baptism (Acts 10:48).
Thus, the Gentiles received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit before their water baptism.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/eli-insurance-policy.589/page-3#post-25287

Which the Holy Spirit inspired in the words of the Bible.

yes its rather obvious from the text the order of what took place- one must twist scripture into a pretzel to make it say otherwise.

 

[Fred]

There is not just a single gift of the Holy Spirit.

The gift of the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit.

 

[Fred]

Yes, but still it is talking about the covenants, not the work of the Holy Spirit in relation to those covenants.

Sure it does.
Romans 8:9 teaches one cannot have the Spirit if they are not a Christian.

 

[Fred]

yes its rather obvious from the text the order of what took place- one must twist scripture into a pretzel to make it say otherwise.

The Church of Christ (Campbellites) is incredibly confused about the Holy Spirit.

 

[civic]

Sure it does.
Romans 8:9 teaches one cannot have the Spirit if they are not a Christian.

ditto

 

[civic]

The Church of Christ (Campbellites) is incredibly confused about the Holy Spirit.

yes I had a sister years ago married to one I had to educate her on them.

 

[Jim]

Sure it does.
Romans 8:9 teaches one cannot have the Spirit if they are not a Christian.

One cannot have the indwelling Holy Spirit if they have not been born again, i.e., regenerated. There is no such limit on who the Holy Spirit can fall upon to give them the ability to perform signs, wonders and miracles, either in the OT or the NT.

 

[civic]

One cannot have the indwelling Holy Spirit if they have not been saved. There is no such limit on who the Holy Spirit can fall upon to give them the ability to perform signs, wonders and miracles.

miracles, signs and wonders are very rare in the bible and only occur when God is giving new revelation. After the Apostles died so did the miracles, signs and wonders given to individuals. The next time God uses miracles, signs and wonders is with the 2 witnesses in Revelation. Until then the only ones that occur come from the evil one to deceive the world according to Jesus teaching.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Fred]

One cannot have the indwelling Holy Spirit if they have not been born again, i.e., regenerated.

Which took place with Cornelius and the other Gentiles with him before their water baptism.

There is no such limit on who the Holy Spirit can fall upon to give them the ability to perform signs, wonders and miracles, either in the OT or the NT.

In contradiction to Romans 8:9 as well as Jude 19.

 

[Jim]

miracles, signs and wonders are very rare in the bible and only occur when God is giving new revelation. After the Apostles died so did the miracles, signs and wonders given to individuals. The next time God uses miracles, signs and wonders is with the 2 witnesses in Revelation. Until then the only ones that occur come from the evil one to deceive the world according to Jesus teaching.

In the NT, the ability to perform signs, wonders and miracles was actually the authentication that what the one who performed such signs, wonders and miracles said or was about to say was from God. That is what is referred to as the filling with the Holy Spirit or the falling upon by the Holy Spirit.

And that by the way, is why I reject out of hand anyone who tells me that "God has told me...." or "God as said to me....", or something similar to that.

 

[Jim]

Which took place with Cornelius and the other Gentiles with him before their water baptism.

No, what took place with Cornelius and the other Gentiles was that they performed the miraculous speaking in tongues. That had nothing to do with being regenerated or born again and receiving the indwelling Holy Spirit.

In contradiction to Romans 8:9 as well as Jude 19.

No, not a contradiction. Do you think you have the ability to perform signs, wonders and miracles like Cornelius?

 

[Fred]

No, what took place with Cornelius and the other Gentiles was that they performed the miraculous speaking in tongues.

Which proves they were in the church before their water baptism (1 Corinthians 12:28).

No, not a contradiction.

Yes, a contradiction.
The world CANNOT receive the Holy Spirit in the New Covenant era (John 14:17).

Do you think you have the ability to perform signs, wonders and miracles like Cornelius?

No.

 

[TomL]

And that is but one more reason why there is so much confusion and conflicting beliefs in Christendom. There is a difference in the works of the Holy Spirit in His dealings with mankind. Falling upon or being filled with and dwelling in are two separate and different works of the Holy Spirit. Not understanding that or not admitting to that will necessarily result in a lot that is incorrect and too often just plain wrong.

Exo 35:30 Then Moses said to the people of Israel, "See, the LORD has called by name Bezalel the son of Uri, son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah;
Exo 35:31 and he has filled him with the Spirit of God, with skill, with intelligence, with knowledge, and with all craftsmanship,
Exo 35:32 to devise artistic designs, to work in gold and silver and bronze,
Exo 35:33 in cutting stones for setting, and in carving wood, for work in every skilled craft.
Exo 35:34 And he has inspired him to teach, both him and Oholiab the son of Ahisamach of the tribe of Dan.
Exo 35:35 He has filled them with skill to do every sort of work done by an engraver or by a designer or by an embroiderer in blue and purple and scarlet yarns and fine twined linen, or by a weaver--by any sort of workman or skilled designer.

That is a description of being filled with the Holy Spirit that has absolutely nothing to do will indwelling one who has been justified.

You cannot have been indwelt by the Spirit without having received the Spirit

That is the point which refutes the doctrine of one who claims the gentiles had not been indwelt by the Spirit previous to water baptism

 

[Jim]

You cannot have been indwelt by the Spirit without having received the Spirit

That is the point which refutes the doctrine of one who claims the gentiles had not been indwelt by the Spirit previous to water baptism

None of that is true. They received the ability to speak in tongues. There is nothing in the NT that says that they must first be regenerated for them to receive that ability. There in fact is no direct connection between receiving the Spirit to perform miracles and receiving the gift of the indwelling Spirit in regeneration.

 

[Jim]

Yes, a contradiction.
The world CANNOT receive the Holy Spirit in the New Covenant era (John 14:17).

That is speaking of the indwelling Holy Spirit, the helper, the comforter, the paraclete to come when the church is established on the basis of Jesus' sacrifice on the cross and instituted at Pentecost.

 

[Fred]

That is speaking of the indwelling Holy Spirit, the helper, the comforter, the paraclete.

The same Greek word for receive is used in Acts 10:47.

Campbellites are just so confused about the Holy Spirit.
They denigrate Him.

 

[Jim]

The same Greek word for receive is used in Acts 10:47.

Campbellites are just so confused about the Holy Spirit.
They denigrate Him.

You can receive a gift from someone such as a birthday gift, but that someone is not the gift. In the case of the Holy Spirit, one can receive a gift from the Holy Spirit, such as the ability to speak in tongues, and one can received the Holy Spirit as a gift from God in being saved. They are not the same even though both may be referred to as receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit.