Your Views on The Trinity
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Adherent
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He is a Triune God
One God, Three Persons:
Christians believe in one God, not three separate gods. This one God eternally exists as three distinct persons: the Father, the Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit.
Co-equal and Consubstantial:
Each person of the Trinity (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) is fully and equally God. They are not parts of God, but rather, each is God in its entirety.
Distinct Roles:
While co-equal, the three persons of the Trinity have distinct roles and relationships within the Godhead. For example, the Father is often seen as the initiator, the Son as the redeemer, and the Holy Spirit as the applier of salvation.
Trinity and Scripture:
The concept of the Trinity is not explicitly stated as such in the Bible, but Christians believe it is revealed throughout the scriptures, particularly through the Old Testament foreshadowing, the New Testament accounts of Jesus's life and ministry, and the early church's understanding of the Holy Spirit's work.
Significance:
The doctrine of the Trinity is considered a fundamental and central belief in Christianity, impacting how Christians understand God's nature, their relationship with God, and their understanding of salvation.
Runningman
Active Member
Runningman
Active Member
Please put up some actual scripture instead of just your opinions.
Hosanna
Active Member
The New Testament book to the Hebrews begins with stirring words about the Lord Jesus Christ and His importance in God’s unfolding revelation:
Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs. Hebrews 1:1–4
I love the Christology found in the book of Hebrews as it is exceedingly high; in fact, it is one of the chief reasons why the early church was inclined to hold to the deity of Christ.
Here in Hebrews, we see Christ again described as the Son of God and as the agent of creation, who presents a vastly superior revelation than did the prophets of the Old Testament.
But the author also presents the concept that the Son of God is “the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature.”
Jesus is fully God and fully man.
Colossians 2:9: "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily".
Can you see how this is a clear reference to Jesus’ deity? The author of Hebrews is also distinguishing the Son of God from the Father in terms of the idea of personhood. The Father’s person is expressed in the person of the Son. So even though both the Father and Son are divine, the author of Hebrews here sets forth the idea of a personal distinction in the Godhead.
Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs. Hebrews 1:1–4
I love the Christology found in the book of Hebrews as it is exceedingly high; in fact, it is one of the chief reasons why the early church was inclined to hold to the deity of Christ.
Here in Hebrews, we see Christ again described as the Son of God and as the agent of creation, who presents a vastly superior revelation than did the prophets of the Old Testament.
But the author also presents the concept that the Son of God is “the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature.”
Jesus is fully God and fully man.
Colossians 2:9: "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily".
Can you see how this is a clear reference to Jesus’ deity? The author of Hebrews is also distinguishing the Son of God from the Father in terms of the idea of personhood. The Father’s person is expressed in the person of the Son. So even though both the Father and Son are divine, the author of Hebrews here sets forth the idea of a personal distinction in the Godhead.
Peterlag
Active Member
John 1:3 “Everything came to be through it.”
The logos is an “it” not a “him.”
Translators have deliberately chosen to use “him” because they wanted to emphasize that the Word was the male person we know as Jesus. This was a theological choice, not a linguistic one.
"Do not forsake wisdom, and she will protect you; love her, and she will watch over you” (Proverbs 4:6).
Is the Wisdom in Proverbs 4:6 a distinct divine person?
The "Word" is not literally a person for the same reason that "Wisdom" is not literally a person. Both are to be taken metaphorically.
Jesus is the personification of the Word because He speaks the words of God. To listen to Jesus equals listening to the Word of God.
The logos is an “it” not a “him.”
Translators have deliberately chosen to use “him” because they wanted to emphasize that the Word was the male person we know as Jesus. This was a theological choice, not a linguistic one.
"Do not forsake wisdom, and she will protect you; love her, and she will watch over you” (Proverbs 4:6).
Is the Wisdom in Proverbs 4:6 a distinct divine person?
The "Word" is not literally a person for the same reason that "Wisdom" is not literally a person. Both are to be taken metaphorically.
Jesus is the personification of the Word because He speaks the words of God. To listen to Jesus equals listening to the Word of God.
Runningman
Active Member
Yes, but they couldn't sweep 1 John 1:1-3 under the rug. They just hope you don't see it explicitly calling the Word a thing.
1 John 1
1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our own eyes, which we have gazed upon and touched with our own hands—this is the Word of life. 2And this is the life that was revealed; we have seen it and testified to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was revealed to us.
3We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And this fellowship of ours is with the Father and with His Son, Jesus Christ.
How does one get by the facts that the Israelites who served the true living God served a single being God= The Abrahamic God. Thus the God taught to Jesus and all bible writers. Its false reasoning to think more than 1 created=HE,( Gen 1:17,, Prov 8:27-28) the 1/2 of US of Gen 1:16-- The US = YHVH(Jehovah) HE) and his master worker( Prov 8:30= the one who was beside God during the creation. Gods master worker= the being sent who was named Jesus as a mortal. The one whom HE created all other things through( John 1:3-Col 1:16)- through= another did it. Gods master worker gives God( HE) 100% credit for creating( Prov 8.)-
Isaiah 44:24--This is what( YHVH(Jehovah), has said, your Repurchaser and the former of you from the belly, I YHVH(Jehovah) am doing everything, stretching out the heavens by myself, laying out the Earth. Who was with me?--- By myself= the only one with the power and wisdom to create. But he created things through his master worker.
Peterlag
Active Member
What were the things created in Colossians 1:16?
God is Holy literally.Yes, the statement "God is holy" is a fundamental declaration within both Judaism and Christianity. It signifies God's unique and absolute purity, perfection, and separation from sin and evil. Holiness is a core attribute of God, setting Him apart as distinct from all creation and emphasizing His moral perfection.
Jesus is the word because He spoke everything into existence.
In the beginning of John's Gospel, it says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God". This echoes the creation account in Genesis, where God creates by speaking. John uses "Word" to show that Jesus is God's active, creative force, the one through whom the world was made.
The Gospel of John emphasizes that Jesus is not just a prophet or a messenger, but is fully God, the eternal Son who was with God in the beginning. By calling him "the Word," John makes clear that Jesus is the ultimate expression of God's being and will.
Runningman
Active Member
1 Peter 1
15but as he who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, 16since it is written, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.”
In Genesis, God spoke using literal words and is defined as a singular person throughout the entire book. Why do you supposed God was alone when He created despite what John 1 says? Do you consider yourself a Logos Theologian? You know, only John ever talked about the Logos in such a way. It was never repeated and he was not consistent about it. He said the Logos is a thing in 1John 1:1-3. What do you think it means?
Peterlag
Active Member
Jesus Christ is not a lexical definition of logos. The verse does not say "In the beginning was Jesus." The "Word" is not synonymous with Jesus, or even the "Messiah." The word logos in John 1:1 refers to God's creative self-expression... His reason, purpose and plans, especially as they are brought into action. It refers to God's self-expression or communication of Himself. This has come to pass through His creation and especially the heavens. It has come through the spoken word of the prophets and through Scripture. Most notably it has come into being through His Son. The logos is the expression of God and is His communication of Himself just as a "word" is an outward expression of a person's thoughts. This outward expression of God has now occurred through His Son and thus it's perfectly understandable why Jesus is called the "Word." Jesus is an outward expression of God's reason, wisdom, purpose and plan. For the same reason we call revelation "a word from God" and the Bible "the Word of God."
If we understand that the logos is God's expression... His plan, purpose, reason and wisdom. Then it's clear they were with Him "in the beginning." Scripture says God's wisdom was" from the beginning" and it was common in Hebrew writing to personify a concept such as wisdom. The fact that the logos "became" flesh shows it did not exist that way before. There is no pre-existence for Jesus in this verse other than his figurative "existence" as the plan, purpose or wisdom of God for the salvation of man. The same is true with the "word" in writing. It had no literal pre-existence as a "spirit-book" somehow in eternity past, but came into being as God gave the revelation to people and they wrote it down.
A friend of mine put it this way... "The word "logos" (Word) denotes (I) "the expression of thought" as embodying a conception or idea. λόγος "logos" is something said (including the thought). So the word "logos" means an expression of thought. It makes perfect sense if we use this understanding everywhere the word "logos" is used. So in John 1:1 the Word is not Jesus, but rather it became flesh, which is God's expression of thought or plan that became flesh with the coming of Jesus Christ."
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Yeppers.... 99% correct. The Godhead did it all. The one Godhead...... I absolutely agree.
AI says... The term "Godhead" is typically used as a singular noun to refer to the divine essence or nature of God, particularly in Christian theology.
but AI furthers things with However, it can imply a plurality in the context of the Trinity, which includes the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
But the most important question I ask you is why you do not believe scripture from the new testament?
NLT
In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He existed in the beginning with God.
God created everything through him, and nothing was created except through him.
The Word gave life to everything that was created, and his life brought light to everyone.
Now, IF YOU CAALL JOHN A LIAR in the new testament... which you do by the fact that you deny the Word was at creation,
WHO ELSE are you calling a liar in the new testament?
Peterlag
Active Member
It seems difficult for people to understand that John 1:1 is introducing the Gospel of John, and not the Book of Genesis. The topic of John is God (the Father, the only God) at work in the ministry of the man Jesus of Nazareth, not the creation of rocks, trees and stars.
So instead of realizing this is difficult for you to understand. You say I'm calling John a liar. I don't know if I should laugh or cry.
Obadiah
Active Member
Author: The Apostle John
Date: About A.D. 85
Theme: Knowing God by Believing in Jesus Christ
Key Words: Believe, Bear Witness, Life
Author. Early church tradition attributes the Fourth Gospel to John “the beloved disciple” (13:23; 19:26; 20:2; 21:7, 20), who belonged to the “inner circle” of Jesus’ followers (see Matt. 17:1; Mark 13:3). According to Christian writers of the second century, John moved to Ephesus, probably during the Jewish War of A.D. 66–70, where he continued his ministry. For instance, Irenaeus, the bishop of Lyons in the latter part of the second century, stated that “John, the disciple of the Lord, who also leaned upon His breast, did himself publish a Gospel during his residence in Ephesus in Asia” (Against Heresies 3.1.1).
Some scholars suggest that John 19:35 and 21:24 may reflect another author who faithfully collected the apostle’s eyewitness account and testimonials. However, the bulk of the evidence, both internal and external, supports John the apostle as the author.
Date. The same tradition that locates John in Ephesus suggests that he wrote his Gospel in the latter part of the first century. In the absence of substantial evidence to the contrary, most scholars accept this tradition.
Purpose. In a broad sense, John wrote to provide the Christians of the province of Asia (now in Asia Minor) with a fuller understanding of the life and ministry of Jesus Christ. More specifically, he wrote to lead his readers to a settled faith on the basis of the words and works of Jesus, with the result that they “may have life in His name” (20:31).
John and the Synoptic Gospels. While John most likely knew of the other three Gospel accounts, he chose not to follow their chronological sequence of events as much as a topical order. In this case they may have used common oral and/or literary traditions. The broad outline is the same, and some particular events in Jesus’ ministry are common to all four books. Some of the distinctive differences are: 1) Instead of the familiar parables, John has lengthy discourses; 2) In place of the many miracles and healings in the Synoptics, John uses seven carefully picked miracles, which serve as “signs”; 3) The ministry of Jesus revolves around three Passover Feasts, instead of the one cited in the Synoptics; 4) The “I am” sayings are uniquely Johannine.
Content. John divides the ministry of Jesus into two distinct parts: chapters 2–12 give insight into His public ministry, while chapters 3–21 relate His private ministry to His disciples. In 1:1–18, called the “Prologue,” John deals with the theological implications of the first coming of Jesus. He shows Jesus’ preexistent state with God, His deity and essence, as well as His incarnation.
Christ Revealed. The book presents Jesus as the only begotten Son of God who became flesh. For John, Jesus’ humanity meant essentially a twofold mission: 1) As the “Lamb of God” (1:29), He procured the redemption of mankind; 2) Through His life and ministry He revealed the Father. Christ consistently pointed beyond Himself to the Father who had sent Him and whom He sought to glorify. In fact, the very miracles Jesus performed, which John characterized as “signs,” bore testimony to the divine mission of the Son of God. As the Son glorified the Father in ministry and passion, so the Father glorified the Son. But, as John shows, the Son’s glorification came at the Crucifixion (12:32, 33), not only in the postresurrection exaltation. By believing that Jesus is the Christ, the readers of John’s Gospel become participants in the life Jesus brought out of death (20:31).
The Holy Spirit at Work. Unique to John is the designation of the Holy Spirit as “Comforter” or “Helper” (14:16), literally “one called alongside.” He is “another Helper,” namely, one of the same kind as Jesus, thereby extending the ministry of Jesus to the end of this age. It would be a grave error, however, to understand the Spirit’s purpose merely in terms of one needed in predicaments. On the contrary, John demonstrates that the Spirit’s role encompasses every facet of life. In regard to the world outside of Christ, He works as the agent who convicts of sin, righteousness, and judgment (16:8–11). The experience of being “born of the Spirit” is descriptive of New Birth (3:6). Because God in essence is Spirit, those who worship Him must do so spiritually, that is, as directed and motivated by the Holy Spirit (4:24). Further, in anticipation of Pentecost, the Spirit becomes the divine enabler for authoritative ministry (20:21–23).
The Holy Spirit also fulfills a definite function in relation to Christ. While the Father sent the Spirit in the name of Christ, the Spirit never draws attention to Himself, nor does He speak in His own authority. Instead, His mission is to glorify Jesus and to declare Christ’s teaching to the disciples (16:14).
John reveals the function of the Holy Spirit in continuing the work of Jesus, leading believers into an understanding of the meanings, implications, and imperatives of the gospel, and enabling them to do “greater works” than those done by Jesus (14:12). Present-day believers in Christ may thus view Him as their contemporary, not merely as a figure from the distant past.
Personal Application. In seeking to fulfill his purpose as stated in 20:20, 31, John confronts his readers with claims of Jesus that demand a personal response. A positive response of faith in “Jesus . . . the Christ, the Son of God” results in “life in His name.” John records the assertion of Jesus that He came “that they might have life and that they might have it more abundantly” (10:10), and he makes it clear that life is not an independent quality unrelated to God or to Christ. The knowledge of “the only true God and Jesus Christ” (17:3), which implies fellowship as well as intellectual understanding, is the key to the meaning of eternal life.
Spirit Filled Life Study Bible
Date: About A.D. 85
Theme: Knowing God by Believing in Jesus Christ
Key Words: Believe, Bear Witness, Life
Author. Early church tradition attributes the Fourth Gospel to John “the beloved disciple” (13:23; 19:26; 20:2; 21:7, 20), who belonged to the “inner circle” of Jesus’ followers (see Matt. 17:1; Mark 13:3). According to Christian writers of the second century, John moved to Ephesus, probably during the Jewish War of A.D. 66–70, where he continued his ministry. For instance, Irenaeus, the bishop of Lyons in the latter part of the second century, stated that “John, the disciple of the Lord, who also leaned upon His breast, did himself publish a Gospel during his residence in Ephesus in Asia” (Against Heresies 3.1.1).
Some scholars suggest that John 19:35 and 21:24 may reflect another author who faithfully collected the apostle’s eyewitness account and testimonials. However, the bulk of the evidence, both internal and external, supports John the apostle as the author.
Date. The same tradition that locates John in Ephesus suggests that he wrote his Gospel in the latter part of the first century. In the absence of substantial evidence to the contrary, most scholars accept this tradition.
Purpose. In a broad sense, John wrote to provide the Christians of the province of Asia (now in Asia Minor) with a fuller understanding of the life and ministry of Jesus Christ. More specifically, he wrote to lead his readers to a settled faith on the basis of the words and works of Jesus, with the result that they “may have life in His name” (20:31).
John and the Synoptic Gospels. While John most likely knew of the other three Gospel accounts, he chose not to follow their chronological sequence of events as much as a topical order. In this case they may have used common oral and/or literary traditions. The broad outline is the same, and some particular events in Jesus’ ministry are common to all four books. Some of the distinctive differences are: 1) Instead of the familiar parables, John has lengthy discourses; 2) In place of the many miracles and healings in the Synoptics, John uses seven carefully picked miracles, which serve as “signs”; 3) The ministry of Jesus revolves around three Passover Feasts, instead of the one cited in the Synoptics; 4) The “I am” sayings are uniquely Johannine.
Content. John divides the ministry of Jesus into two distinct parts: chapters 2–12 give insight into His public ministry, while chapters 3–21 relate His private ministry to His disciples. In 1:1–18, called the “Prologue,” John deals with the theological implications of the first coming of Jesus. He shows Jesus’ preexistent state with God, His deity and essence, as well as His incarnation.
Christ Revealed. The book presents Jesus as the only begotten Son of God who became flesh. For John, Jesus’ humanity meant essentially a twofold mission: 1) As the “Lamb of God” (1:29), He procured the redemption of mankind; 2) Through His life and ministry He revealed the Father. Christ consistently pointed beyond Himself to the Father who had sent Him and whom He sought to glorify. In fact, the very miracles Jesus performed, which John characterized as “signs,” bore testimony to the divine mission of the Son of God. As the Son glorified the Father in ministry and passion, so the Father glorified the Son. But, as John shows, the Son’s glorification came at the Crucifixion (12:32, 33), not only in the postresurrection exaltation. By believing that Jesus is the Christ, the readers of John’s Gospel become participants in the life Jesus brought out of death (20:31).
The Holy Spirit at Work. Unique to John is the designation of the Holy Spirit as “Comforter” or “Helper” (14:16), literally “one called alongside.” He is “another Helper,” namely, one of the same kind as Jesus, thereby extending the ministry of Jesus to the end of this age. It would be a grave error, however, to understand the Spirit’s purpose merely in terms of one needed in predicaments. On the contrary, John demonstrates that the Spirit’s role encompasses every facet of life. In regard to the world outside of Christ, He works as the agent who convicts of sin, righteousness, and judgment (16:8–11). The experience of being “born of the Spirit” is descriptive of New Birth (3:6). Because God in essence is Spirit, those who worship Him must do so spiritually, that is, as directed and motivated by the Holy Spirit (4:24). Further, in anticipation of Pentecost, the Spirit becomes the divine enabler for authoritative ministry (20:21–23).
The Holy Spirit also fulfills a definite function in relation to Christ. While the Father sent the Spirit in the name of Christ, the Spirit never draws attention to Himself, nor does He speak in His own authority. Instead, His mission is to glorify Jesus and to declare Christ’s teaching to the disciples (16:14).
John reveals the function of the Holy Spirit in continuing the work of Jesus, leading believers into an understanding of the meanings, implications, and imperatives of the gospel, and enabling them to do “greater works” than those done by Jesus (14:12). Present-day believers in Christ may thus view Him as their contemporary, not merely as a figure from the distant past.
Personal Application. In seeking to fulfill his purpose as stated in 20:20, 31, John confronts his readers with claims of Jesus that demand a personal response. A positive response of faith in “Jesus . . . the Christ, the Son of God” results in “life in His name.” John records the assertion of Jesus that He came “that they might have life and that they might have it more abundantly” (10:10), and he makes it clear that life is not an independent quality unrelated to God or to Christ. The knowledge of “the only true God and Jesus Christ” (17:3), which implies fellowship as well as intellectual understanding, is the key to the meaning of eternal life.
Spirit Filled Life Study Bible
For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
Colossians 1:16
The Son created all things according to the will of the Father.
The Son created the heavens and the earth.
The Son is God; YHWH
But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And: “You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
Hebrews 1:8-10
I believe God, YHWH, created the heavens and the earth.
I believe God became flesh; He was made a little lower than the angels.
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16
Runningman
Active Member
Ah, I remember you from the other forum. There has only been one other person I have ran into on the various forums who just kept repeating that version of 1 Timothy 3:16 and ignored everything to the contrary, such as "God was manifested in the flesh" not being original to the manuscript, but a later addition. This is well known in the theological community, I guess you missed the memo.
Why are you more loyal to your beliefs than to the truth? I would rather deny my own priorities and ambitions and follow the truth than just keep repeating the same mistakes.
All things except for Gods master worker=Jesus= created direct-first and last=Only begotten son.
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