civic
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Ditto
Your Views on The Trinity
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civic
Active Member
Jesus is the Lord in Joel, Isaiah and Jeremiah
Joel 2:27-32
27 "Thus you will know that I am in the midst of Israel,
And that I am the Lord your God,
And there is no other;
And My people will never be put to shame.
28 " It will come about after this
That I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind;
And your sons and daughters will prophesy,
Your old men will dream dreams,
Your young men will see visions.
29 "Even on the male and female servants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days.
30 "I will display wonders in the sky and on the earth,
Blood, fire and columns of smoke.
31 "The sun will be turned into darkness
And the moon into blood
Before the great and awesome day of the Lord comes.
32 "And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Will be delivered;
For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
There will be those who escape,
As the Lord has said,
Even among the survivors whom the Lord calls.
Rom 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."
Isa 45:21-24
Is it not I, the Lord?
And there is no other God besides Me,
A righteous God and a Savior;
There is none except Me.
22 " Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth;
For I am God, and there is no other.
23 "I have sworn by Myself,
The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness
And will not turn back,
That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.
24 "They will say of Me, 'Only in the Lord are righteousness and strength.'
Phil 2:9-11
For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Rom 14:10-12
For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God. 11 For it is written,
" AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME,
AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD."
12 So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God.
1 Cor 2:8-9
the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory
Jeremiah 17:10 the Lord says
"I the LORD search the heart, I test the mind. Even to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his doings"
In Revelation 2:23 Jesus says
"I am He who searches the minds and hearts and I will give to each one of you according to your works"
So if Jesus is not God why would he claim to do something in Revelation that Yahweh claimed in Jeremiah?
So is it Yahweh or Jesus who searches hearts and minds?
The only name that can possibly be above all names is the name of YHWH. Even Non trinitarians are forced to agree with this one due to the fact that their own theology acknowledges that YHWH is greater in nature than Jesus. This means that Jesus shares the personal name and authority of YHWH, making Him God as no one can be equal to God except God alone.
hope this helps !!!
The Bible refers to Jesus the Son as LORD; YHWH
The Creator of the heavens and the earth.
But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And:“You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
Hebrews 1:8-10
Jesus is the LORD, YHWH of the Old Testament.
He appeared to Moses from the burning bush as the Angel of the Lord; I AM
He appeared to Abraham as the Almighty.
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Runningman
Active Member
YHWH is explicitly called the Father, only true God:
Isaiah 63:16
Isaiah 64:8
Deuteronomy 32:6
John 17:3
YHWH alone is God:
Deuteronomy 6:4
Isaiah 43:10-11
Isaiah 44:6-8
Jesus is not the Father, or vice versa, nor ever called YHWH in the Bible.
YHWH and Jesus are distinct from one another as much as you and I are distinct from one another:
Isaiah 9:7
Psalm 2:7
Psalm 110:1
Micah 5:4
Means Jesus is not God.
Runningman
Active Member
I knew you couldn't rise to the challenge. Sit back while the adults talk.
Peterlag
Active Member
Hebrews 1:8
“Your throne is God.” Hebrews 1:8 is an almost exact quotation from the Septuagint version of Psalm 45:6, which itself was a very good translation of the Hebrew text of Psalm 45:6, and Hebrews 1:9 is from the Septuagint of Psalm 45:7. The theme of Hebrews 1 centers around the Father’s rule and elevation of the Son over the rest of creation. God spoke through the prophets, and then through His Son, who He appointed heir of all things and who is now seated at God’s right hand as second in command under God.
The God of the Son—anointed him and set him above his companions, such that the Son now sits on God’s right hand. Hebrews exalts the Son, and in so doing exalts the Father. But in contrast to what Trinitarians say, Hebrews 1:8 (and thus Psalm 45:6) does not call Jesus “God” and does not support the Trinity. To see that fully, one must study Psalm 45. Upon examination, Psalm 45 does not support the Trinity, so when it is quoted in Hebrews 1:8 then that quotation does not support the Trinity either. The Jews read Psalm 45 for centuries and never concluded that the Messiah would be “God in the flesh” or somehow be part of a Triune God.
Hebrews is saying your throne oh God is forever. Not Jesus is forever. In Hebrews it's quoted referring to Jesus having the use of that throne.
Hebrews 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Psalms 45:6
Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.
Not much of a challenge.
Again as I stated in my post, Hebrews 1:8-10 addresses the Son as YHWH, the creator of the heavens and earth.
But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And:
“You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands. Hebrews 1:8-10
False.
Behold, the day of the LORD is coming, and your spoil will be divided in your midst.,
Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the LORD my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:1,5
Jesus is coming with the saints on the Day of the LORD.
The Day of the LORD is when Jesus returns, that’s why it’s called the Day of Christ.
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.
But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:2
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-2
Everywhere in the Old Testament we see the phrase, THUS SAYS THE LORD, it is Jesus Christ; the Spirit of the LORD, the Spirit of Christ.
Jesus is YHWH the LORD.
NOT THE FATHER.
HE IS THE SON: YHWH
that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”
Romans 10:9-13
What is the name of the LORD we call on to be saved?
Here’s a hint:
Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” Acts 4:12
Sorry sir but that is not what the scripture I referenced teaches.
But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And: “You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands. Hebrews 1:8-10
Laying the foundation of the earth and the heavens is the work of Christ, the Son.
Hebrews is quoting the prophet Zechariah.
The burden of the word of the LORD against Israel. Thus says the LORD, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him:
Zechariah 12:1
“And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. Zechariah 12:10
This is the Spirit of Christ speaking through the prophet Zechariah.
Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.
1 Peter 1:10-11
The Spirit of Christ in Zechariah testifying of the sufferings He would endure as the Man Jesus Christ, when He would become flesh.
Peterlag
Active Member
Hebrews is saying your throne oh God is forever. Not Jesus is forever. In Hebrews it's quoted referring to Jesus having the use of that throne.
Hebrews 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Psalms 45:6
Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.
You keep repeating yourself about the throne.
Look at verse 10 and address it if you can.
But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And: “You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands. Hebrews 1:8-10
Laying the foundation of the earth and the heavens is the work of Christ, the Son.
Peterlag
Active Member
Indeed. Before Jesus was born he only existed as divinity in heaven. So we distinguish between the person of God before the incarnation and the continuation as Jesus through incarnation. That of course is just a nuance in discussion and people cannot be faulted for referring to Jesus pre-incarnate.
Peterlag
Active Member
I have noticed we graduate from all the other subjects be it accounting, mechanics or dentistry.
We study the books and complete the course that brings us to the required accomplished task which is the ability to know how to do something. We study a map to learn how to get someplace.Thus, our study ends with us able to get from point A to point B, fix a tooth, balance the financial numbers or build the car. How come we spend our entire lives studying the Bible and yet nobody seems to graduate?
What I believe I have been able to graduate from is the following verse...
1 Corinthians 1:9
God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
This cannot be achieved if we do not know the attributes and characteristics of the resurrected Christ Jesus.
We study the books and complete the course that brings us to the required accomplished task which is the ability to know how to do something. We study a map to learn how to get someplace.Thus, our study ends with us able to get from point A to point B, fix a tooth, balance the financial numbers or build the car. How come we spend our entire lives studying the Bible and yet nobody seems to graduate?
What I believe I have been able to graduate from is the following verse...
1 Corinthians 1:9
God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
This cannot be achieved if we do not know the attributes and characteristics of the resurrected Christ Jesus.
The Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of the LORD that spoke through the mouth of the prophets.
Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.
1 Peter 1:10-11
When they said thus says the LORD, it was the Spirit of Christ the Son speaking.
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