Your Views on The Trinity

[Peterlag]

I'm beginning to understand better that the heresy that ails you is Dispensationalism. You are a Dispensationalist. You hide behind that heresy thinking that it answers your questions. Little do you know that Dispensationalism is considered a heresy because it fragmentizes the Bible into numerous dispensational parts with two redemptive programs. It teaches that God deals with people differently at different periods of history, which destroys the unity and coherence of Scripture.

Seems very simple that to whom it is addressed should make sense. What does God mean when He tells us that the visions shown to Isaiah was concerning Judah and Jerusalem? It was not addressed to us or written concerning us, but it was addressed to and concerning Judah and Jerusalem. It would be dishonest for the Church of God to interpret to the Church of God what God said concerns Israel.

 

[Peterlag]

But one flesh according to the bible. So if this be so... and you are correct then 3 under the Godhead are one....

Why can you not see that??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????/

The Bible does not see that there's not two of you when you're married. If it did we would have Scripture like husbands love yourself instead of love your wives.

 

[Fred]

You are not 100 percent or two different items at the same time.

The above makes no sense, which accords well with unitarianism.

This is still true:
Jesus is the High Priest.
Jesus is the sacrifice.

 

[Peterlag]

The above makes no sense, which accords well with unitarianism.

This is still true:
Jesus is the High Priest.
Jesus is the sacrifice.

There are not two of Jesus. One being a High Priest and the other being a Sacrifice. It appears the untilitarian guy is working with logic and reason not to mention physics.

 

[TomL]

Thank you so much for those.

I stand corrected.

But what I was making reference to when I thought only KJV had Godhead as such... (I try to avoid) is that should it become more common to refer to the Godhead when speaking or referencing the Trinity, it might be easier for folks to think in terms of 3 within and not 3 Gods....

Ok, you are welcome

 

[TomL]

Again, you continue to quote the unbelieving Jews who were probably possessed for doctrine.

Sorry but

Isaiah 43:25 (LEB) — 25 I, I am the one who blots out your transgressions for my sake, and I will not remember your sins.

That is Yahweh speaking

and hisd prophets below

Daniel 9:9 (LEB) — 9 Compassion and forgiveness belong to the Lord, our God, for we have rebelled against him,

Micah 7:18–19Who is a God like you, forgiving sin and passing over rebellion for the remnant of his inheritance? He does not retain his anger forever, for he delights in loyal love. He will again have compassion on us; he will trample our iniquities. And you will hurl all their sins in the depths of the sea.

 

[Fred]

There are not two of Jesus.

Great.

One being a High Priest and the other being a Sacrifice.

Thus, your assertion that, "nothing can be 100% of two different things" is false.

It appears the untilitarian guy is working with logic and reason not to mention physics.

Laughable.

 

[Peterlag]

Sorry but

Isaiah 43:25 (LEB) — 25 I, I am the one who blots out your transgressions for my sake, and I will not remember your sins.

That is Yahweh speaking

and hisd prophets below

Daniel 9:9 (LEB) — 9 Compassion and forgiveness belong to the Lord, our God, for we have rebelled against him,

Micah 7:18–19Who is a God like you, forgiving sin and passing over rebellion for the remnant of his inheritance? He does not retain his anger forever, for he delights in loyal love. He will again have compassion on us; he will trample our iniquities. And you will hurl all their sins in the depths of the sea.

Sorry but none of those verses say only God can forgive sins.

 

[Peterlag]

Great.







Thus, your assertion that, "nothing can be 100% of two different things" is false.






Laughable.

Laughable? I don't know if I should laugh or cry for you. Same is true with anything. Take for example a car. Can a car be a 100 percent engine and 100 percent transmission? It has a 100 percent of each you would say. The answer is no because then you would not have any tires.

 

[synergy]

Seems very simple that to whom it is addressed should make sense. What does God mean when He tells us that the visions shown to Isaiah was concerning Judah and Jerusalem? It was not addressed to us or written concerning us, but it was addressed to and concerning Judah and Jerusalem. It would be dishonest for the Church of God to interpret to the Church of God what God said concerns Israel.

The principles of impending judgment for those who foresake the commandments of God is universal to all believers. Isaiah's visions concerning Judah and Jerusalem, as recorded in the Book of Isaiah, primarily focused on warnings of impending judgement and eventual restoration. The same principles can be applied to any and all nations who do not follow God, not just to Judah and to Jerusalem.

There's no need to fracture the universal principles of judgment and salvation into two different dispensations. This fracturing of yours could very well be the reason why you are having such a difficult time trying to align NT Jesus with the OT Preincarnate Jesus Deity, and to come to the Biblical truth that Jesus is God.

 

[Fred]

Laughable? I don't know if I should laugh or cry for you. Same is true with anything. Take for example a car. Can a car be a 100 percent engine and 100 percent transmission?

Irrelevant.

It has a 100 percent of each you would say. The answer is no because then you would not have any tires.

This is still true:
Jesus is the High Priest.
Jesus is the sacrifice.

 

[Peterlag]

Irrelevant.



This is still true:
Jesus is the High Priest.
Jesus is the sacrifice.

If Jesus was a 100 percent the High Priest.
And 100 percent the Sacrifice.
Then there would be no percentage left for his feet.

 

[Peterlag]

The principles of impending judgment for those who foresake the commandments of God is universal to all believers. Isaiah's visions concerning Judah and Jerusalem, as recorded in the Book of Isaiah, primarily focused on warnings of impending judgement and eventual restoration. The same principles can be applied to any and all nations who do not follow God, not just to Judah and to Jerusalem.

There's no need to fracture the universal principles of judgment and salvation into two different dispensations. This fracturing of yours could very well be the reason why you are having such a difficult time trying to align NT Jesus with the OT Preincarnate Jesus Deity, and to come to the Biblical truth that Jesus is God.

The present administration of God is in the time period of the New Testament known as Grace. It deals with the new covenant, and it belongs to the time that is called the administration of the mystery. It's a period in time that was not made known to any one prior to this administration because God kept it a secret since the world began. From this our Grace administration, we learn God’s secret purpose that He had placed in Himself, according to the administration of Grace, which was first revealed to the apostle Paul.

From the eighth chapter of the book of Romans, it's written to those who live in this present Grace administration, “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus” and “that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

From the sixth chapter of the book of Deuteronomy, it was written to those who lived under the Law administration, “it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the Lord our God, as he hath commanded us.” However, from the third chapter of the book of Romans, it's written to those who live in this present Grace administration, “by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight.” What was written to those who lived under the Law administration is the complete opposite of what is written to us who live under the Grace administration.

We will always be in darkness and confusion regarding the truth of God’s Word if we do not understand the different administrations in the Bible. All hope for our redemption is in Jesus Christ, who was born into this world, died, and in the resurrection, he became the head of a new creation. The living resurrected Christ Jesus has become the one great subject that occupies the Word of God that the church belongs to. It's this Christ Jesus that is the key to the divine revelation in the Word of God for this our Grace administration. The contents of the New Testament must be understood in reference to Christ Jesus our Lord because the doctrine and nature of God for this our Grace administration are centered in His Christ.

 

[Peterlag]

 

[Capbook]

To suggest that Jesus was 2 parts starts to deal with the dual nature of Christ which is never stated in the Bible and contradicts the Bible and the laws of nature that God set up. Nothing can be 100% of two different things. Jesus cannot be 100% God and 100% man, and that is not a “mystery” but it's a contradiction and a talk of nonsense. A fatal flaw in the “dual nature” theory is that both natures in Jesus would have had to have known about each other. The Jesus God nature would have known about his human nature, and (according to what the Trinitarians teach) his human nature knew he was God, which explains why Trinitarians say Jesus taught that he was God. The book of Hebrews is wrong when it says Jesus was “made like his brothers in every respect” if Jesus knew he was God (Hebrews 2:17). Jesus was not made like other humans in every way if Jesus was 100% God and 100% human at the same time. In fact, he would have been very different from other humans in many respects.

For example, in his God nature he would not have been tempted by anything (James 1:13), and his human part would not have been tempted either since his human nature had access to that same knowledge and assurance. It is written he was tempted in every way like we all are (Hebrews 4:15). Furthermore, God does not have the problems, uncertainty, and anxieties that humans do, and Jesus would not have had those either if he knew he was God. Also, Luke 2:52 says Jesus grew in wisdom, but his human part would have had access to his God part, which would have given him infinite and inherent wisdom. Hebrews says Jesus “learned obedience” by the things that he suffered, but again, the human part of Jesus would have accessed the God part of him and he would not have needed to learn anything.

Kenotic Trinitarians claim that Jesus put off or limited His God nature, but that theology only developed to try to reconcile some of the verses about what Christ experienced on the earth. The idea that God can limit what He knows or experiences as God is not taught or explained in Scripture, and Kenotic Trinitarianism has been rejected by orthodox Trinitarians for exactly that reason. The very simple way to explain the “difficult verses” that Kenotic Trinitarians are trying to explain about Christ’s human experiences is to realize that Jesus was a fully human being, and not both God and man at the same time. Some assert we have to take the Trinity “by faith” but that is not biblical either.

You've just proven Jesus human nature like His mother human mother Mary have limitations also like His brothers and us in every respect. Jesus though in the form of God emptied Himself and take the form of a servant in the likeness of men.

You didn't address my question, why your honest and logical answer to Jesus as "Son of man" cannot be applied to Jesus as the "Son of God?" as His Father is God.

Let me make my point by a question, can you make an honest answer starting with this phrase, "Jesus' as His Father is God cannot be God." Why? You may cite your reasons.

This speaks about God the Father's Divine Nature. (Acts 17:29)
Also this text speaks about God the Father's divine nature. (Rom 1:20)
For in Jesus all the fullness of Deity(Godhead) dwells in bodily form.(Col 2:9)
As Louw and Nida Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament defined "Godhead" in Greek "theotes" as the nature or state of being God, divine nature, deity, divine being.
(from Greek-English Lexicon Based on Semantic Domain. Copyright © 1988 United Bible Societies, New York. Used by permission.)

This proves Jesus in the nature of God, divine being divine nature, etc. Those are verses from literal word for word Bible translation that aims to maintain the highest degree of accuracy to the original languages, that Bible words can be checked by Bible lexicons.

(NASB) Act 17:29 “Therefore, since we are the descendants of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by human skill and thought.
(NASB) Rom 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, being understood by what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

 

[TomL]

Sorry but none of those verses say only God can forgive sins.

Um it is Yahweh who forgives sin.

And duh if sin is against Yahweh who else can forgive it

Daniel 9:9 (LEB) — 9 Compassion and forgiveness belong to the Lord, our God, for we have rebelled against him,

You need to stop allowing your bias to cause you to disbelieve the word of God.

 

[Capbook]

"The three already in existence in the first book of the Bible chapter 1."
There were two in the beginning, God and His word, or image: Gen 1:2 (Isa 40:18-21 His image), 26-27 (in His image): John 1:1 (His word the exact image of God).

And to the rest, yes, but the word became flesh! The word was made flesh! The living bread from heaven is my flesh! John 6:51.

I don't see your point here.
What I mean the three already exist in the book of Genesis. The Spirit and the Father who talks to one that also has the power to create. (Col 1:16)

 

[TomL]

To suggest that Jesus was 2 parts starts to deal with the dual nature of Christ which is never stated in the Bible and contradicts the Bible and the laws of nature that God set up. Nothing can be 100% of two different things. Jesus cannot be 100% God and 100% man, and that is not a “mystery” but it's a contradiction and a talk of nonsense. A fatal flaw in the “dual nature” theory is that both natures in Jesus would have had to have known about each other. The Jesus God nature would have known about his human nature, and (according to what the Trinitarians teach) his human nature knew he was God, which explains why Trinitarians say Jesus taught that he was God. The book of Hebrews is wrong when it says Jesus was “made like his brothers in every respect” if Jesus knew he was God (Hebrews 2:17). Jesus was not made like other humans in every way if Jesus was 100% God and 100% human at the same time. In fact, he would have been very different from other humans in many respects.

For example, in his God nature he would not have been tempted by anything (James 1:13), and his human part would not have been tempted either since his human nature had access to that same knowledge and assurance. It is written he was tempted in every way like we all are (Hebrews 4:15). Furthermore, God does not have the problems, uncertainty, and anxieties that humans do, and Jesus would not have had those either if he knew he was God. Also, Luke 2:52 says Jesus grew in wisdom, but his human part would have had access to his God part, which would have given him infinite and inherent wisdom. Hebrews says Jesus “learned obedience” by the things that he suffered, but again, the human part of Jesus would have accessed the God part of him and he would not have needed to learn anything.

The bible contradicts you

Hebrews 2:14–18 (NIV) — 14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. 16 For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants. 17 For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. 18 Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.


Hebrews 1:3 (NIV84) — 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

 

[Fred]

If Jesus was a 100 percent the High Priest.
And 100 percent the Sacrifice.
Then there would be no percentage left for his feet.

So which one is He not?

 

[synergy]

The present administration of God is in the time period of the New Testament known as Grace. It deals with the new covenant, and it belongs to the time that is called the administration of the mystery. It's a period in time that was not made known to any one prior to this administration because God kept it a secret since the world began. From this our Grace administration, we learn God’s secret purpose that He had placed in Himself, according to the administration of Grace, which was first revealed to the apostle Paul.

From the eighth chapter of the book of Romans, it's written to those who live in this present Grace administration, “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus” and “that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

From the sixth chapter of the book of Deuteronomy, it was written to those who lived under the Law administration, “it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the Lord our God, as he hath commanded us.” However, from the third chapter of the book of Romans, it's written to those who live in this present Grace administration, “by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight.” What was written to those who lived under the Law administration is the complete opposite of what is written to us who live under the Grace administration.

Long before Paul, it was revealed to the OT Prophets, especially Isaiah. Read Isaiah 53 and many other chapters that foretell the sufferings of the future Messiah and the upcoming Regeneration of his people.

We will always be in darkness and confusion regarding the truth of God’s Word if we do not understand the different administrations in the Bible. All hope for our redemption is in Jesus Christ, who was born into this world, died, and in the resurrection, he became the head of a new creation. The living resurrected Christ Jesus has become the one great subject that occupies the Word of God that the church belongs to. It's this Christ Jesus that is the key to the divine revelation in the Word of God for this our Grace administration. The contents of the New Testament must be understood in reference to Christ Jesus our Lord because the doctrine and nature of God for this our Grace administration are centered in His Christ.

We will all be in confusion if we do not understand that the OT looked forward to Jesus and the NT looks to Jesus. Everything is centered around Jesus. From his first appearing to man in the OT as the Preincarnate Jesus Deity, to his Cross, and now his reign in Heaven, everything is centered around Jesus who is our "Lord and God!" Once you understand the unity that Jesus makes possible throughout all eternity, the more you will be able to see the fact that Jesus is God.