Runningman
Well-known member
The Bible doesn't say the Son of God descended from heaven anywhere. Did you notice that part?
Your Views on The Trinity
- Thread starter Cyrus
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Runningman
Well-known member
Um. I wish you knew me in person you would change your tone real fast. I am a born-again God gearing Christian man with a great personality. Maybe we come off on the wrong foot with our constant disagreements, but as far as me "coming to Christ" I am already there and I am a believer.
I have a question... does this sound like something a Trinitarian would say below? According to John, this is what they were saying in heaven saying. Sounds like they are saying God and the Lamb aren't the same person.
Revelation 7
9After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
I guess you miss the verses that Christ was sent from heaven. Maybe you will notice those verses someday.
Maybe you are born again Christian. I realize that Christians can wrongly perceive doctrine. Usually they are not so stubbornly resistant to the message of scripture though.. Indeed praise and worship go to both the Father and the Son. Glad you found that. You probably heard that God sent his Son of the Godhead to be incarnate among the Jews and to die as the lamb for sacrifice and then to be raised back up to heaven. I know those verses can be hard to find in scripture.
If you understood the deity of Jesus in the Godhead and just uncertain of the Trinity doctrine, I would be see this as at least as a minimal understanding of Christ's essence. But you deny all the verses about his divinity in the Godhead.
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MTMattie
Active member
In context, this is one of the places I do believe Paul was a bit daft.
In context, this is one of the places I do believe Paul was a bit daft. You poor thing... No wonder you are so mixed up. You are taking things as literal when they are clearly mispoken words....In a letter to the church at Colossae, the Apostle Paul gave an intriguing description of Jesus. In it, he explained Christ’s relationship to God the Father and to creation. Some have claimed that Paul’s description of Christ as the firstborn of creation means that Jesus was created—
[ side note: If Jesus was created before all. Knowing that God formed Adam from the ground... and there was no ground yet before what are the chances that He might have used Modeling Clay or silly Putty? Thats a joke son.... lighten up!!!}
not eternal, not God. Such a doctrine, however, conflicts with the rest of the Bible. Christ could not be both Creator and created; John 1 clearly names Him Creator. Let’s take a careful look at the passage where Jesus is called the firstborn.
The statement truly makes no sense.
The first born of all creation? HE, Jesus was not born before creation. Period.
NO. (To what You asked... In Colossians 1:16... is Jesus a human in this context?)
You know why. No further explanations should be needed.
Many teach Jesus is Jehovah
They both are YHWH. Of course "Jehovah" is not a good representation of YHWH into the English. Still, some people are used to that version of YHWH in the English. So he is the only god and thus this applies to Jesus and the Father. But you probably already knew this.
Psalm 110:1-proves 100% Jesus is not Jehovah.= The utterance of Jehovah to my Lord( Jesus) sit at MY right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.))))) Altered translations to mislead by satans will has LORD at Psalm 110:1 instead of Gods name.
ewwww. so there are little satans running around? That is not much of an argument. I think by "satans" you mean people who find your arguments to be anachronistic and illogical such that you are the one who has a truth that you cannot even defend.
Yes all three are Jehovah, but one is not the other though they share a common name
I never said people. I said the translations that are altered( removal of Gods name) was removed by satan's will.
Proof = Hallowed be your ( Father) name= The #1 issue for all concerned as shown by Jesus.
Ps 105:1- Give thanks to Jehovah and call on his name.
105:3-- Boast about his name.
105:7-He is Jehovah our God.
Isaiah 42:8- I am Jehovah that is my name
Ps 99:3 praise his great name
Isa 97:12- Rejoice in Jehovah you righteous ones, give thanks to his holy name
Exod 9:16- in order to have my name declared in all the Earth
Rom 10:13-14--Name must be used
1Kings 8:43- Name must be known by all
God willed his name in his real bible over 7000 places. Men had no right removing it. It was removed by satans will to mislead.
Runningman
Well-known member
How dare Paul speak of Jesus as a visible image of God who bled on the cross rather than an invisible God? Let's get to the heart of the matter. Is Jesus visible or invisible right now?
Larry
Member
Jesus is visible or invisible depending on our walk with Him.
Colossians 1:15-16
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.
Colossians 2:9
For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,
John 1:18
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
John 14:9
Jesus *said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
2 Corinthians 4:4-6
in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants for Jesus’ sake. For God, who said, “Light shall shine out of darkness,” is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.
Hebrews 1:3
And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
Colossians 1:15-16
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.
Colossians 2:9
For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,
John 1:18
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
John 14:9
Jesus *said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
2 Corinthians 4:4-6
in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants for Jesus’ sake. For God, who said, “Light shall shine out of darkness,” is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.
Hebrews 1:3
And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
MTMattie
Active member
Right now? I dont see him do you?
But I do see His image in my avatar.
Can you find it in Greek or Hebrew manuscripts?
The Watchtower is not God
Firstborn prototokos gr sometimes used to denote preeminence or headship or even favoritism. it is sometimes transferred
Exodus 4:22 (KJV 1900) — 22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
Was Israel the first created by God?
Psalm 89:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 Also I will make him my firstborn, Higher than the kings of the earth.
Speaks of pre-eminence
Genesis 41:50–52 (KJV 1900) — 50 And unto Joseph were born two sons before the years of famine came, which Asenath the daughter of Poti-pherah priest of On bare unto him. 51 And Joseph called the name of the firstborn Manasseh: For God, said he, hath made me forget all my toil, and all my father’s house. 52 And the name of the second called he Ephraim: For God hath caused me to be fruitful in the land of my affliction.
Manasseh was the first child born to Joseph
but
Jeremiah 31:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 They shall come with weeping, And with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters In a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: For I am a father to Israel, And Ephraim is my firstborn.
Ephraim the second born was the favorite
MTMattie
Active member
I am referring to only.... 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation..
HE WAS NOT BORN BEFORE CREATION. It is poorly worded, in every translation and no wonder that those looking for a reason to doubt the Trinity that Some have claimed that Paul’s description of Christ as the firstborn of creation means that Jesus was created
Even the stupid Nicene Creed
I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
Is wrong
Psalm 89:27--I = YHVH(Jehovah) the only true God.
LORD = YHVH(Jehovah)= Jesus' God and Father---God does not have a God= 100% fact of life.
MTMattie
Active member
He also did not have a woman who could have birthed Jesus before creation
He created Jesus direct-first and last, then created all other things through his master worker=Jesus.
You ran from the text
And
More than one called Jehovah
Zechariah 2:6–12 (UASV) — 6 Come! Come! Flee from the land of the north, declares Jehovah. For I have scattered you to the four winds of the heavens, declares Jehovah. 7 Come, Zion! Make your escape, you who are dwelling with the daughter of Babylon. 8 For this is what Jehovah of armies, after his glory sent me to the nations who plundered you, for he who touches you touches my eyeball. 9 “Look, I will shake my hand over them, and they shall become plunder for those who served them. Then you will know that Jehovah of armies has sent me. 10 Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion, for look, I come, and I will dwell in your midst, declares Jehovah. 11 And many nations shall join themselves to Jehovah in that day and shall be my people. And I will dwell in your midst, and you shall know that Jehovah of armies has sent me to you. 12 And Jehovah will inherit Judah as his portion in the holy land and will again choose Jerusalem.”
