DavidTree
Active Member
@Peterlag @Runningman , hard day of work and i'm crashing now - Good Night
Your Views on The Trinity
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Peterlag
Active Member
Don't worry. I will stay right here and wait.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Tangible or not? Discernable or not. Get to the meat of this. Stop talking around the issue.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
So when Isaiah saw the Lord High and Lifted up he saw the invisible?
You really haven't given this much thought at all.
Runningman
Active Member
That was a vision, wasn't it?
Runningman
Active Member
Good night
praise_yeshua
Active Member
A vision? No. He SAW the Lord High and Lifted up. He was transported to the very throne of God. I suppose your god is incapable of such things.
Paul spoke of how he was transported to the third heaven and saw things unlawful to speak of....
You need to get to know the Scriptures better. You're only listening to the voice of others. Not the voice of God in the Scriptures.
Also, pay attention to the oldest canonical book in any collection....
Job 19:26 And after my skin has been thus destroyed, yet in my flesh I shall see God,
Job 19:27 whom I shall see for myself, and my eyes shall behold, and not another. My heart faints within me!
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@Runningman
"Example of vision" ~ then you must agree that no man ever had such "open visions" of another man's heart as Jesus had! Which proved that he was more than a man.
I am who?
You men are void of the Spirit of God and you will lose this battle with any person who has the truth on this subject. I will not waste a lot of time with you two.
Never said they were! Where did you get that from my post? That goes to show just how well folks like you truly following alone. That's one reason why you run in two's.
Then your job is to prove it wrong, which you did not, nor can you.
What in the world are you trying to say? The scriptures are clear:
I will agree, that these are indeed Divine revelation from the Holy Ghost to God's children, that Jesus was much more than just a man, he was indeed God manifest in the flesh, just as the word of God teaches us!
"Example of vision" ~ then you must agree that no man ever had such "open visions" of another man's heart as Jesus had! Which proved that he was more than a man.
Is that your final answer?
John 8:58
“Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.”I am who?
Revelation 1:11
“Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.”You men are void of the Spirit of God and you will lose this battle with any person who has the truth on this subject. I will not waste a lot of time with you two.
I had not looked at this passage close enough. Although I recognized the association of Jesus with the Israel bloodline with the phrase "according to the flesh," the parallel association is that beyond the flesh he is God over all. There appears to be lack of any other reason to have "God" here. The sequence of Runningman's translation even shows "God" in closer proximity to "Jesus" but the NASB matches the Greek sequence a bit better: "whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen." However, the punctuation is odd since "God" does not modify "blessed." (Blessed would have to be a verb rather than a noun. )
For Runningman and Peterlag, the better arguments by unitarians requires avoiding the passages that speak of the divinity of Christ.
Peterlag
Active Member
I'm starting to think more and more each day that many of the trinity folks are brain dead. I post the following and they respond with...
Matthew 28:19
I post the following again and they post...
Matthew 28:19
Nobody in Acts ever baptized in the name of the father, son, and holy spirit. Nothing like that is taught in the Epistles which is the doctrine of the new covenant. And all these people listed in the following say the verse you love and keep quoting was never in the Bible...
Baptism was changed from the name of Jesus to the words Father, Son and Holy Ghost in the 2nd Century. -Britannica Encyclopedia, 11th Edition, Volume 3, page 365.
The early church baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus until the second century. - Canney Encyclopedia of Religion, page 53.
Christian baptism was administered using the words "in the name of Jesus." page 377. Baptism was always done in the name of Jesus until the time of Justin Martyr, page 389. - Hastings Encyclopedia of Religion, Volume 2.
Here the authors acknowledged that the baptismal formula was changed by their church. - Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume 2, page 263.
The New Testament knows only the baptism in the name of Jesus. - Schaff & Herzog Religious Encyclopedia, Volume 1, page 435.
It must be acknowledged that the three fold name of Matthew 28:19 does not appear to have been used by the primitive church, but rather in the name of Jesus, Jesus Christ or Lord Jesus. - Hastings Dictionary of Bible, page 88.
And God never said his essence is limited to what a unitarian can imagine. Was that a big error on God's part?
Peterlag
Active Member
There's no Trinity...
The verses that are used to try to teach it are all taken out of context, or not understood how the words were used in the culture they were written in, or from a bad translation. It's an evil Catholic concept that was sold to the world mostly by the power of the sword.The folks back then weren't allowed to have Bibles to read for themselves. The rejection of the Trinity often brought severe punishment including the loss of your job, intimidation, harassment, confiscation of property, jail or imprisonment, torture, and even burning at the stake.
But now I have noticed intelligent and informed input on the subject of debating the Trinity comes from the unitarian camp. It seems low intelligence, ignorance, and an incapacity for critical thought are prerequisites for membership in trinitarian circles.
Here's an example...
Concerning 1 John 5:7-8 where it has the words "In heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth" are words that are not found in any Greek Manuscript before the 15th or 16th century and in no ancient Version. - E. W. Bullinger., A Critical Lexicon and Concordance to the English and Greek New Testament: (London: Samuel Bagster & Sons, 1975), p. 11 of Appendix A.
Trinitarians...
You are changing the Scriptures. Or 2 Peter 2:21 says the Bible is not to be privately interpreted. Or why are you denying the words of the Apostles?
Runningman
Active Member
You forgot to put your Trinity Goggles on. That should fix it. It's always been kinda funny to me how they all seem to have a secret decoder ring that no one else has.
That's a large group on both ends which makes your point meaningless.
Runningman
Active Member
You can put the entire world on both ends. It's okay for me because I know I am on the same side as God and Jesus. You should join us.
Thus, your original point is still meaningless.
Peterlag
Active Member
They are forcing me to learn stuff I really have no interest in. Like this Hebrews 1:10 that I'm seeing from a few of them just in the last few days. I can tell by the context that the word "Lord" is referring to God and not Jesus. I spent a few minutes digging into it and I learned it's a quote from the Old Testament. And that's why it says Thou, Lord. I swear these trinity people are brain dead.
10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
It is sad what unitarians do to scripture when taking the passages out of context. Heb 1:10 is said of Christ, as we see in verse 8.
If we skip most of verses 8 and 9 to simplify the point, we have
8 But of the Son he says, "You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands;"
There is no moment when the description has changed from being about the Son.
The unitarian will no doubt forget what has just been shared here and thus will still claim that Heb 1:10 is not describing the Son even in future posts. It would be quite odd for a unitarian conception of a god in making the claim that this god said as a unitarian god "You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands;"
Maybe it would help if I took a class in unitarian logic, but I'm afraid it might be too unusual from normal logic.
John Schoenheit is not a Trinitarian.
Hebrews 1, REV Bible and Commentary
Hebrews 1 REV and Commentary - God, having spoken from old time to our ancestors through the prophets in many parts and i - Bible verse
www.revisedenglishversion.com
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