praise_yeshua
Well-known member
I should let you undermine the doctrine. The trinitarians here are.
I'm not going to. Test me from the Scriptures.
I should let you undermine the doctrine. The trinitarians here are.
So your answer is the Son is less than His Father?
There is a reason I asked you about rank. You don't know the argument. You're following professors that didn't teach you about it...
Listen, this has been fun but I'm not going to keep doing this. I really have better things to do than to argue over a liar from the 3rd century. Just put me in the Sola Scriptura category and deal with me from the Scriptures. I'll listen.
I'm not going to.
Test me from the Scriptures.
Denigrate? I'm just witnessing the emptiness of the argument. I've been debating this a very long time. I gave up arguing over what some man said hundreds of years after that fact....a very long time ago. After all, they are just men. That is just witnessing facts. I haven't denigrated anyone.You greatly underestimate my trinitarian professors. The trinitarians here are allowing you to denigrate them. It’s left to a Jewish monotheist to defend them. Cowardly is the word.
Burn it down right before their closed eyes, clogged ears and closed mouths. They deserve it.
You've been arguing the authority of Origen. Anyone can recognize the emptiness of such an argument.You already have and don’t know it.
You’ve already failed the test.
What? Origen lied extensively on his work in textual criticism. Why should believe anything he said?Trinitarian on trinitarian violence. And the trinitarian crowd shrugs its shoulders and twiddles its thumbs. I’ve witnessed it for thirty plus years.
I asked if Jesus is ranked less than the Father? Care to answer?Trinitarian on trinitarian violence. And the trinitarian crowd shrugs its shoulders and twiddles its thumbs. I’ve witnessed it for thirty plus years.
Denigrate? I'm just witnessing the emptiness of the argument. I've been debating this a very long time. I gave up arguing over what some man said hundreds of years after that fact....a very long time ago. After all, they are just men. That is just witnessing facts. I haven't denigrated anyone.
You've been arguing the authority of Origen.
Anyone can recognize the emptiness of such an argument.
What? Origen lied extensively on his work in textual criticism. Why should believe anything he said?
Like I said, you're attempting to paint him as an authority on the Trinity. He isn't.
Speak of doctrine on doctrine "violence". Haven't you been disagreeing with Unitarians in this thread? Shouldn't qualify as the same?
I asked if Jesus is ranked less than the Father? Care to answer?
Actually it was the Church that did the "throwing away" of many of Origen's writings. The Second Council of Constantinople in 553 anathematized Origen for various reasons.Demand whatever you want. You‘ve thrown away Origen. That’s not a wise thing to do.
Origen lied. He more than lied, he was dishonest. It wasn't a simple mistake. I don't call people who make simple mistakes liars. I haven't called you a liar even though I disagree with you. You're making more seamless comparisons.Don’t believe a word of what he said then.
I agree and disagree with unitarians on some things. I fully agree with unitarians who say that the Father alone is the one true God. I don’t call any of them liars.
No meaningful difference. He has zero influence upon me and many others. You and your professors are overstating his influence. That is what happens when you start embellishing men.No. I’ve been arguing that Origen has a major role in the development of the post-biblical doctrine of the Trinity.
You concocted it out of your imagination.
Why not say it. Say Christ is less than God. You need say it and then define how rank establishes it. The argument centers around rank. I've been trying to get you to deal with what is important. Who cares what Origen said. We don't need him to establish anything..You’re asking about something which you already know.
They either established their arguments upon the Scriptures and reason or they mean very little.Actually it was the Church that did the "throwing away" of many of Origen's writings. The Second Council of Constantinople in 553 anathematized Origen for various reasons.
It's funny that you didn't select the real champions of Christology like Athanasius and Basil the Great. Athanasius destroyed Arianism and Basil the Great championed the Hypostatic understanding of Christology. No, you had to select someone who was anathemized by the Church.
Who needs Origen. We have“Origen’s Helpful Suggestion. It was the many-sided genius of Origen that helped to solve the problem [of subordinationism … which to this point in time in the 3rd century had been the safeguard of monotheism.] Origen, like Tertullian, was strongly opposed to Monarchianism with it’s emphasis on monotheism to the exclusion of hypostasianism and tri-personality. Abandoning the view of the Apologists and Tertullian who conceived the Logos to be a person only from the time of creation, Origen declared the Logos to have been a person from all eternity. ‘His generation is as eternal and everlasting as the brilliance produced by the sun.’ ‘The Father did not beget the Son and set Him free after He was begotten, but He is always begetting Him.’ This suggestion of an eternal generation was a needed contribution. It was unconsciously a step in the direction of the co-eternity and co-equality of the Son with the Father, as expressed in the Church’s doctrine of the Trinity.”
(J.L. Neve, A History of Christian Thought, Vol. 1, p. 108)
Ladies and gentlemen, your attention please. I give you the contribution of Origen, whom a trinitarian voice on an Internet discussion forum has surnamed “The Liar”.
Actually it was the Church that did the "throwing away" of many of Origen's writings. The Second Council of Constantinople in 553 anathematized Origen for various reasons.
It's funny that you didn't select the real champions of Christology like Athanasius and Basil the Great. Athanasius destroyed Arianism and Basil the Great championed the Hypostatic understanding of Christology. No, you had to select someone who was anathemized by the Church.