"Works Salvation"

[JLB]

Romans 6 says I was baptized (literally placed into) christ. And his death.

No scripture?

 

[JLB]

Once good works are introduced into the salvation process, salvation is no longer by faith alone;

Are you familiar with the biblical term -

The obedience of faith.

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26

The obedience of faith is a biblical term.

Faith alone is a man made term.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

No scripture?

Roman’s 6 is not scripture?

 

[Cyrus]

James 2:24 states that "It's by faith alone" And this is the correct interpretation.

James is not arguing that faith doesn't matter. And he is not denying that through faith alone we are saved by God's grace. He is simply noting that the "faith which saves" is something more than an opinion. Instead, James is arguing for exactly what Paul wrote in Ephesians 2:10: That the God who saved us by His grace through faith—and not in any sense through works—planned all along for His believing children to do good works, "that we should walk in them." Once we are saved. That's what true believers do.

 

[Keith]

Paul presents the truth of justification by faith alone as the crucial and initial element in the sinner’s redemptive relationship with God through Jesus Christ in Titus 3:4–8.

He also warns his converts of the danger of accepting another gospel, a gospel of justification that includes works as well as grace, which is not the gospel.

The essence of Paul’s teaching on the subject is presented in Romans 3:21–26.

 

[Seabass]

Water is wet = it is a 'given' that Noah was to build the Ark for God told him to do so!!!


Maybe you have me confused with someone else = i never said obedience is a work of merit


It is not complicated my Brother in Christ = just as God Says

By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.

Notice how the Holy Spirit begins with faith, then moves toward divine prophecy, then action/work.
When faith is directed by prophecy into action/work it yields righteousness which is by faith

Can you SEE the Alpha and the Omega = the Beginning and the End in Hebrews 11:7

1)
God COMMANDED Noah to build the ark, hence Noah had no choice in the matter if he wanted to be saved from the flood. He MUST build the ark to receive God's gift of salvation from the flood. Not building the ark would have been rejecting God's gracioue gift. We see from the verses you posted that Noah's faith included obedience in building the ark as God commanded. Had Noah not obeyed God in building the ark but just had 'faith only' God would save him, then he would not been saved from the flood but drowned and died with all the unrighteous people.

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2)
those who have allowed themselves to think faith only saves are the one who refuse to see the difference between obedience and works of merit. As long as people refuse to see this distinction they will never have a correct understanding of NT salvation. The Catholics went to one extreme with their Treasury of merit and selling of indulgences. Yet Reformers went in the opposite extreme with faith onlyism. The NT shows obedience is the separating line between the saved and lost (Heb 5:9; 2 Thess 1:8) and obedience is not a work of merit and is the opposite of faith only.

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3)
those then that take Rom 11:6 OUT OF CONTEXT and claim Paul is eliminating all works, including obedience to God, are creating massive contradictions within the book of Romans itself:

a) Paul begins and ends his great epistle of Romans with obedience of faith (Rom 1:5; Rom 16:28) but then contradicts that in Rom 11:6 by saying one does not have to have an OBEDIENT faith?

b) Paul says each one will be either saved or lost (Rom 6:16)..lost by serving "sin unto death" or saved by "serving obedience UNTO righteousness" but then contradicts this in Rom 11:6 that one does no works at all unto righteousness, no obedience unto righteousbess?

c) Paul said those Romans had obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine being then made free from sin (justified but then contradicts that in Rom 11:6 that one does nothing, no works at all to be made free from sin?

d) Paul required repentance (Rom 2:4-5) confession (Rom 10:10) and baptism (Rom 6:3-5) to be saved but contradicts that in Rom 11:6 by saying do nothing to be saved, no obedience in repenting confessing or being baptized?

e) Paul lamented that his brethren in the flesh, the Jews, were lost. In Rom 10:3 we see they were lost because they were going about to establish their OWN righteousness rather than submit (obey) the righteousness of GOD. But Paul contradicts this in Rom 11:6 by saying the Jews do not have to obey God's righteousness to be saved?

Furthermore in Rom 10:3 Paul mentions two DIFFERENT kinds of works;
1) establishing their OWN righteousness
2) submitting to GOD's righteousness.

Those Jews were lost because they were doing work #1 in doing their OWN traditions rather then doing work #2 submitting to GOD's righteousness. Here we have two different kinds of works, one kind of work that did not save the Jew and a different kind of work that could save the Jew. Hence all works are not alike, the Bible nowhere ever eliminates obedience to God from being saved.

Those Jews in Rom 10 were lost for they would not submit to God's righteousness, they would not believe, not confess (Rom 10:9-10) they did not 'obey the gospel' (Rom 10:16) but Paul contradicts this in Rom 11:6 that the Jew could be saved without submitting to God's righteousness, without believing with the heart, without confessing with the moth, without obeying the gospel. (This would also contradict Paul in 2 Thess 1:8.)

f) it becomes evident that in Rom 11:6 Paul is NOT contrasting grace from obedience but contrasting grace from works of merit. If one could live a perfectly sinless life then his reward would not be of grace but would be owed to him (Rom 4:4). If Abraham or David could have kept the OT law perfectly sinless then they would have merited their reward, it would not be of grace. But since both sinned their reward was by grace through an OBEDIENT faith. Hence grace is not by works of merit but through obedience to God's will.

g) IN THE CONTEXT of Rom 11:6 we see those that were of God in OT times were those who OBEYED God by not bowing to Baal and in the present (gospel dispensation) time those that obeyed the gospel (2 Thess 1:8) is by election of grace.