"Works Salvation"

[Eternally-Grateful]

Duet

And now, Israel, what does the Lord your God require of you, but to fear the Lord your God, to walk in all His ways and to love Him, to serve the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, and to keep the commandments of the Lord and His statutes which I command you today for your good? Indeed heaven and the highest heavens belong to the Lord your God, also the earth with all that is in it. The Lord delighted only in your fathers, to love them; and He chose their descendants after them, you above all peoples, as it is this day. Therefore circumcise the foreskin of your heart, and be stiff-necked no longer.

Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.
1 Peter 1:10-11

1“If you will return, O Israel,
return to Me,” declares the LORD.
“If you will remove your detestable idols from My sight
and no longer waver,
2and if you can swear, ‘As surely as the LORD lives,’
in truth, in justice, and in righteousness,
then the nations will be blessed by Him,
and in Him they will glory.”
3For this is what the LORD says to the men of Judah and Jerusalem:
“Break up your unplowed ground,
and do not sow among the thorns.
4Circumcise yourselves to the LORD,
and remove the foreskins of your hearts,
O men of Judah and people of Jerusalem.

When did they recieve washing of sin, if Jesus did not yet pay for it?

Why did they go under. And Jesus did not take them up until after he died?

Try to look at it from a spiritual sense..

God looked over their sin,, Because of what his son would do.. Not because they earned salvation

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

by the Spirit = the same Spirit that hovered over the waters in Genesis 1:2 and that God gave to Moses and others to be born-again

JESUS Himself said the OT saints who believed were born-again

So again, what must be done?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Exactly what occurred in Acts chapter 2 and more

Yes,

But 2 things happened in acts 2.

1. They were baptized with the spirit
2. They were anointed by the spirit

 

[DavidTree]

When did they recieve washing of sin, if Jesus did not yet pay for it?

Why did they go under. And Jesus did not take them up until after he died?

Try to look at it from a spiritual sense..

God looked over their sin,, Because of what his son would do.. Not because they earned salvation

the OT saints were saved/born-again, but were kept in "paradise" until Christ

the OT saints were under the Tutor of the law of Moses until Christ came and Fulfilled the righteous requirements of the law

the righteous requirement of the law was that "blood must atone for sin"

BIG PROBLEM with the OT law = "the blood of sheeps/goats/oxens could never atone for man's sins

the OT sacrifices all point to CHRIST as "the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world"

thus the OT saints had to wait in paradise until Christ died on the Cross whereby His Blood Atonement covered EVERY Saint all the way back to Adam = only of those who believed the Word that was God who Spoke from the beginning

 

[Cyrus]

2,484 posts about works salvation?

Well here is my take.

Ephesians 2:9 affirms that salvation is “not by works so that no one should boast.” It is difficult to imagine the text being much clearer. Works are excluded as the basis of salvation so that people cannot boast that their deeds contributed to their inclusion in the people of God.

Salvation by faith is at stake here. Once good works are introduced into the salvation process, salvation is no longer by faith alone; it is by faith and works.

 

[DavidTree]

2,484 posts about works salvation?

Well here is my take.

Ephesians 2:9 affirms that salvation is “not by works so that no one should boast.” It is difficult to imagine the text being much clearer. Works are excluded as the basis of salvation so that people cannot boast that their deeds contributed to their inclusion in the people of God.

Salvation by faith is at stake here. Once good works are introduced into the salvation process, salvation is no longer by faith alone; it is by faith and works.

2,485 and now 2,486

 

[Tranquil]

A few more 1,000 and we may get it right.

 

[DavidTree]

A few more 1,000 and we may get it right.

Let's be Perfect = when we hit the 7th thousand mark

 

[Tranquil]

Let's be Perfect = when we hit the 7th thousand mark

Thats a lot of work. But it is in the bible.

Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Read full chapter
Matthew 5:48

 

[Studyman]

2,484 posts about works salvation?

Well here is my take.

Ephesians 2:9 affirms that salvation is “not by works so that no one should boast.”

Here is what it actually says.

Eph. 2: 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

To say there were "NO WORKS" that were done to secure God's Salvation is foolish. Clearly Paul is speaking about the "Works of man" here VS. the incredible selfless, loving and perfect Works of God that defines Sin and Righteousness. Paul continues this theme.


10 For we (who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2 Wherein in "time past" ye walked "according to the course of this world", according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience)
are "his" workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto "good works", "which God" (NOT MAN) "hath before ordained" that we (Men who have Yielded ourselves servants to obey God) should "walk in" them.

Jesus commanded the same thing.

Matt. 4: 4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Not by the religious doctrines, traditions and philosophies of this world's religious system, but by God's Actual Word.

It is difficult to imagine the text being much clearer. Works are excluded as the basis of salvation so that people cannot boast that their deeds contributed to their inclusion in the people of God.

That isn't what Paul is saying at all. That is what this world's religious sects, "Who call Jesus Lord, Lord" say. But Paul isn't saying that "Works" are excluded. He is saying that "Mans Works" are excluded. We are instructed by God walk in His Judgments, His Commandments, that HE before ordained that we should walk in them. This is the Gospel Paul taught.

Rom. 12: 1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye "present your bodies" a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2 And be not conformed to this world (Including it's religions) but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that "ye may prove" what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

And then what? To Yield ourselves" servants to "Walk in them", Yes?

Salvation by faith is at stake here. Once good works are introduced into the salvation process, salvation is no longer by faith alone; it is by faith and works.

Faith is believing in something or someone we can't see. If the invisible God says, "Don't Steal", then a man of Faith is one who repents from stealing, and "Goes and Steals no more". A man who continues to steal, after God tells him not to, is not a "man of Faith". A "man of Faith" isn't someone who just hears the Word of God, but as Jesus Himself teaches, one who ":Lives By" the Word of God. Not just a word here or a word there, but as Jesus, the Law and Prophets, and Paul all teach, "Every Word" of God.

Once the word of man is introduced into the Salvation process, it become infected, corrupted and those who adopt this salvation will be like those "Christians" in Matt. 7:22, who called Jesus Lord, Lord, but were not "Doers" of His Sayings.

This is important because according to the Bible, men are judged by "their works". If the Works of Christ, of His Life, (Blood) dwell within us, then there is no condemnation for us, as Paul teaches, Who "WALK" in the Spirit, not the Flesh".

These things are not taught by the "course of this world", but as you can see, the Holy scriptures do teach these things.

 

[DavidTree]

Here is what it actually says.

Eph. 2: 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

To say there were "NO WORKS" that were done to secure God's Salvation is foolish. Clearly Paul is speaking about the "Works of man" here VS. the incredible selfless, loving and perfect Works of God that defines Sin and Righteousness. Paul continues this theme.


10 For we (who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2 Wherein in "time past" ye walked "according to the course of this world", according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience)
are "his" workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto "good works", "which God" (NOT MAN) "hath before ordained" that we (Men who have Yielded ourselves servants to obey God) should "walk in" them.

Jesus commanded the same thing.

Matt. 4: 4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Not be the religious doctrines, traditions and philosophies of this world's religious system.



That isn't what Paul is saying at all. That is what this world's religious sects, "Who call Jesus Lord, Lord" say. But Paul isn't saying that "Works" are excluded. He is saying that "Mans Works" are excluded. We are instructed by God walk in His Judgments, His Commandments, that HE before ordained that we should walk in them. This is the Gospel Paul taught.

Rom. 12: 1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye "present your bodies" a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2 And be not conformed to this world (Including it's religions) but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that "ye may prove" what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

And then what? To Yield ourselves" servants to "Walk in them", Yes?



Faith is believing in something or someone we can't see. If the invisible God says, "Don't Steal", then a man of Faith is one who repents from stealing, and "Goes and Steals no more". A man who continues to steal, after God tells him not to, is not a "man of Faith". A "man of Faith" isn't someone who just hears the Word of God, but as Jesus Himself teaches, one who ":Lives By" the Word of God. Not just a word here or a word there, but as Jesus, the Law and Prophets, and Paul all teach, "Every Word" of God.

Once the word of man is introduced into the Salvation process, it become infected, corrupted and those who adopt this salvation will be like those "Christians" in Matt. 7:22, who called Jesus Lord, Lord, but were not "Doers" of His Sayings.

This is important because according to the Bible, men are judged by "their works". If the Works of Christ, of His Life, (Blood) dwell within us, then there is no condemnation for us, as Paul teaches, Who "WALK" in the Spirit, not the Flesh".

These things are not taught by the "course of this world", but as you can see, the Holy scriptures do teach these things.

Salvation is secured for us by the FATHER thru CHRIST

works do not secure salvation
acceptable works come from God as He has prepared them for us to walk in = Eph 2:10

God's works thru us are the outward expression of Salvation inside us

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

the OT saints were saved/born-again, but were kept in "paradise" until Christ

the OT saints were under the Tutor of the law of Moses until Christ came and Fulfilled the righteous requirements of the law

the righteous requirement of the law was that "blood must atone for sin"

BIG PROBLEM with the OT law = "the blood of sheeps/goats/oxens could never atone for man's sins

the OT sacrifices all point to CHRIST as "the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world"

thus the OT saints had to wait in paradise until Christ died on the Cross whereby His Blood Atonement covered EVERY Saint all the way back to Adam = only of those who believed the Word that was God who Spoke from the beginning

Which is why we are baptized in Christ.

 

[DavidTree]

So again, what must be done?

my Brother in Christ EG,

Watch how we know from the words of our Savior

That same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Jesus and questioned Him. “Teacher,” they said, “Moses declared that if a man dies without having children, his brother is to marry the widow and raise up offspring for him.b Now there were seven brothers among us. The first one married and died without having children. So he left his wife to his brother. The same thing happened to the second and third brothers, down to the seventh. And last of all, the woman died. In the resurrection, then, whose wife will she be of the seven? For all of them were married to her.”

Jesus answered, “You are mistaken because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God.
In the resurrection, people will neither marry nor be given in marriage. Instead, they will be like the angelsc in heaven.
But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what God said to you: ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’?
He is not the God of the dead, but of the living.”

Only "living" Born-Again saints are part of the Resurrection unto Eternal Life at His 2nd Coming

 

[Studyman]

Salvation is secured for us by the FATHER thru CHRIST

works do not secure salvation
acceptable works come from God as He has prepared them for us to walk in = Eph 2:10

God's works thru us are the outward expression of Salvation inside us

Yes, God directs men who join themselves to Him, how to walk. They either believe Him, and "Yield themselves" to Him becoming "servants of HIS Righteousness", as it is written. Or they don't believe Him, and walk in their own judgments, statutes and Commandments promoted by this world's religious system.

It's simple, as Paul also teaches.

2 Cor. 11: But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

 

[DavidTree]

Yes, God directs men who join themselves to Him, how to walk. They either believe Him, and "Yield themselves" to Him becoming "servants of HIS Righteousness", as it is written. Or they don't believe Him, and walk in their own judgments, statutes and Commandments promoted by this world's religious system.

It's simple, as Paul also teaches.

2 Cor. 11: But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

so simple in fact that the LORD Jesus Christ set this as The Example for us = Matthew 18:1-3

1At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who then is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”

2Jesus invited a little child to stand among them. 3“Truly I tell you,” He said, “unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5And whoever welcomes a little child like this in My name welcomes Me.

 

[charismaticlady]

Being Born-Again requires the Spirit of God but it does not require the Baptism of the Holy Spirit

the OT Saints who BELIEVED were Born-Again but they did not receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit

OT saints were under the ministry of death - the Law. All they had to do was love God and He saved them. Like King David who murdered, but sorely repented. God didn't demand his life, but the life of his son.

To be born again IS to have received the infilling of the Holy Spirit, the seed of the Father (1 John 3:9). Jesus was the first of many brethren after him. Romans 8:29-30.

 

[charismaticlady]

When did they recieve washing of sin, if Jesus did not yet pay for it?

Why did they go under. And Jesus did not take them up until after he died?

Try to look at it from a spiritual sense..

God looked over their sin,, Because of what his son would do.. Not because they earned salvation

Yes, Romans 3 says God overlooked their sin, not cleansed them.

 

[DavidTree]

OT saints were under the ministry of death - the Law. All they had to do was love God and He saved them. Like King David who murdered, but sorely repented. God didn't demand his life, but the life of his son.

"The law was our Tutor to bring us to Christ"

Psalm 119
1Blessed are the undefiled in the way,
Who walk in the law of the Lord!
2Blessed are those who keep His testimonies,
Who seek Him with the whole heart!
3They also do no iniquity;
They walk in His ways.
4You have commanded us
To keep Your precepts diligently.
5Oh, that my ways were directed
To keep Your statutes!
6Then I would not be ashamed,
When I look into all Your commandments.
7I will praise You with uprightness of heart,
When I learn Your righteous judgments.
8I will keep Your statutes;
Oh, do not forsake me utterly!

To be born again IS to have received the infilling of the Holy Spirit, the seed of the Father (1 John 3:9). Jesus was the first of many brethren after him. Romans 8:29-30.

OT saints who believed the Word of God were born-again but could not receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

JESUS clearly stated this:

Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven. But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.”
And when the multitudes heard this, they were astonished at His teaching.

These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland. And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return. But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country.
Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them/OT saints and now Today NT saints.