"Works Salvation"

[charismaticlady]

I explained what this means. It means physical death.

salvation is not context here

Spiritual death is more important to God, so I disagree. Ultimately, yes, it is physical death for eternity.

I do too. When we are serving God. Loving our neighbors and seeking after the things of the spirit.

but do we do this 24/7. if we say we do. I am worried we may not see the truth in ourselves. Which is pretty much what John said

There is not always a need for 24/7. But to be available I think is all God wants.

Its not turning from sin at all in the context of salvation. You can't turn from sin.. before your saved you can not even understand what all possible sins are to even contemplate turning. Plus, your in your flesh. hence yuo have to fill that void left from the separation caused by the fall.

Because God is light, we cannot be in the flesh if we are in the Spirit. I do not believe we go in and out of the Spirit.

Again, your focused on sin. Lets focus on the fall.

you were dead in tresspasses and sins.

God made you alive.

How did he do this?

What created the fall? SIN There was no going back for us. This is why only God could overcome Satan's hold on the world through taking away our SIN 1 John 3:4-5

as for romans 7. paul spoke in present tense. he also spoke of the battle between the flesh and spirit. You must realise. there was no spirit before Paul was saved. So paul could not have a battle of the 2..

Nor could paul serve God in the spirit before he was saved.

so it could not be before as some insist. they are in error

But the CONTEXT is different. Verses 7:5-6 shows us no longer in the flesh. But 14-25 shows us in the flesh. Which came first? Us as victors over sin? Or us trapped in sin? And then 8:9 shows us not in the flesh.

What happened to save us? - Jesus.

 

[charismaticlady]

why are we warned not the quench the spirit. by which we have been sealed unto the day of redemption. If it was not possible

Ephesians 4:30
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

what do you think we do that grieves the HS.. we quench him, or we do not follow him

Then how can He guide our conscience if He is quenched.

We said the same thing.

Yes, it is possible to quench the Spirit. In other words to lose our salvation.

yes.. We are new creatures. BUT THE FLESH IS STILL THERE that is why we are warned all over the NT to not feed its lusts..

That is why it is important to not quench the Spirit. Once you are in the Spirit, you can either stay there, or quench Him and die.

 

[charismaticlady]

Wow, @Eternally-Grateful

You sure are prolific. Ask me again whatever I missed. Thanks, brother. Actually, I don't know. Are you a sister?

 

[Doug Brents]

I explained what this means. It means physical death.

salvation is not context here

So you are saying that the death mentioned in Gen 3 is also physical death? No, the death that results from sin is ALWAYS spiritual death.

 

[charismaticlady]

, Eternally Grateful is correct.

Correct.

Charismaticlady,
All sin is lawlessness.
All sin is missing the mark.
There is no such sin that doesnt miss the mark.
There is no such sin that is not lawlessness.

Another way of saying lawlessness is to say transgression of Gods law,
1John 3:4,
- Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law
for sin  is the transgression of the law

John in the verse I'm using said,
For sin  is lawlessness

Same as Jesus' use of the word iniquity/lawlessness
Matthew 7:23,
- and then will I profess unto them I never knew you depart from Me ye that work lawlessness.

Heres an English Bible I do not care for but in this passage they rightly translated,

- but I will reply I never knew you get away from Me, you who break Gods laws, NLT

The Greek word used here is anomia. Here are diferent English words used in translation:
Lawlessness
Iniquity
Transgression

Interesting the word anomia which is lawless works or violation of Gods law also can be referred to as wickedness.

So the wicked are wicked because they do lawless works.
Violating the commandments in the new testament law of Christ is wickedness.

And there are a great many that teach it is not essential for ones salvation to work the commandments of God.
So in their ignorance they are teaching a false gospel of lawless wickedness.
They deny ALL works.
They teach a gospel of faith alone and no works for salvation which is completely unbiblical.

1 John 5:16-17
16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

Numbers 15:22-36 shows that not all transgressions hold the same weight to God. For the unintentional sin, God supplies a sacrifice to pay for it. But for the sin unto death, God demands their life for eternity.

 

[Selah]

sHow did I learn His words on here?
A MAN named DavidTree shared scripture with me.

WHICH VIOLATES DavidTree's ENTIRE DOCTRINE OF MAN PLAYS NO PART IN ANOTHER MANS SALVATION.

If you truly believe what you teach then WHY are you sharing scripture with me?
You should only allow God to do it all directly by Himself.

If you really believe Paul and Apollos had no part in salvation.
Then why are you a man sharing scripture?
Why are you not letting God do it all for me?

By you teaching and sharing scripture you contradict your own teaching.
You really dont believe man has no part in another mans FAITH.

1 Peter 2:9-10 (NKJV) 9 But you [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 who once [were] not a people but [are] now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.

@Titus
Who do you think the scriptures above are written to? It’s actually written in 1 Peter 1:1-2. What is it that we Christians are supposed to be doing as servants of God?

To be clear, it is the LORD God Almighty who does the saving. We are His workmanship, as described in Ephesians 2:10.

1 Peter 1:1-2 (NKJV) 1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.
Ephesians 2:8-10 (NKJV) 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; [it is] the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
s e l a h

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Spiritual death is more important to God, so I disagree. Ultimately, yes, it is physical death for eternity.

Spiritual death was handles on the cross

We must be born again

those born again have been made alive, and God calls this life eternal life. he also said this life will never cease. (we will never perish)

There is not always a need for 24/7. But to be available I think is all God wants.

Oh I agree.

But I am just saying, not all of us do this all the time..

Because God is light, we cannot be in the flesh if we are in the Spirit. I do not believe we go in and out of the Spirit.

The passage says we can.

Do not grieve the spirit.

but he also said, we are sealed by that same spirit until redemption day (resurrection day)

it means the HS is Gods pledge to us that he will keep his promise. even when we are flaithless he is faithful. He can not deny himself

God saved us on his promise. Not our worthiness

What created the fall? SIN There was no going back for us. This is why only God could overcome Satan's hold on the world through taking away our SIN 1 John 3:4-5

He took away the penalty of sin

he did not take away the ability to sin

But the CONTEXT is different. Verses 7:5-6 shows us no longer in the flesh. But 14-25 shows us in the flesh. Which came first? Us as victors over sin? Or us trapped in sin? And then 8:9 shows us not in the flesh.

What happened to save us? - Jesus.

No. context is the same

15 ;For what I am doing, (present tense) I do not understand. For what I will to do, (present tense. not past tense. not his former life. right here and now as he is writing these words) that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. (Paul did not hate sin when he was lost. He loved his sin. he just did nto know alot of it was sin at the time, he had no capacity to know) 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. (again. present tense. this is what happens now.18  For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. (again this is now. as he is righting, not his past..19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 ;Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 ;For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

again all in the now.. Paul still considered him self the chief of all sinners.

the more mature we become the more of a sinner we see we are.

amen, I am a wretched me, thanks be to God through the ressection of Christ.. he has saved me

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

We said the same thing.

Yes, it is possible to quench the Spirit. In other words to lose our salvation.

no, read again, By which we are sealed until the day of redemption

he did nto say do not griev the spirit or you will lose him..

That is why it is important to not quench the Spirit. Once you are in the Spirit, you can either stay there, or quench Him and die.

thats not what it is saying

You have eternal life. and Gods promise you will not die (john 3 and John 5) and others

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Wow, @Eternally-Grateful

You sure are prolific. Ask me again whatever I missed. Thanks, brother. Actually, I don't know. Are you a sister?

Brother,, 60 years in my earthly body. almost 50 years in my spiritual body (saved)

Thanks yourself. iron sharpens iron. You have me thinking alot (I had to go back to romans 7 and review)

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

So you are saying that the death mentioned in Gen 3 is also physical death? No, the death that results from sin is ALWAYS spiritual death.

Dying you will die

spiritual deat h was the result of adam sin and our sin it is why jesus came to the cross.

a secondary result is physical death.

I can not see spiritual death in a person.. (if they die again) Can you?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

1 John 5:16-17
16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

Numbers 15:22-36 shows that not all transgressions hold the same weight to God. For the unintentional sin, God supplies a sacrifice to pay for it. But for the sin unto death, God demands their life for eternity.

can you see a person suffer spiritual death?

I can;t..

So physical death has to be context here

because we can see a person who commits a sin which leads to physical death..

 

[Doug Brents]

Dying you will die

spiritual deat h was the result of adam sin and our sin it is why jesus came to the cross.

a secondary result is physical death.

I can not see spiritual death in a person.. (if they die again) Can you?

It is irrelevant whether we can see spiritual death in a person or not. What is relevant is that the death in view in Rom 6:16 is spiritual death. That is the death which results from sin that Scripture is focused on. That is the death that Jesus came to Earth to fix. Physical death still occurs, and will continue to occur until Jesus' second coming.

We do not know whether physical death resulted from sin or not. There is absolutely no mention of physical death before the Fall, so we have no way of knowing if plants, animals, or man died of any natural cause.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

It is irrelevant whether we can see spiritual death in a person or not.

not it is not. Because Jesus said if you see a person comming a sin not leading to death

Unless you can see a person die.. that statement is irrevelent because it would be impossible to know

What is relevant is that the death in view in Rom 6:16 is spiritual death. That is the death which results from sin that Scripture is focused on. That is the death that Jesus came to Earth to fix. Physical death still occurs, and will continue to occur until Jesus' second coming.

We do not know whether physical death resulted from sin or not. There is absolutely no mention of physical death before the Fall, so we have no way of knowing if plants, animals, or man died of any natural cause.

Spiritual death was taken care of on the cross.

You can not make yourself alive by anything you do. nothing you can do will cause God to forgive the least of your sins. let aloner the worst.

 

[Richard]

There defiantly are sins that lead to physical death. Murder can land you a spot on "Death-Row". Drunkenness and a fatal car wreck. Homosexuality and Aids. And the list goes on.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

There defiantly are sins that lead to physical death. Murder can land you a spot on "Death-Row". Drunkenness and a fatal car wreck. Homosexuality and Aids. And the list goes on.

amen

which is why the word says, if you see a brother sinning a sin that does not lead to death.

we should pray for them, and get them help. before they do something that may lead to their death and possibly the death of others.

Not condemn them to hell

 

[Titus]

1 John 5:16-17
16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

Numbers 15:22-36 shows that not all transgressions hold the same weight to God. For the unintentional sin, God supplies a sacrifice to pay for it. But for the sin unto death, God demands their life for eternity.

Would you please explain to me what John means?
What is a sin which leads to death?
What is a sin which does not lead to death.
Which of these sins is or is not lawlessness?
Thanks

 

[charismaticlady]

Spiritual death was handles on the cross

We must be born again

those born again have been made alive, and God calls this life eternal life. he also said this life will never cease. (we will never perish)

Yes, but it is like God made our reservations to keep. Yes, we must be born again. I'm glad we agree

Oh I agree.

But I am just saying, not all of us do this all the time..

I have a tendency to see the truth of scripture by examining my own life having lived on both sides of my own salvation and can see the difference. I remember teachers saying we go in and out of the flesh, but I know that it is those who are in the flesh that do not at the same time belong to Christ. Romans 8:9 It made me more digitally obey. It brought me to a new level of obedience even to death. (my marriage to an abuser).

The passage says we can.

Do not grieve the spirit.

but he also said, we are sealed by that same spirit until redemption day (resurrection day)

it means the HS is Gods pledge to us that he will keep his promise. even when we are flaithless he is faithful. He can not deny himself

God saved us on his promise. Not our worthiness

He took away the penalty of sin

he did not take away the ability to sin

The penalty for sin is only gone when we no longer sin. It is not the other way around.

No. context is the same

15 ;For what I am doing, (present tense) I do not understand. For what I will to do, (present tense. not past tense. not his former life. right here and now as he is writing these words) that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. (Paul did not hate sin when he was lost. He loved his sin. he just did nto know alot of it was sin at the time, he had no capacity to know) 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. (again. present tense. this is what happens now.18  For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. (again this is now. as he is righting, not his past..19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 ;Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 ;For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

again all in the now.. Paul still considered him self the chief of all sinners.

the more mature we become the more of a sinner we see we are.

amen, I am a wretched me, thanks be to God through the ressection of Christ.. he has saved me

Do you know that Paul taught that we are no longer under the law? Can you then explain why you believe Romans 7:14-25 describing those UNDER the law is about us who are no longer in the flesh?

The truth is:
Before Christ we are both UNDER the law and IN the flesh.
After Christ we are both NOT under the law, and NOT in the flesh.

That is the context. You let yourself get caught up in western tenses, and lost sight of the eastern meaning.

 

[charismaticlady]

Would you please explain to me what John means?
What is a sin which leads to death?
What is a sin which does not lead to death.
Which of these sins is or is not lawlessness?
Thanks

It is the difference between willful sin and unintentional sin. It is of the heart.
Willful sins lead to death. God provides a sacrifice for unintentional sin as we walk in the Spirit and are saved.

 

[charismaticlady]

Brother,, 60 years in my earthly body. almost 50 years in my spiritual body (saved)

Thanks yourself. iron sharpens iron. You have me thinking alot (I had to go back to romans 7 and review)

Just a baby! I'm your older sister! Wise also, thus my avatar.

 

[Selah]

Would you please explain to me what John means?
What is a sin which leads to death?
What is a sin which does not lead to death.
Which of these sins is or is not lawlessness?
Thanks

I believe that every sin can be forgiven by our heavenly Father upon repentance except for one.

The unpardonable sin:
Matthew 12:31-32 (NKJV) 31 “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy [against] the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 “Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the [age] to come.

s e l a h