"Works Salvation"

[Seabass]

Which is why i ask everyone = 'which came first the chicken or the egg???'

Answer: Christ's Obedience SAVES us, when we are obedient to God's Calling us

"thru the Obedience of One Man, many will be made righteous"

Notice how the Holy Spirit does not include our obedience in Salvation but only CHRIST's in
this direct declaration.

Once God firmly establishes CHRIST's Obedience in the heart of the man/woman HE is calling, then our response is to obey the Father's Call to come to CHRIST

Yes or No?

Without Christ's obedience there would be no salvation at all for man. But Christ did obey His Father by going to the cross but that does not mean man does not have to obey God too. Man is to follow in Christ's steps by obeying Christ Heb 5:8-9.

Paul does NOT say many will be made righteous UNCONDITIONALLY. People read the idea of "unconditional" into these verses in Rom 5. Paul begins Rom 5 by saying justified by faith...faith is CONDITIONAL upon being justified. Hence justification of life is CONDITIONAL upon having faith. Christ's obedience in going to the cross does not UNCONDITIONALLY saved all men but saves those who CONDITIONALLY have an OBEDIENT faith.

 

[Seabass]

@Seabass



You must be God to change from a nature of disobedience to God, unto obedience to God. You need no Saviour

Man must have a Saviour to be saved but man can choose to obey that Saviour and be saved (Heb 5:9) of obey not and be lost in flaming fire (2 Thess 1;8) where obedience is the separating line between the saved and lost and not some random, unconditional choice God makes for man.

 

[brightfame52]

Man must have a Saviour to be saved but man can choose to obey that Saviour and be saved (Heb 5:9) of obey not and be lost in flaming fire (2 Thess 1;8) where obedience is the separating line between the saved and lost and not some random, unconditional choice God makes for man.

Man by nature is bound over to disobedience Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

This word unbelief is also disobedience, now by nature God hath concluded man in unbelief or disobedience.

For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.NKJV

Now you saying, man can freewill his way out of this prison and obey, thats Greater than God

 

[brightfame52]

@Seabass

Without Christ's obedience there would be no salvation at all for man.

True, but His Obedience effects Salvation Heb 5:9

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

The obeying Him is the result/fruit of Him being the author of their Salvation. In other words obedience to Him comes from Him saving us,

By nature we are children of disobedience Eph 2:2-3

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

The hear you say it, all the children of disobedience have to do is exercise their freewill and become obedient children lol
1 Pet 1:13-14

13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:

 

[brightfame52]

@Seabass

Paul does NOT say many will be made righteous UNCONDITIONALLY.

It was conditioned on Christs obedience, by His obedience many shall be made righteous, or obedient Heb 5:9

The word righteous in Rom 5:19 dikaios:
righteous, observing/obeying divine laws

1. in a wide sense, upright, righteous, virtuous, keeping the commands of God
   
   1. of those who seem to themselves to be righteous, who pride themselves to be righteous, who pride themselves in their virtues, whether real or imagined
   2. innocent, faultless, guiltles
   3. 
      
   4. 
      
   5. used of him whose way of thinking, feeling, and acting is wholly conformed to the will of God, and who therefore needs no rectification in the heart or life
      
      

• Paul's ministry was to make gentiles obedient Rom 15:18
• 
  
• For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,

 

[DavidTree]

Man must have a Saviour to be saved but man can choose to obey that Saviour and be saved (Heb 5:9) of obey not and be lost in flaming fire (2 Thess 1;8) where obedience is the separating line between the saved and lost and not some random, unconditional choice God makes for man.

Is it our own choice - completely of ourselves in deciding to be saved?