Works and Salvation

Bob Carabbio said:
OR Your interpretation is wrong. It's only "theology" after all. The Holy Spirit indwelled NOBODY until after Calvary, and Jesus' perfect SIN OFFERING. but plenty of folks were fully motivated by (filled) all through the Old Testament. People who've been Born Again, are Indwelled by the Holy SPirit, and occasionally Filled with Him (Motivated/given power by him) also when that type of ministry is required.
Click to expand...
I don't have an interpretation. It says John will be filled with the Holy Spirit. That's plain language. No interpretation needed.
 
brightfame52 said:
Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Them who are in the flesh, which all the unregenerate are, having not the Spirit, they cannot please Rom 8:8

So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

And Faith/Seeking God pleases Him according to Heb 11:6

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

If a person does seek God, that means they have been regenerated, duh
Click to expand...
Nope faith precedes regeneration

One is born again(regenerated) through faith in gospel

James 1:18 (KJV)
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.


Regeneration is the mechanism of salvation

Titus 3:5 (KJV)
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Ephesians 2:5 (KJV)
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

it is through faith we are saved

EPH 2:8 (KJV)
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Thus through faith we are regenerated .

Regeneration is preceded by remission of sin

Colossians 2:13 (KJV)
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

which requires both faith and repentance

Acts 10:43 (KJV)
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Luke 24:47 (KJV)
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
 
TomL said:
Nope faith precedes regeneration

One is born again(regenerated) through faith in gospel

James 1:18 (KJV)
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.


Regeneration is the mechanism of salvation

Titus 3:5 (KJV)
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Ephesians 2:5 (KJV)
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

it is through faith we are saved

EPH 2:8 (KJV)
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Thus through faith we are regenerated .

Regeneration is preceded by remission of sin

Colossians 2:13 (KJV)
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

which requires both faith and repentance

Acts 10:43 (KJV)
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Luke 24:47 (KJV)
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Click to expand...
Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Them who are in the flesh, which all the unregenerate are, having not the Spirit, they cannot please Rom 8:8

So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

And Faith/Seeking God pleases Him according to Heb 11:6

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

If a person does seek God, that means they have been regenerated, duh
 
brightfame52 said:
Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Them who are in the flesh, which all the unregenerate are, having not the Spirit, they cannot please Rom 8:8

So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

And Faith/Seeking God pleases Him according to Heb 11:6

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

If a person does seek God, that means they have been regenerated, duh
Click to expand...
no it means they have faith.

next
 
civic said:
no it means they have faith.

next
Click to expand...
Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Them who are in the flesh, which all the unregenerate are, having not the Spirit, they cannot please Rom 8:8

So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

And Faith/Seeking God pleases Him according to Heb 11:6

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

If a person does seek God, that means they have been regenerated, duh
 
The Rogue Tomato said:
And how do you know that...

Psalm 51:11 Cast me not forth from Thy presence, And Thy Holy Spirit take not from me.
Luke 11:13 If, then, ye, being evil, have known good gifts to be giving to your children, how much more shall the Father who is from heaven give the Holy Spirit to those asking Him!'

Is only influence and not indwelling, other than assuming that the Holy Spirit could not indwell based on John 20:22 breathing on the disciples? It seems to me that you're enforcing a rule that is not found anywhere in scripture. "How much more shall the Father who is from heaven give the Holy Spirit to those asking Him" doesn't sound to me like it can only be an influence. Give/receive go hand in hand.
Click to expand...
Even Isaac was born after the Spirit and was persecuted by them born after the flesh, even as it is today Gal 429

But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
 
brightfame52 said:
Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Them who are in the flesh, which all the unregenerate are, having not the Spirit, they cannot please Rom 8:8

So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

And Faith/Seeking God pleases Him according to Heb 11:6

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

If a person does seek God, that means they have been regenerated, duh
Click to expand...
You totally ignored this

Nope faith precedes regeneration

One is born again(regenerated) through faith in gospel

James 1:18 (KJV)
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.


Regeneration is the mechanism of salvation

Titus 3:5 (KJV)
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Ephesians 2:5 (KJV)
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

it is through faith we are saved

EPH 2:8 (KJV)
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Thus through faith we are regenerated .

Regeneration is preceded by remission of sin

Colossians 2:13 (KJV)
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

which requires both faith and repentance

Acts 10:43 (KJV)
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Luke 24:47 (KJV)
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

just as you ignored this

Acts 17:26-27: From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out to him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us.

Hosea 5:15 (KJV) — 15 I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.

2 Chronicles 11:16 (KJV) — 16 And after them out of all the tribes of Israel such as set their hearts to seek the LORD God of Israel came to Jerusalem, to sacrifice unto the LORD God of their fathers.

2 Chronicles 19:3 (KJV) — 3 Nevertheless there are good things found in thee, in that thou hast taken away the groves out of the land, and hast prepared thine heart to seek God.

2 Chronicles 20:3 (KJV) — 3 And Jehoshaphat feared, and set himself to seek the LORD, and proclaimed a fast throughout all Judah.

2 Chronicles 20:4 (KJV) — 4 And Judah gathered themselves together, to ask help of the LORD: even out of all the cities of Judah they came to seek the LORD.

2 Chronicles 30:18–20 (KJV) — 18 For a multitude of the people, even many of Ephraim, and Manasseh, Issachar, and Zebulun, had not cleansed themselves, yet did they eat the passover otherwise than it was written. But Hezekiah prayed for them, saying, The good LORD pardon every one 19 That prepareth his heart to seek God, the LORD God of his fathers, though he be not cleansed according to the purification of the sanctuary. 20 And the LORD hearkened to Hezekiah, and healed the people.

2 Chronicles 34:3 (KJV) — 3 For in the eighth year of his reign, while he was yet young, he began to seek after the God of David his father: and in the twelfth year he began to purge Judah and Jerusalem from the high places, and the groves, and the carved images, and the molten images.

Ezra 6:21 (KJV) — 21 And the children of Israel, which were come again out of captivity, and all such as had separated themselves unto them from the filthiness of the heathen of the land, to seek the LORD God of Israel, did eat,

Ezra 7:10 (KJV) — 10 For Ezra had prepared his heart to seek the law of the LORD, and to do it, and to teach in Israel statutes and judgments.

Isaiah 58:2 (KJV) — 2 Yet they seek me daily, and delight to know my ways, as a nation that did righteousness, and forsook not the ordinance of their God: they ask of me the ordinances of justice; they take delight in approaching to God.

Psalm 9:10 (KJV) — 10 And they that know thy name will put their trust in thee: for thou, LORD, hast not forsaken them that seek thee.
 
brightfame52 said:
Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Them who are in the flesh, which all the unregenerate are, having not the Spirit, they cannot please Rom 8:8

So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

And Faith/Seeking God pleases Him according to Heb 11:6

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

If a person does seek God, that means they have been regenerated, duh
Click to expand...
Just keep the "Duh" out and make your case.
 
TomL said:
I make it a habit to never put anyone on ignore. I would not want to let slide comments I feel are unbiblical without providing rebuttal
Click to expand...
We are commanded to test the spirits and some spirits are "draining" me-so I don't want to react in my flesh.
Might sound pious but it is not the case.
 
TomL said:
You totally ignored this

Nope faith precedes regeneration

One is born again(regenerated) through faith in gospel

James 1:18 (KJV)
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.


Regeneration is the mechanism of salvation

Titus 3:5 (KJV)
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Ephesians 2:5 (KJV)
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

it is through faith we are saved

EPH 2:8 (KJV)
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Thus through faith we are regenerated .

Regeneration is preceded by remission of sin

Colossians 2:13 (KJV)
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

which requires both faith and repentance

Acts 10:43 (KJV)
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Luke 24:47 (KJV)
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

just as you ignored this

Acts 17:26-27: From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out to him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us.

Hosea 5:15 (KJV) — 15 I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.

2 Chronicles 11:16 (KJV) — 16 And after them out of all the tribes of Israel such as set their hearts to seek the LORD God of Israel came to Jerusalem, to sacrifice unto the LORD God of their fathers.

2 Chronicles 19:3 (KJV) — 3 Nevertheless there are good things found in thee, in that thou hast taken away the groves out of the land, and hast prepared thine heart to seek God.

2 Chronicles 20:3 (KJV) — 3 And Jehoshaphat feared, and set himself to seek the LORD, and proclaimed a fast throughout all Judah.

2 Chronicles 20:4 (KJV) — 4 And Judah gathered themselves together, to ask help of the LORD: even out of all the cities of Judah they came to seek the LORD.

2 Chronicles 30:18–20 (KJV) — 18 For a multitude of the people, even many of Ephraim, and Manasseh, Issachar, and Zebulun, had not cleansed themselves, yet did they eat the passover otherwise than it was written. But Hezekiah prayed for them, saying, The good LORD pardon every one 19 That prepareth his heart to seek God, the LORD God of his fathers, though he be not cleansed according to the purification of the sanctuary. 20 And the LORD hearkened to Hezekiah, and healed the people.

2 Chronicles 34:3 (KJV) — 3 For in the eighth year of his reign, while he was yet young, he began to seek after the God of David his father: and in the twelfth year he began to purge Judah and Jerusalem from the high places, and the groves, and the carved images, and the molten images.

Ezra 6:21 (KJV) — 21 And the children of Israel, which were come again out of captivity, and all such as had separated themselves unto them from the filthiness of the heathen of the land, to seek the LORD God of Israel, did eat,

Ezra 7:10 (KJV) — 10 For Ezra had prepared his heart to seek the law of the LORD, and to do it, and to teach in Israel statutes and judgments.

Isaiah 58:2 (KJV) — 2 Yet they seek me daily, and delight to know my ways, as a nation that did righteousness, and forsook not the ordinance of their God: they ask of me the ordinances of justice; they take delight in approaching to God.

Psalm 9:10 (KJV) — 10 And they that know thy name will put their trust in thee: for thou, LORD, hast not forsaken them that seek thee.
Click to expand...
Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Them who are in the flesh, which all the unregenerate are, having not the Spirit, they cannot please Rom 8:8

So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

And Faith/Seeking God pleases Him according to Heb 11:6

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

If a person does seek God, that means they have been regenerated, duh
 
Johann said:
Absolutely correct here-wonder how many are indeed indwelt by the Holy Spirit.
We are commanded to try the spirits.
Click to expand...
testing of the spirits has nothing to do with who is indwelling by the Holy Spirit. It has everything to do with the origin of the message. Is it from God or man.world/devil. The spirit of God vs the spirit of antichrist.

Do you know what the spirit of antichrist teaches ? yes or no

please explain in your own words without a copy/paste.

see 1 John 4:1-5 and 2 John 1:7
 
civic said:
testing of the spirits has nothing to do with who is indwelling by the Holy Spirit. It has everything to do with the origin of the message. Is it from God or man.world/devil. The spirit of God vs the spirit of antichrist.

Do you know what the spirit of antichrist teaches ? yes or no

please explain in your own words without a copy/paste.

see 1 John 4:1-5 and 2 John 1:7
Click to expand...
I have asked if it is my right to put you on ignore since this is getting too personal for my liking and if any member should disagree with you there's problems.
You are not willing to see the opposing views since you are the only one correct on this Forum.

Till then-I'll wait since I have no desire to have a dialogue with you.
 
Johann said:
I have asked if it is my right to put you on ignore since this is getting too personal for my liking and if any member should disagree with you there's problems.
You are not willing to see the opposing views since you are the only one correct on this Forum.

Till then-I'll wait since I have no desire to have a dialogue with you.
Click to expand...
you can place anyone on ignore thats your right. you sure like to post theology and ideas but resist having them challenged.

I have mine challenged every day here just like everyone else does, thats the nature of christian forums in general to test what you believe and have it challenged by others. We either affirm what someone posts or disagree with it and challenge the beliefs.

There would be no online forums if everyone agreed on everything.

BTW-I have not called you any names, insulted you personally. I have challenged some of your doctrines but most of them I agree with brother.
 

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