Will Babies that die go to Heaven?

[Grace ambassador]

methinks sometime that to Avoid division, "vainglory, and strife" just obey God:

"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences
contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them." (Romans 16:17)

Opposite of "bashing them over the head with the Bible," eh?

Amen.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

The La doesn't show us we all sin, it shows us we are sinners. Big difference.

Don't be ridiculous the bible says we all SIN, and there's no difference at all. Where do you get this silly stuff???

I doubt that. James 1:14 is clear temptation is from within.

And the enticement is from without. ( Gen 3:1, Mat 4: 1-10)

So the angels that sinned are locked up but these "demons" are loose on the planet? Tell me, what are "demons?"

Which "theological opinion would you like???

Are you here to provide other peoples' bible study or do you have any original thoughts yourself?

Insult ignored they're common here.

After 60 years as a Born again Christian, I've heard any number of opinions, from any number of sources. Since I'm an OEC, and go with the "Gap theory" - i.e. there's an unknown span of time between Gen 1:1, and Gen 1:2, and any number of "Creations" on this dirt ball before the Adamic creation, could be that "Demons" are the disembodied spirits of earth's inhabitants from previous creations. They don't share characteristics in common with "Angels".

 

[TedT]

Great. Now who are the sons of God?
Please don't say angels because angels are a creation of God and share no paternity with God unlike the Only Begotten Son.

The Sons of GOD include every person ever created in HIS image ie, able to become a proper Bride for HIM. They all had a free will and an equal ability and opportunity to put their faith in HIM as their GOD and saviour OR to rebuke HIM as a liar and therefore a false god.

Once someone chose to rebuke HIM, sinning the unforgivabe sin, they became reprobate illegitimate children by this choice:
Deuteronomy 32:5 “They have corrupted themselves; They are not His children because of their blemish but a perverse and crooked generation.
OR
their blemish is that they are not HIS children.

But merely choosing to become sinful is not the criteria for losing the status of being HIS children because sinful legitimate children are mentioned in Heb 12:8. The sin that would seem to be much worse than the sin of the elect legitimate children to be so totally corrupting of themselves so it must be the unforgivable sin of totally repudiating HIM by their free will thereby joining the ranks of the people of the evil one sown into the earth by the devil, Matt 13:36-39.

Since ALL the sons of GOD saw HIS creation of the physical universe, these sons must have been in spirit form as pre-physical but they were not angels because angel is a job description, not a race or type of being / person.

 

[jeremiah1five]

No offense but I'm not following you. The strongest urge we have as human beings is to live. How could a baby possibly comprehend that it would be to his advantage to die to go and be with God.

It's not about a baby dying it's about those that erroneously believe that by virtue of being a baby secures all their lives to eternity with just because they are babies. There's no biblical support for this.

I'm familiar with the doctrine of the perseverance of the Saints and that election would ensure infants who died going to heaven. But that's not even close to what I'm talking about.

The doctrine of election by God is one thing but those believing God elects all babies that die to salvation is another. This means there is a condition by which God elects to salvation and it's merely by being a baby. That is NOT the doctrine of salvation. It's about God's Sovereign choice not on any pre-existing condition such as being a baby. You should know this if you truly understand the doctrine of God's election.

A young child has no ability to perceive what God has revealed and made manifest and then reject it. Young children are not “futile in their thoughts.” They have no awareness of the things God has revealed and, therefore, they can neither cry out to God nor turn away from Him.

Salvation is of the LORD, Jonah said. Everything about the Sovereign salvation God has given to His elect is a gift with no conditions such as being a baby. This denies God's Sovereignty and diminishes His glory if it doesn't take it away from Him altogether.

A young child is truly incapable of rebellion against God because rebellion against God is rooted in deliberate, willful hatred of God.

It matters not whether one is old enough to rebel against God, the sin nature is rebellion enough for "hell" and the Lake of Fire.

Speaking through the prophet Isaiah, the Lord said, “Before the Child shall know to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land that you dread will be forsaken by both her kings”. Isa. 7:16
The Lord was referring to the state of young childhood, a time when a person is incapable of making a willful choice to rebel against God. There is no statement in the Scriptures that indicates divine judgment comes to those who never have a knowledge of right and wrong, or who never have the opportunity to choose whether they will love or hate God.

Jesus didn't die for the willful choice of sin, He died to change our sin nature into His righteous nature, and He did that by taking our sin nature to Himself which is what killed Him, and we receive His righteous nature which gives us life.
And Isaiah is not addressing salvation. Nor is he establishing a requirement that to be able to sin or not sin is assigned to an age.

 

[jeremiah1five]

False. Adam wasn't God, but THAT in and of itself HAS NOTHING TO DO with "fallen short of god's glory". OUR SIN (Isa 59:2) is the reason .

Of course, it does. The last Adam was holy, righteous, sinless, He was God and was able to stand before a holy, righteous sinless God the Father blameless with no fault in His Person.
The first Adam was not even close to possessing any Nature of Deific Attributes of Deity and in this he sinned. He sinned because he was a sinner. He sinned because he was created from dirt fallen short of the glory of God. The word for that is sin.

ANd "Enticement" is from without. Jesus' recorded temptation demonstrates that.

That's only if you see "devil" as a noun or pronoun but the word is an adjective. Thus, Jesus was alone in the desert and His temptations as James declared is from within. Scripture does not teach two ways of temptation but one. James 1:14.

And that they had little or no "FAITH" is also recorded.

Israel didn't get to the promise land kicking and screaming. Moses took them there and Joshua led them in, and they followed willingly with all the faith in God to do what He asked against the walls of Jericho. Who does something like that?
Israel did. More power to them for their obedience. They got the victory.

And if you bother to read with undersatanding, the "Locked up Angels" were from Noah's time. You'd do well to pay attention to CONTEXT.

Whether in Noah's time or between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2, the angels that sinned are locked up and they are not loose on the planet.

Pure FOOLISHNESS!!!!

The Law/Command was in the Garden. The Law/Command shows us we are sinners. The Law/Command in the Garden shows us that Adam was a sinner before the act of sin.
Sin comes from sinner.

 

[jeremiah1five]

ABsolutely - AFTER we start SINNING.

It doesn't say that.

Paul said when the Command came sin revived and he died. (no reference to acts of sin)
The mere existence of the Law/Command of God shows we are sinners before the act.

Nope - your silly "private interpretation" is in error. What denominational paradigm did you pick that foolishness up from???
Nope God did everything perfectly.
Which "theological " opinion would you like???

Scripture.

 

[TedT]

If we understand that God by His nature is a Savior, is it not the truest expression of God’s heart that He chooses to save infants?

IF HE is by nature the saviour of all sinners then HE must save the reprobate sinners too. IF we reject universal salvation as wishful, not biblical, thinking then HE will only save the elect (sons of the kingdom) infants, not the reprobate (sons of the evil one) infants.

Why some sins are unforgivable:
They can't be forgiven because
- a free will decision must be sacrosanct and unchangeable by GOD or it is not free in any proper sense of the word but only conditional.
- They made the decision to rebel against GOD's claims to Deity by their free will while knowing that they would be banished to hell if they were wrong about HIM. They were so full of themselves that they were willing to put their eternal fate on the line, so sure were they HE was not a real god but a liar.

- Once they rebelled they became enslaved by the enslaving addictive power of evil which destroyed their ability to seek true repentance. They were instantly and totally unable to repent of their evil and became fully leavened in the belief they were right to rebel against this upstart liar and false god. Since they cannot save themselves and they have by their free will put themselves outside of HIS willingness to save them, their fate is sealed and they are condemned already.

 

[TedT]

Infants and unborn babies Do not possess the ability practice any of the above. Therefore they are not held accountable. They go to heaven.

Either you don't know about the story of Jacob and Esau trying to crush each other to pieces, that is, to murder each other in the womb, Genesis 25 or you agree with the modern writers of scripture in their exegetic endeavours to prove infants are innocent by changing the biblical Hebrew word to crush each other to pieces to jostle or struggle...

 

[jeremiah1five]

The Sons of GOD include every person ever created in HIS image ie, able to become a proper Bride for HIM. They all had a free will and an equal ability and opportunity to put their faith in HIM as their GOD and saviour OR to rebuke HIM as a liar and therefore a false god.

The image of God is not man. The image of God is the Son. There is no better image of a Holy Father than a Holy Son. We are being conformed into the image of Christ and not Adam for very good reason. There's nothing redeemable in man. But there is everything worthwhile in God's Son.
There is no free will. Free will is an illusion. God knows the beginning from the end because He ordained the end. God could not do this if man truly had free will.
God's will is Sovereign.
There is "no opportunity to put faith in Christ" for men are dead in trespasses and sin and Scripture says everything about salvation is a gift of God even faith.

Once someone chose to rebuke HIM, sinning the unforgivabe sin,

The unforgivable sin cannot be committed by born again believers because they are in the hands of the Father and the Son and no one can pluck them out of that security, not even the person.
The unforgivable sin is being unatoned and non-elect of God.

they became reprobate illegitimate children by this choice:
Deuteronomy 32:5 “They have corrupted themselves; They are not His children because of their blemish but a perverse and crooked generation.
OR
their blemish is that they are not HIS children.

The Abrahamic Covenant insured Abraham and his descendants many promises both natural and spiritual.
The covenant was with Abraham and his descendants and God cannot lie. He will keep all His promises even though frail sons do not. What happen to Israel in the First Covenant is happening to the Gentile Church today. Disobedience, rebellion, false gods, you name it they have done it. But if they are saved, they are still God's adopted children and God will keep His promises to Abraham/children of Israel.

But merely choosing to become sinful is not the criteria for losing the status of being HIS children because sinful legitimate children are mentioned in Heb 12:8. The sin that would seem to be much worse than the sin of the elect legitimate children to be so totally corrupting of themselves so it must be the unforgivable sin of totally repudiating HIM by their free will thereby joining the ranks of the people of the evil one sown into the earth by the devil, Matt 13:36-39.

One can tell the difference between wheat and tares.
Free will in man and angel is an illusion. There is only God's will.

Since ALL the sons of GOD saw HIS creation of the physical universe, these sons must have been in spirit form as pre-physical but they were not angels because angel is a job description, not a race or type of being / person.

What's the possibility in your mind an "angel" of God is actually His Word spoken?

 

[TedT]

No infant suppresses the truth. A young child has no ability to perceive what God has revealed and made manifest and then reject it. Young children are not “futile in their thoughts.” They have no awareness of the things God has revealed and, therefore, they can neither cry out to God nor turn away from Him. They have no accountability.

Yet they die as receiving the wages for sin...

 

[TedT]

One can tell the difference between wheat and tares.
Free will in man and angel is an illusion. There is only God's will.

Then there is no true holiness
no true love
no true heavenly marriage
no true judgement against sin.

 

[Clifford]

Yet they die as receiving the wages for sin...

So abortion is the result of receiving the wages for sin?

 

[Aeliana]

Children may be self-centered and selfish. They may throw tantrums, cry in anger, steal cookies, bop their siblings on the head, or kick sand into the faces of their little friends on the playground. They may defy their parents, saying “No” when the appropriate response is an obedient “Yes.” They may lie to cover their misdeeds.

Certainly we are correct in believing that all these actions are wrong—yes, even sinful.

But the child cannot assess in his own heart that his actions violate God or that there is any such concept as sin against God and His holy law. He knows that he has done something Mom and Dad don’t like because Mom and Dad tell him so! He has no understanding that his rebellion, lying, stealing, and so forth are in violation of God’s law and that such actions have any form of eternal consequence.

Young children are incapable of understanding God in this way. They could not grasp the gospel if they heard it. They haven’t any capacity to receive Jesus as Savior—to repent and believe—or to refuse Him.

Therefore they have absolutely no access to salvation.

The good news is they are, therefore, innocent of knowing the full importance, impact, or consequences of their actions. Infants who die do not have anything written in the record of heaven against them because they have never committed any conscious deeds of rebellion and iniquity against God. Young children are not yet responsible moral agents—in other words, they are not yet culpable for their actions because they simply do not fully know what they are doing and the consequences associated with their behavior.

And that is why they go to heaven.

 

[TedT]

So abortion is the result of receiving the wages for sin?

Yes...and sinfulness on the adult side of things.

Is this not expressed in
Ps 51:5 Surely I was sinful at birth,
sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

6 Yet you desired faithfulness even in the womb;
you taught me wisdom in that secret place.

An elect sinner who needs to be born into Adam to come into the redemption by the death of Christ may learn faithfulness in the womb so has no need to live a long and suffering life to learn it like the rest of us.

 

[Frank Russell]

cannot assess in his own heart that his actions violate God or that there is any such concept as sin against God and His holy law. He knows that he has done something Mom and Dad don’t like because Mom and Dad tell him so! He has no understanding that his rebellion, lying, stealing, and so forth are in violation of God’s law and that such actions have any form of eternal consequence.

Sounds like a lot of adults, seems to be moving to an ultimate reconciliation conclusion there.

 

[Obadiah]

Scripture teaches that we are judged on the basis of our deeds willfully committed “in the body”

For we must all appear and be revealed as we are before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive [his pay] according to what he has done in the body, whether good or evil [considering what his purpose and motive have been, and what he has achieved, been busy with, and given himself and his attention to accomplishing. 2 Cor. 5:10

The sin of Adam and the resulting guilt explain our inability to be reconciled to God without being saved, but the Bible does not teach that we will answer or be held accountable for Adam’s sin. We will answer for our own sin. What about infants? Have those who died in infancy committed such sins in the body? No.

 

[Azriel]

R. A. Webb addressed this very point when he wrote:

If a dead infant were sent to hell on no other account than that of original sin, there would be a good reason to the Divine Mind for the judgment, because sin is a reality. But the child’s mind would be a perfect blank as to the reason of its suffering. Under such circumstances, it would know suffering but it would have no understanding of the reason for its suffering. It could not tell itself why it was so awfully smitten, and consequently, the whole meaning and significance of its sufferings, being to it a conscious enigma, the very essence of the penalty would be absent and justice would be disappointed, cheated of its validation.

The theology of Infant Salvation​

by Webb, R. A.​

 

[Aeliana]

Jesus said, “Those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. These are the things which defile a man” Matt. 15:18–20

A young child is incapable of committing these sinful deeds that defile the soul and are not subject to God’s punishment. They are not defiled.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Then there is no true holiness
no true love
no true heavenly marriage
no true judgement against sin.

Explain please.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Jesus said, “Those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. These are the things which defile a man” Matt. 15:18–20

That's true. But this has nothing to do with salvation only that sin comes from sinners.
The question posed in this OP ignores any doctrinal Scripture that will answer the question.
The response is an emotional response that just because they are babies they have a free ticket to heaven and Scripture which is supposed to direct what a Christian is to believe is ignored.

A young child is incapable of committing these sinful deeds that defile the soul and are not subject to God’s punishment. They are not defiled.

Here's something to consider: Death is the punishment for sin. And if a baby dies in the womb or soon after birth then their death is the punishment for sin.
This is an inescapable fact of life and bible.
Also consider that Christ died for the sin of God's elect but God's elect still dies.
Now this foundational truth of Scripture needs to be resolved not just make things up by leaning one one's own understanding in the vanity of their minds. Christians must consult Scripture for the answer.
There's nothing but commentary in the original post and no Scripture.
This leads me to ask if you are a born-again Christian. If you are then search the Scripture. The answer is there. If you're not a Christian, then no amount of wishful thinking will give you the answer.
That is, IF you are interested in what God has to say about it.