Why The Trinity is Wrong: Lord v LORD

[synergy]

There is no "hypostatic union" in Scripture.

There you go again, making premises you know I reject and pretending like I agree with them.

It's probably best for us to leave this line of inquiry since you seem to lack the intellectual command of entertaining an alternative though to the one you hold.

I can just as easily say the same thing about your "container/contained" idea. You are free to leave from these facts at any time:

• 1) Theophanies prove that the Word of God is a Person which means your container/contained idea is a 2 persons monstrocity, and
• 2) God the Father gave Christ full authority after Christ paid for our sins at the Cross and after He conquered Hades. These acts of Christ are simply not possible for a created human person, no matter how many times you repeat the word agency. Only God can save and Jesus did just that by virtue of the fact that He is the Divine Word of God Person. Also, the Bible does say that Jesus saves. Unitarianism has another massive problem here.

 

[Wrangler]

God the Father gave Christ full authority

There is only one God who we relate to as Father. There is no other God. There is no "God the Son" or "God the HS" in Scripture. And the reason is they are not God.

Said differently, Scripture does not say "the Father" - only God gave Christ his authority. You cannot deal with Scripture - or cite it - so you add to God's word to fit your doctrine.

 

[synergy]

There is only one God who we relate to as Father. There is no other God. There is no "God the Son" or "God the HS" in Scripture. And the reason is they are not God.
Said differently, Scripture does not say "the Father" - only God gave Christ his authority. You cannot deal with Scripture - or cite it - so you add to God's word to fit your doctrine.

First of all, you are directly contradicting John 1:1 that says the Word was God. He's the same Word who communicated as a Person to OT Prophets, as Theophanies. How's that two persons in one body "container/contained" (schizophrenic) idea working out for you?

Second of all, you totally skipped the fact that a mere mortal cannot conquer Hades. No way. Unitarianism is banking on a human to conquer Hades which no created human can possibly do. The Word of God, who has a Divine Nature, can do that when he assumed human form as Jesus, died, and conquered Hades through His Resurrection. All authority was given to Jesus AFTER He accomplished all that. Unitarianism has a massive problem here.

 

[Wrangler]

First of all, you are directly contradicting John 1:1 that says the Word was God.

Appeal to Diversion. What Scripture says "God the Father" gave Jesus all authority in heaven and Earth? What Scripture says who gave Jesus all authority in heaven and Earth?

 

[synergy]

Appeal to Diversion. What Scripture says "God the Father" gave Jesus all authority in heaven and Earth? What Scripture says who gave Jesus all authority in heaven and Earth?

You certainly are appealing to diversionary tactics. Here is what you are diverting from:

First of all, since the OT proves that the Word who communicated as a Person to OT Prophets, as Theophanies, how's that two persons in one body "container/contained" (schizophrenic) idea working out for you?

Second of all, you diverted from the fact that a mere mortal cannot conquer Hades. No way. Unitarianism is banking on a human to conquer Hades which no created human can possibly do. The Word of God, who has a Divine Nature, can do that when he assumed human form as Jesus, died, and conquered Hades through His Resurrection. That's why scripture says that Jesus saves. Unitarianism has a massive problem here.

To show you that I'm not the one diverting from questions, here is just a few of the many verses that say it is the Father Who has given all authority to the Son, Jesus Christ. These are all wonderful Trinitarian verses.

(John 3:35) The Father loves the Son and has given all things into His hand.

(John 5:22) For the Father judges no man, but has committed all judgment to the Son,

(John 17:1) Jesus spoke these words and lifted up His eyes to Heaven and said, Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son so that Your Son also may glorify You,
(John 17:2) even as You have given Him authority over all flesh so that He should give eternal life to all You have given Him.

(Col 1:2) to the saints and faithful brothers in Christ at Colosse. Grace to you, and peace from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
(Col 1:3) We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,
(Col 1:4) since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love you have to all the saints,
.
.
(Col 1:15) who is the image of the invisible God, the First-born of all creation.
(Col 1:16) For all things were created in Him, the things in the heavens, and the things on the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers, all things were created through Him and for Him.
(Col 1:17) And He is before all things, and by Him all things consist.
(Col 1:18) And He is the Head of the body, the church, who is the Beginning, the First-born from the dead, that He may be pre-eminent in all things.

(Php 2:10) that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of heavenly ones, and of earthly ones, and of ones under the earth;
(Php 2:11) and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

(Mat 28:17) And when they saw Him, they worshiped Him. But some doubted.
(Mat 28:18) And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, All authority is given to Me in Heaven and in earth.
(Mat 28:19) Therefore go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
(Mat 28:20) teaching them to observe all things, whatever I commanded you. And, behold, I am with you all the days until the end of the world. Amen.

 

[synergy]

JewishEncyclopedia.com

Complete contents the 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia.

www.jewishencyclopedia.com

See if this would be helpful brother-I have posted a ton of material on theophanies and video clips on the 2 powers and THE Angel of the Lord.

The Trinity in Ancient Jewish Books​

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Bookmark this clip brother-the reason why I don't share links is because most don't read or give it a listen-or bookmark rabbinical data.​

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Shalom Achi/brother​

Johann.​

Advice-listen to Jewish and Muslim debates and the sources they are using-I have done it for years and still doing it.​

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2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.​

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Do your best to shtel zich (apply yourself), to present yourself to Hashem as one approved, a po'el (workman) without bushah (shame), keeping on a derech yashar the Dvar HaEmes.​

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Hurry [yourself unadulterated to present] to God! a worker unashamed, cutting straight the word of truth​

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Don't be afraid to use secondary resources.​

The was very helpful.
I agree with the academics in the video that the Trinity can be seen in the OT for those who are objectively inclined.
Paul says that the Jews stumbled at faith.
Without their Temple for almost 2000 years, how do Jews offer sacrifices for their sins?

 

[Wrangler]

You certainly are appealing to diversionary tactics. Here is what you are diverting from:

Appeal to Diversion. What Scripture says "God the Father" gave Jesus all authority in heaven and Earth? What Scripture says who gave Jesus all authority in heaven and Earth?

Just answer my simple question. Thanks!

 

[synergy]

Just answer my simple question. Thanks!

I did and provided 6 sets of passages.

Can you do the same and answer my questions?

 

[Wrangler]

I did and provided 6 sets of passages.

Can you do the same and answer my questions?

What post cited the Scripture of who gave Jesus his authority? Sorry if I missed it. You claimed God the Father but did not cite what verse that is.

Then we’ll go into your question.

 

[synergy]

What post cited the Scripture of who gave Jesus his authority? Sorry if I missed it. You claimed God the Father but did not cite what verse that is.

Then we’ll go into your question.

Post 85. Start with.John 3:35 and tell me your interpretation of it. Then you can work down the other 5 sets of passages I cited in that post.

 

[Frank Russell]

Wow, I read through a debate thread and it didn't hurt.

Thought on the subject matter:

Humans believe what they do because they have experienced a parable of that in a meaningful way in their life.

Jesus prayed in John 17 that those who believe through the apostles be one just as the Father and He were one. This experience of the same kind of oneness given to those born again by the Holy Spirit provides the parable necessary for a human to understand and embrace the trinity.

There may be other reasons, but experiencing the theology is quite profound.

 

[Wrangler]

Appeal to Diversion. What Scripture says "God the Father" gave Jesus all authority in heaven and Earth? What Scripture says who gave Jesus all authority in heaven and Earth?

Post 85. Start with.John 3:35 and tell me your interpretation of it. Then you can work down the other 5 sets of passages I cited in that post.

To show you that I'm not the one diverting from questions, here is just a few of the many verses that say it is the Father Who has given all authority to the Son, Jesus Christ. These are all wonderful Trinitarian verses.

(John 3:35) The Father loves the Son and has given all things into His hand.

Synergy, we are talking about authority. What verse explains who gave Jesus authority? None of the verses you cite says anything about authority. If you cannot find such a verse, please just say so.

I can understand how you could consider John 3:35 all incompassing. However, we are not talking about "the Father" and "the Son" in this thread. We are talking about lower-case lord compared to capital-LORD. As I wrote, there are dozens of lords in Scripture and Jesus is just one of dozens.

 

[e v e]

Appeal to Diversion. What Scripture says "God the Father" gave Jesus all authority in heaven and Earth? What Scripture says who gave Jesus all authority in heaven and Earth?

it was given to Adam before he betrayed God
but adam that monster will die now.

 

[Keiw1]

A vast trinitarian conspiracy rests in confusing lower-case lord with capital LORD. This conspiracy is built on the Jewish text not using God's name YHWH, which is in Scripture some 7,000 times. They replaced the divine name with Adonai and trinitarians replaced that with the title, capital LORD.

Most Bible translations use capital LORD to refer to the God of Jesus, who is the only true God. By contrast, there are dozens of lowercase lords in Scripture. There are some verses who refer to YHWH rightly as lowercase lord. Even Biblegateway.com has participated in this conspiracy, which I wrote them about. When you take a verse from this website with capital LORD it pastes as lowercase lord. A famous example where both are used in one verse is Ps 110:1.

The LORD said to my Lord,
“Sit in the place of honor at my right hand

It pastes from Biblegateway.com as "the Lord said to my Lord." Try the experiment yourself.

In 2020, the verse of the year for me was Ps 82:1 (CEV), which reads.

When all the other gods
have come together,
the Lord God judges them

It is most significant that the existence of other REAL-lowercase gods was used by our lord to justify in John 10 calling himself the son of God by him invoking verse 6. In the CEV translation it reads

“I, the Most High God, say
that all of you are gods
and also my own children.

So, in this verse we have both lowercase and capital version of g-o-d. We must concede there are many gods, including Jesus, who are not the Most High God (capitalized). Let's end on definition

god​

1 of 2​

noun​

ˈgäd also ˈgȯd​

plural gods​

Synonyms of god​

1​

God : the supreme or ultimate reality: such as​

a​

: the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped (as in Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and Hinduism) as creator and ruler of the universe​

Throughout the patristic and medieval periods, Christian theologians taught that God created the universe …​

—Jame Schaefer​

… the Supreme Being or God, the personal form of the Ultimate Reality, is conceived by Hindus as having various aspects.​

—Sunita Pant Bansal​

b​

Christian Science : the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit : infinite Mind​

2​

or less commonly God : a being or object that is worshipped as having more than natural attributes and powers​

specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality​

Greek gods of love and war​

3​

: a person or thing of supreme value​

had photos of baseball's gods pinned to his bedroom wall​

4​

: a powerful ruler​

Lord and god are synonymous titles that mean dominion over an area in sense 4. This is different from sense 1, the Supreme Being, whose name is YHWH- not Jesus. While Jesus is a lord and a god, like many others, he is not our father, the capital LORD. Not once in Scripture is Jesus referred to even in modern English translations a capital LORD. And the simple reason is that he is not God in sense 1. For more information read the book, Jesus is Not God With a Capital "G": A Biblical Unitarian Christological Perspective

I hope this answers @praise_yeshua asked from

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/easily-dispelling-the-trinity.236/page-5#post-4958

The LORD said to my Lord is only found in altered versions of Gods bible. God wrote it like this-YHWH said to my Lord( Jesus)-- One should ask their teachers( religion)--Why they refuse to put Gods name back where he willed it because he wants it there. It was removed by satans will. So it shows 100% whose will ones religion backs.

 

[101G]

to all,
did God himself LIE, (GOD FORBID), in Isaiah 52:6 "Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I."
apparently God's people before didn't know God Name..... Hello, because he had not given it yet.

but, when did he speak for his people to know that it's him? answer, John 8:24 "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins."


ISAIAH "I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I."

John "for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins."

I AM HE.... how plain can one gst?

101G.

 

[Wrangler]

id God himself LIE, (GOD FORBID), in Isaiah 52:6 "Therefore my people shall know my name:

And his name is YHWH, not Jesus. See Ex 3:15. Isa 44:6. 45.5

Isaiah 45:5
Names of God Bible
5 I am Yahweh, and there is no other.
There is no other Elohim besides me.

 

[101G]

And his name is YHWH, not Jesus. See Ex 3:15. Isa 44:6. 45.5

Isaiah 45:5
Names of God Bible
5 I am Yahweh, and there is no other.
There is no other Elohim besides me.

LOL, LOL, how many times must we tell U YHWH/I AM is a VERB and not a Noun.... Oh Lord when will they learn?

101G.

 

[Keiw1]

And his name is YHWH, not Jesus. See Ex 3:15. Isa 44:6. 45.5

Isaiah 45:5
Names of God Bible
5 I am Yahweh, and there is no other.
There is no other Elohim besides me.

Notice he said-ME= singular, not we, plural. Nice post.

 

[101G]

Notice he said-ME= singular, not we, plural. Nice post.

Correct, but is ME plural? listen,Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he." the LORD is the First, and "WITH" the Last. is this two persons? he said I, I, I, I, am he. I and he are single designations. but now, this same single LORD is First ......... and "Also" this same Single LORD is Last. Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." so, can you tell us HOW the Single LORD is the First and "ALSO" the Last? remember he is a "I", a single person, who is First/Father, and also the Last/Son. remember "ALSO" means in addition; too. so how is a single Person the First/Father, and the Last/Son?

101G.

 

[Keiw1]

Correct, but is ME plural? listen,Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he." the LORD is the First, and "WITH" the Last. is this two persons? he said I, I, I, I, am he. I and he are single designations. but now, this same single LORD is First ......... and "Also" this same Single LORD is Last. Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." so, can you tell us HOW the Single LORD is the First and "ALSO" the Last? remember he is a "I", a single person, who is First/Father, and also the Last/Son. remember "ALSO" means in addition; too. so how is a single Person the First/Father, and the Last/Son?

101G.

I believe the generations are being called the last ones.