I'm talking about the Divine level that Jesus clearly proclaims of himself when He called himself "I Am!", and when He allowed and approved when Thomas called Him "my God!".
Why The Trinity is Wrong: Definition
- Thread starter Wrangler
- Start date
Wrangler
Well-known member
It's awesome how trinitarians can use words so elastically. "Possessing 'God nature'" does not make one God.
Regarding them being one essence, again, completely wrong. God is not a man and Jesus is a man. These are the exact opposite of the having the same essence and nature.
Jesus possesses both God nature and human nature. Both the Father and the Holy Spirit possess God nature but not human nature.
GeneZ
Well-known member
Interesting to ponder...
Jesus possesses a human nature in union with God.
Humans are "souls."
The Holy Spirit?
Possesses an angel nature in union with God.
Angels are "spirits."
Hence.... Holy Spirit."
Wrangler
Well-known member
So you claim. However, God cannot possess non-God nature. Therefore, Jesus cannot be God.
civic
Well-known member
I never mentioned any Trinity verse you are assuming I did. I was talking about 1 Cor 8:6 where both the Father and Son are responsible for creation as the One Lord, One God. It’s demonstrating equality not inequality.
The Uncreated Word of God became flesh and dwelt among us. (John 1:3,14). Two natures in one person, Jesus. Between you and the Bible, I trust the Bible, sorry.
GeneZ
Well-known member
Wrangler
Well-known member
John 1:14 does not say uncreated, no matter how much you want it to be true.
Wrangler
Well-known member
Eisegesis. Total and complete eisegesis.
There is only one God, YHWH. Scripture says this over and over again. And there is no equality with him as Jesus admits. God, YHWH, the Father is the only Creator.
- I am going to the Father, who is greater than I am. John 14:28
- God is the head of Christ. 1 COR 11:3
I wonder if trinitarians can recognize hierarchy, e.g., for us Americans, there is one President, one Governor and one Mayor. It does not mean they are the same Being.
Even if your eisegesis were correct, it would still destroy the trinity. For 2 a trinity does not make.
civic
Well-known member
Actually you just demonstrated eisegesis by avoiding the text we are discussing, 1 Cor 8:6. That’s what we are discussing.
Wrangler
Well-known member
Repeating your foolishness does not make it true. I take it you will not address the logical problem you have with your contradictory claim.
Do you realize that God cannot posses non-God nature? So, given that Jesus has (a) human nature proves he cannot be God.
Wrangler
Well-known member
Not at all. Eisegesis is you taking 1 COR 8:6, where it says there is one God, the Father, to mean there are 2 gods who co-created.
I only cited other Scripture to show how your eisegesis is wrong. If I did not cite other Scripture, you or someone else would say I don't even cite Scripture to support my position.
Now, how about you either admit the vast amount of Scripture goes against trinitarianism OR explain who the verses I sighted do not support what I said?
GeneZ
Well-known member
Ever seen a scene where someone acts as a distraction while others get to slip away?
Some people are here to be a distraction to distract us away from getting closer and closer to gaining a deeper and better understanding of truth.
That is why it does not matter to them even if you even prove them wrong. They do not want truth. They want you not to have truth.
They will continue in error in spite of being shown their wrong, because that creates frustration, and that serves as an even greater distraction than before.
Such wayward souls want to discourage someone from doing the work needed to better clarify, to only have it driven out of sight by a distraction that will continue until the clarification has been forgotten about....
We wrestle not against flesh and blood.
civic
Well-known member
I don’t think it’s a matter of them not wanting the truth. They believe with sincerity that have the truth .
Wrangler
Well-known member
As do you believe with sincerity that you have the truth. The difference is the trinity is not in the Bible.
What is in the Bible over and over again is that there is one (true) God whose name is YHWH. Jesus has a God (YHWH). According to Jesus, his God is the only true God. He taught us to pray to his God, not to him or the trinity. This is good enough for me. Why is it not good enough for you?
GeneZ
Well-known member
As long as you believe that? Russia and China sincerely want world peace....
These types will continue to disrupt the flow of growth for those who came here to grow in grace and truth.
Such as these get kicked out of churches, or at least totally ignored, when a congregation agrees with Scripture to avoid such people.
The best we can do with the compromise we have here? By allowing them to keep blocking?
Is to provide a Bible lesson in hopes someone wanting truth will benefit.
But, in that case? It must be kept simple and basic.
If you want to dare to venture into deeper understanding beyond the basic?
Their kind are here to block and distract from that happening.
Over in Carm they have become infested with a few of them.
They always seek to secure a stronghold in Christian forums.
Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time.
After that, have nothing to do with him. You may be sure that
such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned. Titus 3:10
I see why... He has only been warned once.
...... But he is really so sincere.... keep him around. Don't obey the Word. Sarcasm intended.
civic
Well-known member
But the forum is not a church that’s the difference. We are here to defend what we believe but like Peter says with gentleness and patience in 1 Peter 3:15. And Paul correcting others in a way the gives grace to those who hear. Ephesians 4:29-30As long as you believe that? Russia and China sincerely want world peace....
These types will continue to disrupt the flow of growth for those who came here to grow in grace and truth.
Such as these get kicked out of churches, or at least totally ignored, when a congregation agrees with Scripture to avoid such people.
The best we can do with the compromise we have here? By allowing them to keep blocking?
Is to provide a Bible lesson in hopes someone wanting truth will benefit.
But, in that case? It must be kept simple and basic.
If you want to dare to venture into deeper understanding beyond the basic?
Their kind are here to block and distract from that happening.
Over in Carm they have become infested with a few of them.
They always seek to secure a stronghold in Christian forums.
Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time.
After that, have nothing to do with him. You may be sure that
such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned. Titus 3:10
I see why... He has only been warned once.
Sarcasm intended.
GeneZ
Well-known member
People who deny the Trinity fail to see that Jesus came to earth in a temporary lowered position.
He spoke from his experience as a man.
He had to make himself become no better than a man in his power.
But, as a sinless man that God gave freely of His Grace.
After all? Could he die in our place if he were something other than what we are?
If He remained as God in power as to pioneer the way to overcome temptations faced by man?
Could he by the grace of God invent the ways we need as men to overcome the world if he were not a man?
Could he test and prove them viable of he were something other than a man in his power?
That is why and how he became the author and finisher of our faith.
He spoke from his experience as a man.
He had to make himself become no better than a man in his power.
But, as a sinless man that God gave freely of His Grace.
After all? Could he die in our place if he were something other than what we are?
If He remained as God in power as to pioneer the way to overcome temptations faced by man?
Could he by the grace of God invent the ways we need as men to overcome the world if he were not a man?
Could he test and prove them viable of he were something other than a man in his power?
That is why and how he became the author and finisher of our faith.
