Why I don’t believe or accept the trinity.

[Runningman]

The problem is that you are challenging basic Christian doctrine. If you want to challenge that, get a good book on the Trinity argument and provide your clever insights to challenge scripture.

It’s quite telling that you didn’t just recommend the Bible because the trinity doesn’t exist in it. You told me to get a good book on the trinity. Yes your trinity is found in “good books” and “creeds” and you have the audacity to call it “basic Christian doctrine.” Incredible.

 

[DavidTree]

It’s quite telling that you didn’t just recommend the Bible because the trinity doesn’t exist in it. You told me to get a good book on the trinity. Yes your trinity is found in “good books” and “creeds” and you have the audacity to call it “basic Christian doctrine.” Incredible.

Who are these passages speaking of?

Before Me there was no God formed,
Nor shall there be after Me.
I, even I, am the Lord,
And besides Me there is no savior

I have declared and saved,
I have proclaimed,
And there was no foreign god among you;
Therefore you are My witnesses,”
Says the Lord, “that I am God.
Indeed before the day was, I am He;

 

[DavidTree]

Notice it says “at the name” of Jesus ever knee bows but not to Jesus every knee bows. Keep reading, who is the only one getting glory and the only one called God in Philippians 2? Yes, the only one is the Father. Any more questions?

Who are these passages speaking of?

Before Me there was no God formed,
Nor shall there be after Me.
I, even I, am the Lord,
And besides Me there is no savior

I have declared and saved,
I have proclaimed,
And there was no foreign god among you;
Therefore you are My witnesses,”
Says the Lord, “that I am God.
Indeed before the day was, I am He;

 

[DavidTree]

Trinitarianism is idolatry because it makes a man into your god. God is an invisible spirit (1 Timothy 1:17) and Jesus is a visible image (Colossians 1:15) who is made from the same material Adam was. We’re all human, not God, but Jesus said his God and his brothers’ God is the Father in John 20:17. Why can’t you see that Jesus has a God just like others do? God having a God isn’t scripture, sorry you got the wrong idea and you’re perpetuating sin. It’s pardonable if you repent.

Who are these passages speaking of?

Before Me there was no God formed,
Nor shall there be after Me.
I, even I, am the Lord,
And besides Me there is no savior

I have declared and saved,
I have proclaimed,
And there was no foreign god among you;
Therefore you are My witnesses,”
Says the Lord, “that I am God.
Indeed before the day was, I am He;

 

[Runningman]

Everything you are saying is straight from jw/watchtower.

Unitarians, based on your posts, believe the same lies as jw/watchtower!!!

Before Me there was no God formed,
Nor shall there be after Me.
I, even I, am the Lord,
And besides Me there is no Savior

I have declared and saved,
I have proclaimed,
And there was no foreign god among you;
Therefore you are My witnesses,”
Says the Lord, “that I am God.
Indeed before the day was, I am He;

Who are these passages speaking of?

Exactly. Why do you think Jesus’ real name is Yeshua? It means YHWH saves or YHWH is salvation. They changed his names to Jesus because that’s a problem for the Trinity. Read John 3:16,17. Who was sent by God so that God could save the world through him?

 

[mikesw]

It’s quite telling that you didn’t just recommend the Bible because the trinity doesn’t exist in it. You told me to get a good book on the trinity. Yes your trinity is found in “good books” and “creeds” and you have the audacity to call it “basic Christian doctrine.” Incredible.

You do not sound qualified to discuss theological issues with your rejection of wise counsel. I'm just saying if that if you want to create a new doctrine out of a Jeffersonian Bible, you have quite a big task making an argument. You do not have verses that were lacking by all the Christians before you. Honestly, it seems you seem to fall into simplistic concepts based on scriptures that speak of the humanity of Christ while disregarding every passage that speaks of the divinity of Christ in the Godhead. How is your great, by the way?

 

[DavidTree]

Exactly. Why do you think Jesus’ real name is Yeshua? It means YHWH saves or YHWH is salvation. They changed his names to Jesus because that’s a problem for the Trinity. Read John 3:16,17. Who was sent by God so that God could save the world through him?

You did not answer the question!

Let's try again and answer in TRUTH ONLY = Matthew 5:37

JESUS says but let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.


Who are these passages speaking of?

Before Me there was no God formed,
Nor shall there be after Me.
I, even I, am the Lord,
And besides Me there is no savior

I have declared and saved,
I have proclaimed,
And there was no foreign god among you;
Therefore you are My witnesses,”
Says the Lord, “that I am God.
Indeed before the day was, I am He;

 

[DavidTree]

@Runningman

Good Night

 

[Runningman]

You did not answer the question!

Let's try again and answer in TRUTH ONLY = Matthew 5:37

JESUS says but let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.
Who are these passages speaking of?

Before Me there was no God formed,
Nor shall there be after Me.
I, even I, am the Lord,
And besides Me there is no savior

I have declared and saved,
I have proclaimed,
And there was no foreign god among you;
Therefore you are My witnesses,”
Says the Lord, “that I am God.
Indeed before the day was, I am He;

Double standard much? You’re the one talking more than I am and you think you can tell me to just say yes or no. Quite laughable.

YHWH is the Father. Not Jesus. God saves through Jesus, not the other way around. Jesus was sent to preach the good news from God. He got it from God my friend. He was here to proclaim YHWH’s good news, the new covenant

Luke 4
17the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. Unrolling it, He found the place where it was written:

18“The Spirit of the Lord is on Me, because He has anointed Me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent Me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind,
to release the oppressed,
19to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”

20Then He rolled up the scroll, returned it to the attendant, and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fixed on Him, 21and He began by saying, “Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”

 

[DavidTree]

Double standard much? You’re the one talking more than I am and you think you can tell me to just say yes or no. Quite laughable.

YHWH is the Father. Not Jesus. God saves through Jesus, not the other way around. Jesus was sent to preach the good news from God. He got it from God my friend. He was here to proclaim YHWH’s good news, the new covenant

Luke 4
17the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. Unrolling it, He found the place where it was written:

18“The Spirit of the Lord is on Me, because He has anointed Me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent Me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind,
to release the oppressed,
19to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”

20Then He rolled up the scroll, returned it to the attendant, and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fixed on Him, 21and He began by saying, “Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”

@Runningman is Running from the Truth instead of towards HIM.

JESUS says but let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.
YES these speak of God
YES these speak of the WORD that was God and HE became flesh and dwelt among us = the SAVIOR

Who do men say that IAM in these passages @Runningman

Before Me there was no God formed,
Nor shall there be after Me.
I, even I, am the Lord,
And besides Me there is no savior

I have declared and saved,
I have proclaimed,
And there was no foreign god among you;
Therefore you are My witnesses,”
Says the Lord, “that I am God.
Indeed before the day was, I am He;

 

[MTMattie]

Trinitarianism is idolatry because it makes a man into your god. God is an invisible spirit (1 Timothy 1:17) and Jesus is a visible image (Colossians 1:15) who is made from the same material Adam was. We’re all human, not God, but Jesus said his God and his brothers’ God is the Father in John 20:17. Why can’t you see that Jesus has a God just like others do? God having a God isn’t scripture, sorry you got the wrong idea and you’re perpetuating sin. It’s pardonable if you repent.

Technically speaking.... if what you believe to be true............................ then you have no clue about what the Trinity is and who comprises the Godhead.

You know the WORD, from Genesis time.... became Jesus born from the woman. DO YOU NOT?

Is it possible that you do not know that the WORD, from Genesis time... was before

Are you calling Jesus a liar for saying " Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” John 8:58??????????????/

What did God YHWH who eventually became God the Father ONLY AFTER THE BIRTH OF JUSUS call Himself?
“I AM WHO I AM … tell them I AM has sent me to you” (Exodus 3:14)

So who lied? Jesus who said " before Abraham was born, I am." or YHWH who said I AM WHO I AM … tell them I AM has sent me to you.

According to you one of them had to....

But most importantly why, under all that is Holy, would you not want to believe with in your very soul and spirit all the mysteries
that abound regarding every nuance of the one we worship?

 

[Runningman]

@Runningman is Running from the Truth instead of towards HIM.

JESUS says but let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.
YES these speak of God
YES these speak of the WORD that was God and HE became flesh and dwelt among us = the SAVIOR

Who do men say that IAM in these passages @Runningman

Before Me there was no God formed,
Nor shall there be after Me.
I, even I, am the Lord,
And besides Me there is no savior

I have declared and saved,
I have proclaimed,
And there was no foreign god among you;
Therefore you are My witnesses,”
Says the Lord, “that I am God.
Indeed before the day was, I am He;

Already answered this question. You just keep copying and pasting the same thing at this point David.

 

[Runningman]

You do not sound qualified to discuss theological issues with your rejection of wise counsel.

Who is the wise counsel you're referring to? You?

I'm just saying if that if you want to create a new doctrine out of a Jeffersonian Bible, you have quite a big task making an argument.

Never read the Jeffersonian Bible.

You do not have verses that were lacking by all the Christians before you.

Indeed.

Honestly, it seems you seem to fall into simplistic concepts based on scriptures that speak of the humanity of Christ while disregarding every passage that speaks of the divinity of Christ in the Godhead. How is your great, by the way?

Please show the verses that speak of Christ in the Godhead.

 

[Runningman]

Technically speaking.... if what you believe to be true............................ then you have no clue about what the Trinity is and who comprises the Godhead.

You know the WORD, from Genesis time.... became Jesus born from the woman. DO YOU NOT?

Is it possible that you do not know that the WORD, from Genesis time... was before

Are you calling Jesus a liar for saying " Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” John 8:58??????????????/

What did God YHWH who eventually became God the Father ONLY AFTER THE BIRTH OF JUSUS call Himself?
“I AM WHO I AM … tell them I AM has sent me to you” (Exodus 3:14)

So who lied? Jesus who said " before Abraham was born, I am." or YHWH who said I AM WHO I AM … tell them I AM has sent me to you.

According to you one of them had to....

But most importantly why, under all that is Holy, would you not want to believe with in your very soul and spirit all the mysteries
that abound regarding every nuance of the one we worship?

Think of it like this. Acts 3:13 says Jesus is the son or servant of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob but Exodus 3:14-15 says the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the I AM and YHWH. So the I AM is YHWH, the Father, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Jesus is never called such names and titles.

While it's true that some translations claim that Jesus randomly said " I am" at the end of a sentence, it isn't the same thing God said in Exodus 3:14-15 nor does the translation of abruptly placing "I am" at the end of a sentence make much sense grammatically.

Think of it this way. Can you explain why the words for "I am" which are ego eimi in Greek are never translated like that in the rest of the New Testament?

 

[Runningman]

You did not answer the question!

Let's try again and answer in TRUTH ONLY = Matthew 5:37

JESUS says but let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.


Who are these passages speaking of?

Before Me there was no God formed,
Nor shall there be after Me.
I, even I, am the Lord,
And besides Me there is no savior

I have declared and saved,
I have proclaimed,
And there was no foreign god among you;
Therefore you are My witnesses,”
Says the Lord, “that I am God.
Indeed before the day was, I am He;

Exactly. Why do you think Jesus’ real name is Yeshua? It means YHWH saves or YHWH is salvation. They changed his names to Jesus because that’s a problem for the Trinity. Read John 3:16,17. Who was sent by God so that God could save the world through him?

 

[DavidTree]

Already answered this question. You just keep copying and pasting the same thing at this point David.

i keep posting the TRUTH to shine the LIGHT for you to SEE with!

Unitarianism and the jw/watchtower keep saying that the WORD was "a god".
Whereas the Scripture, which cannot be broken(wrong) Declares there is only One God!!!

Before Me there was no God formed,
Nor shall there be after Me.
I, even I, am the Lord,
And besides Me there is no Savior

 

[DavidTree]

Exactly. Why do you think Jesus’ real name is Yeshua? It means YHWH saves or YHWH is salvation. They changed his names to Jesus because that’s a problem for the Trinity. Read John 3:16,17. Who was sent by God so that God could save the world through him?

the Hebrew word for God is Elohim = PLURAL

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God..."

In the beginning
בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית (bə·rê·šîṯ)
Preposition-b | Noun - feminine singular
Strong's Hebrew 7225: 1) first, beginning, best, chief 1a) beginning 1b) first 1c) chief 1d) choice part

God
אֱלֹהִ֑ים (’ĕ·lō·hîm)
Noun - masculine plural
Strong's Hebrew 430: 1) (plural) 1a) rulers, judges 1b) divine ones 1c) angels 1d) gods 2) (plural intensive-singular meaning) 2a) god, goddess 2b) godlike one 2c) works or special possessions of God 2d) the (true) God 2e) God


YHWH is the WORD that was God and came to earth as a man, declared to be the Son of God, thereby making Him EQUAL with His FATHER(GOD) = Gospel of John

the Holy Spirit is also GOD = Genesis, Exodus, Gospel of John and Acts

 

[DavidTree]

@Runningman

i am praying for you so that you can KNOW the Only True God and Jesus Christ whom HE has sent

LOOK, here is a new Scripture for you:

Look to Me, and be saved,
All you ends of the earth!
For I am God, and there is no other.
I have sworn by Myself;
The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness,
And shall not return,
That to Me every knee shall bow,
Every tongue shall take an oath.

Who does this passage speak of?

 

[MTMattie]

It’s quite telling that you didn’t just recommend the Bible because the trinity doesn’t exist in it. You told me to get a good book on the trinity. Yes your trinity is found in “good books” and “creeds” and you have the audacity to call it “basic Christian doctrine.” Incredible.

Well, I see the trinity throughout the bible. Sorry you are so blinded and have so little faith.

How is it you can believe that Jesus was born as he was.

There is nothing in the bible that says how it happened other then the suggestion that the Holy Spirit came upon the woman.

And a couple of dreams that Joseph had and an alleged vision or two.

Very weak proof...... Yet you have placed your very soul into the hands of something that really is specifically not talked about.

Think of it like this. Acts 3:13 says Jesus is the son or servant of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob but Exodus 3:14-15 says the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the I AM and YHWH. So the I AM is YHWH, the Father, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Jesus is never called such names and titles.

While it's true that some translations claim that Jesus randomly said " I am" at the end of a sentence, it isn't the same thing God said in Exodus 3:14-15 nor does the translation of abruptly placing "I am" at the end of a sentence make much sense grammatically.

Think of it this way. Can you explain why the words for "I am" which are ego eimi in Greek are never translated like that in the rest of the New Testament?

Impossible to explain what others have failed to do so to you.

Lets look at the term Godhead.

The word "Godhead" can be found on three occasions in the King James Version of the Bible with the meaning of Deity or Divinity.

For what specific reason would there need to be such a term? If YHWH is the one and only one there.... it makes no sense.

YES... God is also one Being. For example, the first verse of the Bible tells us that "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth" (Genesis 1:1, emphasis added). Deuteronomy 6:4 specifically teaches, "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." John 5:44 refers to God as "the only God." First Timothy 2:5 explicitly states, "there is one God."

BUT...Each Person~Father, Son, and Spirit~is called God yet each Person is also seen individually. Together, the three Persons as one God are referred to as the Godhead. While this teaching transcends our full human understanding, it reflects the teachings of Scripture and serves as one of the distinctive features of biblical Christianity.

And while you are itching to dispell these things..... pay attention.

The Word came into human existence through Mary giving birth to Jesus.

NO ONE waved a magic wand over her belly to get her pregnant..... UNLESS we prove the bible to be wrong....

Mary was told she would bear a child and she asked...

Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I am a virgin?”

She was told... see Luke 1

The angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.

So... this in itself is self explanatory.....

The Holy Spirit had the power of the Most High (God) to perform what needed to be done.

At miinimum there are two in the Godhead....

Otherwise... The Holy Spirit is Jesus' father not God the Father..... In that case Jesus would be God's adopted son.

 

[Runningman]

the Hebrew word for God is Elohim = PLURAL

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God..."

In the beginning
בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית (bə·rê·šîṯ)
Preposition-b | Noun - feminine singular
Strong's Hebrew 7225: 1) first, beginning, best, chief 1a) beginning 1b) first 1c) chief 1d) choice part

God
אֱלֹהִ֑ים (’ĕ·lō·hîm)
Noun - masculine plural
Strong's Hebrew 430: 1) (plural) 1a) rulers, judges 1b) divine ones 1c) angels 1d) gods 2) (plural intensive-singular meaning) 2a) god, goddess 2b) godlike one 2c) works or special possessions of God 2d) the (true) God 2e) God


YHWH is the WORD that was God and came to earth as a man, declared to be the Son of God, thereby making Him EQUAL with His FATHER(GOD) = Gospel of John

the Holy Spirit is also GOD = Genesis, Exodus, Gospel of John and Acts

You got the wrong idea about elohim. Jesus, in John 10, said that those to whom the word of God came are elohim because they are all gods. They are all elohim, including Jesus. You are making the false conclusion that elohim being a plural word refers to numerical quantity which is also false. Elohim refers to singular beings like the people in the below verses, Jesus, and even false gods in some OT passages.

John 10
34Jesus replied, “Is it not written in your Law: ‘I have said you are gods’? 35If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken—

Psalm 82
6I have said, ‘You are gods;
you are all sons of the Most High.’