Why I don’t believe or accept the trinity.

[Runningman]

i keep posting the TRUTH to shine the LIGHT for you to SEE with!

Unitarianism and the jw/watchtower keep saying that the WORD was "a god".
Whereas the Scripture, which cannot be broken(wrong) Declares there is only One God!!!

Before Me there was no God formed,
Nor shall there be after Me.
I, even I, am the Lord,
And besides Me there is no Savior

Then what's your point?

 

[MTMattie]

Exactly. Why do you think Jesus’ real name is Yeshua? It means YHWH saves or YHWH is salvation. They changed his names to Jesus because that’s a problem for the Trinity. Read John 3:16,17. Who was sent by God so that God could save the world through him?

Where in the world did you come up with that? "They changed his names to Jesus because that’s a problem for the Trinity."

And who changed it?

No problem for me. It is not in the Father's name nor our faith in Him that saves us.....

Everyone in the trinity has an appointed job.

 

[Runningman]

@Runningman

i am praying for you so that you can KNOW the Only True God and Jesus Christ whom HE has sent

LOOK, here is a new Scripture for you:

Look to Me, and be saved,
All you ends of the earth!
For I am God, and there is no other.
I have sworn by Myself;
The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness,
And shall not return,
That to Me every knee shall bow,
Every tongue shall take an oath.

Who does this passage speak of?

I already answered this question sir. Why do you keep pasting it repeatedly. Read my comments. I am trying to have a discussion with you, but for almost an entire page you are posting the same things.

 

[Runningman]

View attachment 809

Where in the world did you come up with that? "They changed his names to Jesus because that’s a problem for the Trinity."

And who changed it?

No problem for me. It is not in the Father's name nor our faith in Him that saves us.....

Everyone in the trinity has an appointed job.

Jesus' name pointing to someone else aside from himself for salvation is a problem for the trinity.

 

[DavidTree]

I already answered this question sir. Why do you keep pasting it repeatedly. Read my comments. I am trying to have a discussion with you, but for almost an entire page you are posting the same things.

This is a NEW Scripture for you = not the same as yesterdays

Look AGAIN

Look to Me, and be saved,
All you ends of the earth!
For I am God, and there is no other.
I have sworn by Myself;
The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness,
And shall not return,
That to Me every knee shall bow,
Every tongue shall take an oath.

To Whom do we bow our knee to?

JESUS or the FATHER?

 

[civic]

1 John 1:1-2 calls the Word a thing. Acts 4:24-27 also demonstrates John and Peter didn’t believe Jesus is God. They prayed to God and called Jesus His servant.

And no I’m not a jw.

No it does not call the word an it- you cannot have fellowship with an it only a person. The Context is not your friend.

next fallacy

 

[Runningman]

This is a NEW Scripture for you = not the same as yesterdays

Look AGAIN

Look to Me, and be saved,
All you ends of the earth!
For I am God, and there is no other.
I have sworn by Myself;
The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness,
And shall not return,
That to Me every knee shall bow,
Every tongue shall take an oath.

To Whom do we bow our knee to?

JESUS or the FATHER?

The Father, YHWH. I already said this to you. Jesus is never bowed to in heaven.

 

[Runningman]

No it does not call the word an it- you cannot have fellowship with an it only a person. The Context is not your friend.

next fallacy

1 John 1:1-2 is still there calling the word and it. I didn't write it, but I am not going to ignore it either. I suggest you take it up with God and/or the translators.

 

[civic]

1 John 1:1-2 is still there calling the word and it. I didn't write it, but I am not going to ignore it either. I suggest you take it up with God and/or the translators.

no the word " it " is not in the original text it’s a bad translation. Here are some good translations

New King James Version
the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us—

New American Standard Bible
and the life was revealed, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was revealed to us—

NASB 1995
and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us—


English Revised Version
(and the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare unto you the life, the eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us

NASB 1977
and the life was manifested, and we have seen and bear witness and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us—

Berean Literal Bible
and the life was made manifest, and we have seen and bear witness, and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was revealed to us


American Standard Version
(and the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare unto you the life, the eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us);

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And The Life was revealed and we perceived and we testify and we proclaim to you the Life Eternal, that which was with The Father and was revealed to us

Literal Standard Version
and the Life appeared, and we have seen, and testify, and declare to you the continuous Life, which was with the Father, and was revealed to us—

NET Bible
and the life was revealed, and we have seen and testify and announce to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was revealed to us).

Weymouth New Testament
the Life was manifested, and we have seen and bear witness, and we declare unto you the Life of the Ages which was with the Father and was manifested to us--

World English Bible
(and the life was revealed, and we have seen, and testify, and declare to you the life, the eternal life, which was with the Father, and was revealed to us);

Young's Literal Translation
and the Life was manifested, and we have seen, and do testify, and declare to you the Life, the age-during, which was with the Father, and was manifested to us

Next fallacy

 

[DavidTree]

The Father, YHWH. I already said this to you. Jesus is never bowed to in heaven.

Everyone bows down to the FATHER and LAMB who STANDS in the very MIDDLE of the THRONE

And I looked, [c]and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth. 7Then He came and took the scroll out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne.

Worthy Is the Lamb​

8Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9And they sang a new song, saying:

“You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
10And have made [d]us kings[e] and priests to our God;
And [f]we shall reign on the earth.”
11Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, the living creatures, and the elders; and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands, 12saying with a loud voice:

“Worthy is the Lamb who was slain
To receive power and riches and wisdom,
And strength and honor and glory and blessing!”
13And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying:

“Blessing and honor and glory and power
Be to Him who sits on the throne,
And to the Lamb, forever and [g]ever!”
14Then the four living creatures said, “Amen!” And the [h]twenty-four elders fell down and worshiped https://biblehub.com/nkjv/revelation/5.htm#footnotesHim who lives forever and ever.

 

[civic]

Everyone bows down to the FATHER and LAMB who STANDS in the very MIDDLE of the THRONE

And I looked, [c]and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth. 7Then He came and took the scroll out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne.

Worthy Is the Lamb​

8Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9And they sang a new song, saying:

“You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
10And have made [d]us kings[e] and priests to our God;
And [f]we shall reign on the earth.”
11Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, the living creatures, and the elders; and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands, 12saying with a loud voice:

“Worthy is the Lamb who was slain
To receive power and riches and wisdom,
And strength and honor and glory and blessing!”
13And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying:

“Blessing and honor and glory and power
Be to Him who sits on the throne,
And to the Lamb, forever and [g]ever!”
14Then the four living creatures said, “Amen!” And the [h]twenty-four elders fell down and worshiped https://biblehub.com/nkjv/revelation/5.htm#footnotesHim who lives forever and ever.

Amen

 

[MTMattie]

Jesus' name pointing to someone else aside from himself for salvation is a problem for the trinity

SHEESH.

DEFLECTION AT ITS BEST.... YOU DID NOT ANSWER MY QUESTION see post 682

According to you here is another falsehood in the bible.... Mathew
“She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”

But not really.... here is the reason....

This Is What Jesus' Friends And Family Actually Called Him — And No, It Wasn't Jesus

The "J" sound in Jesus' name does not exist in Hebrew or Aramaic, which is evidence in itself that Jesus was called something entirely different.

allthatsinteresting.com

How “Yeshua,” The Real Name Of Jesus, Became Lost In Translation​

What Was Jesus’ Real Name? ‘Yeshua’ And The Story Behind It​

By Gina Dimuro | Edited By Jaclyn Anglis
Published November 17, 2023
Updated August 28, 2024

Though the world now knows the Christian Messiah as Jesus, his real name in the original Hebrew was Yeshoshua or Yeshua, meaning "salvation."​

While millions around the world believe that Jesus of Nazareth is the Son of God, he was also a man who once walked the deserts of Judea in the first century C.E. And when he was actually alive, he was called by a different name than the one we all know today. In fact, Jesus’ real name is likely completely unfamiliar to many of his followers to this day.

The name Jesus is merely an English adaptation of a German transliteration of a Latin transliteration of a Greek transliteration of an originally Hebrew name: Yeshua. And the history of how Jesus’ real name evolved into the form that the world knows today is complex, nuanced, and somewhat shrouded in mystery.

As is the case with what Jesus looked like or even how tall he was, many of the basic facts about the historical Jesus, the flesh-and-blood man himself, have remained murky and little-known over the centuries. This is certainly true of Jesus’ real name in its original form.

For starters, Jesus and his followers were all Jewish and so they had Hebrew names — although they would likely have spoken Aramaic. The “J” sound used to pronounce Jesus’ name in English does not exist in Hebrew or Aramaic, which is strong evidence that Jesus was called something different by his contemporaries.

Most scholars, therefore, believe that Jesus’ real name was actually “Yeshua,” a fairly common Jewish name around the time Jesus was alive. Archaeologists have actually found the name carved into 71 burial caves in Israel, dating from the time the historical Jesus of Nazareth would have been alive. This leads to the question of why, if there were evidently so many men named “Yeshua” running around at the time, the name “Jesus” was used for the Messiah.

Because not every language shares the same sounds, people have historically adopted their names so as to be able to pronounce them in various languages. Even in modern languages, there are differences in the pronunciation of Jesus. In English, the name is pronounced with a hard “J,” while in Spanish, even though the spelling is the same, the name is pronounced with what would be an “H” in English.

It is precisely this type of transliteration that has caused “Yeshua” to evolve into the modern “Jesus.” The New Testament was originally written in Greek, which not only uses an entirely different alphabet than Hebrew but also lacks the “sh” sound found in “Yeshua.”

The New Testament authors decided to use the Greek “s” sound in place of the “sh” in Yeshua and then added a final “s” to the end of the name to make it masculine in the language. When, in turn, the Bible was translated into Latin from the original Greek, the translators rendered Jesus’ name as “Iesus.”

 

[DavidTree]

The Father, YHWH. I already said this to you. Jesus is never bowed to in heaven.

JESUS says you are to Look to Him to be Saved - Gospel of John

Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.

 

[DavidTree]

Amen

Good Morning my Brother in Christ

Here is a 'lol' for you.

On another forum i was 'scolded' because i said "Good Morning" to another Brother in Christ.

So i said 'Good Morning' to that person who scolded me and then gave him this scripture:

"Greet the holy brethren with a kiss" - 1 Thessalonians 5:26

 

[DavidTree]

@Runningman

JESUS says to you: "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life."

Same as Isaiah said by the Holy Spirit: "Look to ME and be saved"

Same as JESUS says:
For it is My Father’s will that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life,
and I will raise him up at the last day.”

 

[MTMattie]

The Father, YHWH. I already said this to you. Jesus is never bowed to in heaven.

And to know this you were there when?

 

[civic]

Good Morning my Brother in Christ

Here is a 'lol' for you.

On another forum i was 'scolded' because i said "Good Morning" to another Brother in Christ.

So i said 'Good Morning' to that person who scolded me and then gave him this scripture:

"Greet the holy brethren with a kiss" - 1 Thessalonians 5:26

that's terrible

 

[Runningman]

Everyone bows down to the FATHER and LAMB who STANDS in the very MIDDLE of the THRONE

And I looked, [c]and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth. 7Then He came and took the scroll out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne.

Worthy Is the Lamb​

8Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9And they sang a new song, saying:

“You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
10And have made [d]us kings[e] and priests to our God;
And [f]we shall reign on the earth.”
11Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, the living creatures, and the elders; and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands, 12saying with a loud voice:

“Worthy is the Lamb who was slain
To receive power and riches and wisdom,
And strength and honor and glory and blessing!”
13And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying:

“Blessing and honor and glory and power
Be to Him who sits on the throne,
And to the Lamb, forever and [g]ever!”
14Then the four living creatures said, “Amen!” And the [h]twenty-four elders fell down and worshiped https://biblehub.com/nkjv/revelation/5.htm#footnotesHim who lives forever and ever.

No that's wrong.

Beginning with Revelation 5:8-14 you should observe that in verse 8, around the throne is where the the living creatures and the elders are. Verse 13 refers to "Him who sits on the throne" and "the Lamb" showing distinction between the throne of God and the throne of the Lamb. Remember where in verse 8 it says that around the throne is where the living creatures and elders are? Verse 14 says the elders fell down and worshipped. So where they fell down was before the throne of God, and not the Lamb. They were worshipping God the Father.

 

[DavidTree]

No that's wrong.

Beginning with Revelation 5:8-14 you should observe that in verse 8, around the throne is where the the living creatures and the elders are. Verse 13 refers to "Him who sits on the throne" and "the Lamb" showing distinction between the throne of God and the throne of the Lamb. Remember where in verse 8 it says that around the throne is where the living creatures and elders are? Verse 14 says the elders fell down and worshipped. So where they fell down was before the throne of God, and not the Lamb. They were worshipping God the Father.

@Runningman

OK, let us start with chapter 1 in Revelation

To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

What do you see here???

 

[Runningman]

no the word " it " is not in the original text it’s a bad translation. Here are some good translations

New King James Version
the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us—

New American Standard Bible
and the life was revealed, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was revealed to us—

NASB 1995
and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us—


English Revised Version
(and the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare unto you the life, the eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us

NASB 1977
and the life was manifested, and we have seen and bear witness and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us—

Berean Literal Bible
and the life was made manifest, and we have seen and bear witness, and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was revealed to us


American Standard Version
(and the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare unto you the life, the eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us);

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And The Life was revealed and we perceived and we testify and we proclaim to you the Life Eternal, that which was with The Father and was revealed to us

Literal Standard Version
and the Life appeared, and we have seen, and testify, and declare to you the continuous Life, which was with the Father, and was revealed to us—

NET Bible
and the life was revealed, and we have seen and testify and announce to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was revealed to us).

Weymouth New Testament
the Life was manifested, and we have seen and bear witness, and we declare unto you the Life of the Ages which was with the Father and was manifested to us--

World English Bible
(and the life was revealed, and we have seen, and testify, and declare to you the life, the eternal life, which was with the Father, and was revealed to us);

Young's Literal Translation
and the Life was manifested, and we have seen, and do testify, and declare to you the Life, the age-during, which was with the Father, and was manifested to us

Next fallacy

It's in the original translation because it's in the Greek. This is very basic subject-predicate reading comprehension. With the translations/versions you have presented as the "good translations" you are putting the cart in front of the horse. In other words, you are beginning with a minority interpretation of Scripture and representing it as a majority.

For example, the Word is only ever referred to with a masculine pronoun in John 1 and it never happens again. In the rest of Scripture, there is no one named the Word saying or doing anything. The Word as God is never spoken of again by John, Jesus, or any of the other apostles. There are many examples of where the word of God and Jesus are spoken of in the same sentence and context, but as distinct from one to another. John 1 regarding the Word is simply personification. The word of God is not itself God. John said so. You are essentially being a Logos Theologian rather than keeping a broader perspective on Scripture.

Here are some good translations for you:

New International Version
The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.

English Standard Version
the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us—

Berean Standard Bible
And this is the life that was revealed; we have seen it and testified to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was revealed to us.

Berean Literal Bible
and the life was made manifest, and we have seen and bear witness, and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was revealed to us--

King James Bible
(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us

New King James Version
the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us—

New American Standard Bible
and the life was revealed, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was revealed to us—

NASB 1995
and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us—

NASB 1977
and the life was manifested, and we have seen and bear witness and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us—

Legacy Standard Bible
and the life was manifested, and we have seen and bear witness and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us—

Christian Standard Bible
that life was revealed, and we have seen it and we testify and declare to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was revealed to us —

Holman Christian Standard Bible
that life was revealed, and we have seen it and we testify and declare to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was revealed to us—

American Standard Version
(and the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare unto you the life, the eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us);

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And The Life was revealed and we perceived and we testify and we proclaim to you the Life Eternal, that which was with The Father and was revealed to us.

Contemporary English Version
The one who gives life appeared! We saw it happen, and we are witnesses to what we have seen. Now we are telling you about this eternal life that was with the Father and appeared to us.

Douay-Rheims Bible
For the life was manifested; and we have seen and do bear witness, and declare unto you the life eternal, which was with the Father, and hath appeared to us:

English Revised Version
(and the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare unto you the life, the eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us);

GOD'S WORD® Translation
This life was revealed to us. We have seen it, and we testify about it. We are reporting to you about this eternal life that was in the presence of the Father and was revealed to us.

International Standard Version
This life was revealed to us, and we have seen it and testify about it. We declare to you this eternal life that was with the Father and was revealed to us.

Literal Standard Version
and the Life appeared, and we have seen, and testify, and declare to you the continuous Life, which was with the Father, and was revealed to us—

Majority Standard Bible
And this is the life that was revealed; we have seen it and testified to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was revealed to us.

New American Bible
for the life was made visible; we have seen it and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was made visible to us—

NET Bible
and the life was revealed, and we have seen and testify and announce to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was revealed to us).

New Revised Standard Version
this life was revealed, and we have seen it and testify to it, and declare to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was revealed to us—

New Heart English Bible
(and the life was revealed, and we have seen, and testify, and declare to you the life, the eternal life, which was with the Father, and was revealed to us);

Webster's Bible Translation
(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and testify, and show to you that eternal life which was with the Father, and was manifested to us


World English Bible
(and the life was revealed, and we have seen, and testify, and declare to you the life, the eternal life, which was with the Father, and was revealed to us);

Young's Literal Translation
and the Life was manifested, and we have seen, and do testify, and declare to you the Life, the age-during, which was with the Father, and was manifested to us --