Why I don’t believe or accept the trinity.

[mikesw]

That point is unrelated to the fact that God gave Jesus the power to forgive sins. That means Jesus didn't inherently have that power.

Duh. The verse still describes the viewpoint taken by the people who had not yet known the divinity of Christ.
The verse does not say God gave this to Jesus. It speaks of God giving such ability to men, but there was only one man who forgave sins. So Matt 9:7 gives a commentary on the people's vantage point.
I guess you start with the weakest arguments first and then try to build up from there. I also can share a little secret. Those who gathered together to talk about the full identity of Christ Jesus had that verse available to them too.

 

[Runningman]

Duh. The verse still describes the viewpoint taken by the people who had not yet known the divinity of Christ. I guess you start with the weakest arguments first and then try to build up from there. I also can share a little secret. Those who gathered together to talk about the full identity of Christ Jesus had that verse available to them too.

You question was:

"So you say Jesus, as a mere man, forgave sins people committed against God, and somehow evaded the guilt of his blasphemy?"

And the answer is you have the wrong idea. Matthew 8:6-8 says Jesus had the power to forgive sins. After that, it says God gave the power to men. It means Jesus isn't God. Any other questions?

 

[mikesw]

You question was:

"So you say Jesus, as a mere man, forgave sins people committed against God, and somehow evaded the guilt of his blasphemy?"

And the answer is you have the wrong idea. Matthew 8:6-8 says Jesus had the power to forgive sins. After that, it says God gave the power to men. It means Jesus isn't God. Any other questions?

My question is when you will start with some decent arguments. Also note that the passage is Matt 9:6-8. Obvious in v 3, the issue in view is the supposed blasphemy. Jesus is sent from Heaven, being divinity, and thus is not blaspheming. So chalk up another point for the Trinitarian view. Next argument?

 

[Runningman]

My question is when you will start with some decent arguments. Also note that the passage is Matt 9:6-8. Obvious in v 3, the issue in view is the supposed blasphemy. Jesus is sent from Heaven, being divinity, and thus is not blaspheming. So chalk up another point for the Trinitarian view. Next argument?

You haven’t addressed the argument that refuted your first question. The matter is Jesus got his power to forgive sins from God just like the other men did.

Next question concerning your misunderstanding about the Trinity, feel free to ask anything about the Bible.

 

[mikesw]

You haven’t addressed the argument that refuted your first question. The matter is Jesus got his power to forgive sins from God just like the other men did.

Next question concerning your misunderstanding about the Trinity, feel free to ask anything about the Bible.

sorry you missed that post.

 

[Runningman]

sorry you missed that post.

You lost every inch of ground regarding Jesus’ autonomy to forgive sins. He didn’t inherently have that power because it was given to him by God. Other men had it too. That’s scripture. Sorry your view is the one that has been dealt with.

If you have another question feel free to ask.God bless.

 

[mikesw]

You lost every inch of ground regarding Jesus’ autonomy to forgive sins. He didn’t inherently have that power because it was given to him by God. Other men had it too. That’s scripture. Sorry your view is the one that has been dealt with.

If you have another question feel free to ask.God bless.

If you have no more argument for Matt 9, maybe you can address other passages that also speak of Christ's divinity.

 

[Runningman]

If you have no more argument for Matt 9, maybe you can address other passages that also speak of Christ's divinity.

No argument to make since it plainly says the power the men had was given by God. Jesus couldn’t forgive sins until God allowed it. Checkmate. Jesus isn’t God.

If you have any other arguments to make I welcome all of them.

 

[mikesw]

No argument to make since it plainly says the power the men had was given by God. Jesus couldn’t forgive sins until God allowed it. Checkmate. Jesus isn’t God.

If you have any other arguments to make I welcome all of them.

The problem you will have is that you really have to show alternative interpretations of the passages that show the divinity of Christ. There are also issues of how a mere human's death has any significance in justification with God. It is not simply presenting the humanity of Christ, which is something most of us have not denied. You cannot do this by picking at little verses here and there and figuring how they deny Christ's divinity.
You can get some help from Pancho Frijoles who seeks to deny the divinity of Christ so he can equate Jesus with every other religion's leader.

 

[DavidTree]

No argument to make since it plainly says the power the men had was given by God. Jesus couldn’t forgive sins until God allowed it. Checkmate. Jesus isn’t God.

If you have any other arguments to make I welcome all of them.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 

[Runningman]

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Apostle John called the Word an it, a thing, in 1 John 1. Do you know why? The Word isn’t actually person or God. He doesn’t exist anywhere in the Old Testament. It’s personification.

1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life— 2the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us—

 

[Runningman]

The problem you will have is that you really have to show alternative interpretations of the passages that show the divinity of Christ. There are also issues of how a mere human's death has any significance in justification with God. It is not simply presenting the humanity of Christ, which is something most of us have not denied. You cannot do this by picking at little verses here and there and figuring how they deny Christ's divinity.
You can get some help from Pancho Frijoles who seeks to deny the divinity of Christ so he can equate Jesus with every other religion's leader.

So far you have not presented a different argument concerning your belief that Jesus is God. The one you did present got handled with Scripture. If you have nothing else just say so.

 

[DavidTree]

Apostle John called the Word an it, a thing, in 1 John 1. Do you know why? The Word isn’t an actually person or God. He doesn’t exist anywhere in the Old Testament. It’s personification.

1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life— 2the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us—

John never called the Word an "it" or "thing"

Are you under the sway watchtower/jw?

 

[DavidTree]

John never called the Word an "it" or "thing"

Are you under the sway watchtower/jw?

hat which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life— 2the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us— 3that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. 4And these things we write to you that [a]your joy may be full.

 

[Runningman]

John never called the Word an "it" or "thing"

Are you under the sway watchtower/jw?

1 John 1:1-2 calls the Word a thing. Acts 4:24-27 also demonstrates John and Peter didn’t believe Jesus is God. They prayed to God and called Jesus His servant.

And no I’m not a jw.

 

[DavidTree]

Apostle John called the Word an it, a thing, in 1 John 1. Do you know why? The Word isn’t actually person or God. He doesn’t exist anywhere in the Old Testament. It’s personification.

1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life— 2the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us—

John never called the Word an "it" or "thing"

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life— 2the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us— 3that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. 4And these things we write to you that your joy may be full.

 

[DavidTree]

1 John 1:1-2 calls the Word a thing. Acts 4:24-27 also demonstrates John and Peter didn’t believe Jesus is God. They prayed to God and called Jesus His servant.

Stop lying.

Here is the TRUTH

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life— 2the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us— 3that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. 4And these things we write to you that your joy may be full.

 

[Runningman]

hat which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life— 2the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us— 3that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. 4And these things we write to you that [a]your joy may be full.

A that and a which is a thing. The Greek grammar says so and most versions and translations plainly call the Word an it in 1 John 1:1-2.

 

[DavidTree]

1 John 1:1-2 calls the Word a thing. Acts 4:24-27 also demonstrates John and Peter didn’t believe Jesus is God. They prayed to God and called Jesus His servant.

And no I’m not a jw.

Do you realize that God will never allow you into Heaven except thru the LORD Jesus Christ?

 

[Runningman]

Stop lying.

Here is the TRUTH

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life— 2the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us— 3that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. 4And these things we write to you that your joy may be full.

1 John 1:1-2 says the Word is an it in the KJV also.

1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us