Why are Calvinists so mean ?

[civic]

Burden of proof? We've been talking about this verse (and ones similar)

.....to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin. Jer 32:35

The other poster stated,

"How can God determine a thing and it not enter into his mind that they should do this"

So he's got to add proof to show that if something didn't even enter one's mind that can't mean they determined it?????? Don't the words of anything speak for themselves?

So if something is soaking wet I can say at the same time it's totally dry? Of if something is really cold I can say at the same time it's really hot. That seems like the game you play with the WORD of God. God says something never entered into his mind but you say NOPE he planned it!

That's like saying something is wet/dry, cold/hot, lie/truth, brave/cowardly. When God says something never entered his mind that means you don't take things in reverse and say NOPE he planned it! You do realize right that you're insulting God by making such a charge against him when he clearly said he didn't plan it?

Ditto

 

[TomL]

Burden of proof? We've been talking about this verse (and ones similar)

.....to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin. Jer 32:35

The other poster stated,

"How can God determine a thing and it not enter into his mind that they should do this"

So he's got to add proof to show that if something didn't even enter one's mind that can't mean they determined it?????? Don't the words of anything speak for themselves?

So if something is soaking wet I can say at the same time it's totally dry? Of if something is really cold I can say at the same time it's really hot. That seems like the game you play with the WORD of God. God says something never entered into his mind but you say NOPE he planned it!

That's like saying something is wet/dry, cold/hot, lie/truth, brave/cowardly. When God says something never entered his mind that means you don't take things in reverse and say NOPE he planned it! You do realize right that you're insulting God by making such a charge against him when he clearly said he didn't plan it?

It's kind of obvious. Isn't it

The other poster stated,

"How can God determine a thing and it not enter into his mind that they should do this"

So he's got to add proof to show that if something didn't even enter one's mind that can't mean they determined it?????? Don't the words of anything speak for themselves?

 

[TomL]

Agreed. He can determine something to occur He never commanded.

Continuing the dodge

Can he determine something without it entering his mind, they should do this?

You are not dealing with the issue forthrightly.

 

[civic]

Continuing the dodge

Can he determine something without it entering his mind, they should do this?

You are not dealing with the issue forthrightly.

lol that’s a good one

 

[Rockson]

And there is the key. He would have never COMMANDED them to do such a thing.

Sorry Presby but I think you might be good at playing the Game of Twister. You ever see that game from the 60's? Had fun with it in my day. A mat is spread out on the floor with big color spots. You dial a needle to tell where one puts their hands and feet.

One's body get contorted in all sorts of positions. You eventually fall over. Seems to me that's what your theology is doing to you. Yes God never commanded them to do it true but it never entered into even his mind that they should do it. You of course on purpose try to make that seem he's saying it never entered his mind to even command it. Nope!

Sorry but you're getting contorted.

Have your mind take this straight it never entered his mind that THEY SHOULD EVEN DO IT not that he would command it.

 

[TomL]

lol that’s a good one

Indeed

 

[Presby02]

Sorry Presby but I think you might be good at playing the Game of Twister. You ever see that game from the 60's? Had fun with it in my day. A mat is spread out on the floor with big color spots. You dial a needle to tell where one puts their hands and feet.

One's body get contorted in all sorts of positions. You eventually fall over. Seems to me that's what your theology is doing to you. Yes God never commanded them to do it true but it never entered into even his mind that they should do it. You of course on purpose try to make that seem he's saying it never entered his mind to even command it. Nope!

Sorry but you're getting contorted.

Have your mind take this straight it never entered his mind that THEY SHOULD EVEN DO IT not that he would command it.

I'm sorry to. That does not mean He did not determine it to occur.

 

[Presby02]

Continuing the dodge

Can he determine something without it entering his mind, they should do this?

You are not dealing with the issue forthrightly.

Enter His mind in this context is commanding them to do it. That does not mean He did not determine them to do it. As my example points out and you and yours just ignore. God would never command someone to murder, His Son, but He did plan and determine it to occur.

 

[TomL]

Enter His mind in this context is commanding them to do it. That does not mean He did not determine them to do it. As my example points out and you and yours just ignore. God would never command someone to murder, His Son, but He did plan and determine it to occur.

The question was

Can he determine something without it entering his mind, they should do this?

You are not dealing with the issue forthrightly.

 

[Rockson]

I'm sorry to. That does not mean He did not determine it to occur.

So maybe you can tell us something or anything that you determined would occur that you didn't think about prior to it happening?

Your words in the quote box above. Did you just wake up today and discover they had appeared by themselves over night? That would truly be right that it never entered your mind to do it? If we see a response to you with this.....are we to believe it never entered into your mind to do it the words would appear first and you would think about doing it later? Meanwhile we have words that have come across in you name?

Or if you have a spouse. You determined you wanted to marry them beforehand right? That required for you to have a thought about it prior correct? Or if you had no knowledge that you thought about it prior......what we're you intoxicated and woke up discovering you had tied the knot with no memory of doing so? Give us something to work with. How can you determine something without prior having the thought about it in your mind?

 

[Presby02]

The question was

Can he determine something without it entering his mind, they should do this?

You are not dealing with the issue forthrightly.

And you are denying His omniscience.

The key word is "command", which you continually. Because He would not command them to do it does not mean He would not plan and determine them to do it. See the crucifixion, which you continue to ignore and are not dealing forthrightly with.

 

[Presby02]

So maybe you can tell us something or anything that you determined would occur that you didn't think about prior to it happening?

Your words in the quote box above. Did you just wake up today and discover they had appeared by themselves over night? That would truly be right that it never entered your mind to do it? If we see a response to you with this.....are we to believe it never entered into your mind to do it the words would appear first and you would think about doing it later? Meanwhile we have words that have come across in you name?

Or if you have a spouse. You determined you wanted to marry them beforehand right? That required for you to have a thought about it prior correct? Or if you had no knowledge that you thought about it prior......what we're you intoxicated and woke up discovering you had tied the knot with no memory of doing so? Give us something to work with. How can you determine something without prior having the thought about it in your mind?

Acts 4:27,28. Was that a last minute plan? Just wondering. LOL

I gave you a example. See text above.

 

[Rockson]

Acts 4:27,28. Was that a last minute plan? Just wondering. LOL

I don't know why you're laughing. We all agree God made plans and thought about Jesus dying as a substititure for man BEFORE IT happened. Act 4:27 But why are you trying to make that as a universal thing with all the events taking place on the Earth? Jer 32:35 says about what THEY were doing that it never entered into his mind THAT THEY would do such an abomination. So let's go back and say it again. We're not talking about what happened in Acts 4. We're talking about what happened in Jer 32:35 Stay on topic please without diverting.

 

[Rockson]

I gave you a example. See text above.

So again give us an example of something you did or determined but you didn't have a thought about it prior.

So readers you can see what Calvinists do when their beliefs put them into a corner with no way out. They try to bluff their way out even seeking to marginalize the other with laughing, as the put down LOL in their last post.

 

[civic]

The question was

Can he determine something without it entering his mind, they should do this?

You are not dealing with the issue forthrightly.

Notice the dodging and evasiveness

 

[TomL]

Notice the dodging and evasiveness

Yes typical

 

[civic]

So maybe you can tell us something or anything that you determined would occur that you didn't think about prior to it happening?

Your words in the quote box above. Did you just wake up today and discover they had appeared by themselves over night? That would truly be right that it never entered your mind to do it? If we see a response to you with this.....are we to believe it never entered into your mind to do it the words would appear first and you would think about doing it later? Meanwhile we have words that have come across in you name?

Or if you have a spouse. You determined you wanted to marry them beforehand right? That required for you to have a thought about it prior correct? Or if you had no knowledge that you thought about it prior......what we're you intoxicated and woke up discovering you had tied the knot with no memory of doing so? Give us something to work with. How can you determine something without prior having the thought about it in your mind?

Amen

 

[Presby02]

I don't know why you're laughing. We all agree God made plans and thought about Jesus dying as a substititure for man BEFORE IT happened. Act 4:27 But why are you trying to make that as a universal thing with all the events taking place on the Earth? Jer 32:35 says about what THEY were doing that it never entered into his mind THAT THEY would do such an abomination. So let's go back and say it again. We're not talking about what happened in Acts 4. We're talking about what happened in Jer 32:35 Stay on topic please without diverting.

Actually He did much more than that
Not only planned, but determined and brought it about by His hand.

Acts 4 is a great example of God determining something He would never command. It runs contrary to your position on Jer. 32.

 

[TomL]

Actually He did much more than that
Not only planned, but determined and brought it about by His hand.

Acts 4 is a great example of God determining something He would never command. It runs contrary to your position on Jer. 32.

The question is how could God determine someone to do something without it coming into his mind that they should do it

 

[Rockson]

Actually He did much more than that
Not only planned, but determined and brought it about by His hand.

Acts 4 is a great example of God determining something He would never command. It runs contrary to your position on Jer. 32.

Well I have a question for you. It's this, How could God determine someone to do something without it coming into his mind that they should do it

You might say well that's what Tom just asked you. Yes and I've been asking you this too over and over and over again. I do think you make a Good Poster Child for someone who holds to Never, Ever, Ever be put in the position of being put on the defensive no matter what come what may! It does come across as embarrassing for you when you claim the theological structure in which you've put your faith in is swept away by truth but you claim it still stands....and yet all you're holding is a door knob.

I'd encourage you just to accept the truth. There are many, many things that ARE NOT ordained for is they were God would have thought about it first. Jer 32 states there are various things he did not ordain. Even one thing causes Calvinism to collapse.