And no he's off to predestination. LOLjust like I believe in predestination
no worries
The relevance should escape you. Unless it's a lame attempt at topic change.
When Grace is not Grace
- Thread starter The Rogue Tomato
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The relevance should escape you. Unless it's a lame attempt at topic change.
They all did as the quotes show
And you do deny the free will the Father's Pre augustine taught
Even Augustine himself before he reverted to his previous gnostic leanings
Sorry read the quotes . There was no hint of compatibilism and you are in denial
I don't deny free will. So I agree with them.
Was the free will they taught LFW? Got quotes?
civic
Well-known member
Yep the great river De Nile
As opposed to the Tiber your swimming fast across.Yep the great river De Nile
Seriously
You tried to equate compatibilism with the free will the fathers taught.
It was nothing like it if you read the quotes
and LFW is what was termed free will made necessary only because of the attempt by Calvinists to equate free will and determination under the umbrella of the term Compatibilism
The father P.A. denied determinism, which was only taught only in gnostic sects
Free will is part of compatibilism. Look up the definition. Get back to us. And can be clearly inferred from scripture and by the very fact scripture exists.
No church fathers mention LFW or compatibilism. Those were not categories 1700 years ago.
civic
Well-known member
Some have no idea on church history and the origin of their doctrines
brightfame52
Well-known member
Grace is not Grace when we teach that those whom the Father Draws Jn 6:44 or the Son Draws after being lifted up for them on that Tree for their sins, that though being drawn, some will not come to believe in Christ in a conversion experience, then Grace is not Grace because its power was overcome by finite strength not to come and believe. The drawing is nothing short of the Infinite Power of Gods Grace, the word draw helkó:
I drag, draw, pull, persuade/cause to believe, unsheathe.
metaphorically, to draw by inward power, lead, impel
That inward, not external, but inward power is the Grace of God reigning !
It also means:
I by my moral, my spiritual, influence will win over to myself the hearts of all,
If all Christ draws to Him isnt won over to Him to be His followers, Infinite Grace was overcome by finite man, finite devil, finite flesh
Gods drawing is His Mighty Hand of Power so I ask Dan 4:35
And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
That word stay mean hinder and hand means His Power. Evidently you believe mans will can !
You, being case in point
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
You seem to be reasonable at times. There is no comparison in this. @civic has a through knowledge of the subject.
Just admit it and move on.
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I see no evidence of your claim
He seems to be quite ignorant of what he speaks of. So I will remain right here.
You provided no answer
Israel was drawn
Jeremiah 31:3 (KJV 1900) — 3 The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: Therefore with loving kindness have I drawn thee.
Were they true believers?
Yes. The earliest church fathers are not kind to Calvinism
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Appealing to a late "named distinction" to dismiss earlier evidence is rather silly on your part.
If the duck acts like a duck.... it IS a duck.... It doesn't matter if it is a hen or a drake.
Call it a winged platypus for all I care. They share "DNA" to some degree.
If you have a meaningful distinction you would to make.... then make it. Otherwise you're just complaining to complain.
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civic
Well-known member
I know Calvinism far better than you ever will. That’s a fact
Except no father P.A. taught it
and i do not need to look it up as I know exactly what it is.
and it is just a form of determinism
Another baseless claim.
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