When Grace is not Grace
- Thread starter The Rogue Tomato
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Behold
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Behold
Well-known member
Look in the mirror.
civic
Well-known member
I see you cannot handle the truth which is why you ran far away from the question which exposes your false assumptions .
Next
The one who has issues with questions is you sir. Hence you ignore them and post irrelevant ignorance in a attempt to change the topic.
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I did and fell immediately in love. I'm so handsome.
civic
Well-known member
Wrong all you have are questions and no substance in your posts . You are incapable of exegetical analysis of any passage.
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The question was not what you perceive as error
As if anyone cares what you perceive.
You questioned His motives. What were his motives? To decieve?
Behold
Well-known member
Then thank God for that...
civic
Well-known member
Narcissistic yikes
Behold
Well-known member
Do you want to know?
Ok..
Paul told the born again that we must "establish our HEART... with GRACE..... " and if we dont' then a "doctrine of devils" is going to get your mind.
What's that mean?
It means that when Paul says..>"Put on the Shield of FAITH"...........that means the same thing as what JUDE says, = "contend for the REAL Faith".
And all this simply means that because the Devil goes about as a LYING DECEIVER, with supernatural power to cause that to happen....then if your FAITH is misplaced, then God's Grace is not your Heart's truth and that means you have no SHIELD,= LIFTED UP in the spirit realm to keep from being deceived by a "Doctrine of Devils".
And Calvin did not understand Grace, and that is why He Limits the Cross, and teaches that you have no way to Trust in Christ, unless God forces you to believe..
So, we see that He had no understanding of the Grace of God, and that means no SHIELD of Faith, and so the Devil took his mind.
And because he's an intellectual, that just made it worse and out poured from him a theology that is a cancer on the Body of Christ for 500 yrs.
Of course.
Because you claim he did not understand something does not mean his motives were suspect. Very poor reasoning
praise_yeshua
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praise_yeshua
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Narcissistic yikes
Do you think they see themselves when they "see" Jesus?
I wonder sometimes given the way they claim "to be chosen"....
civic
Well-known member
Yes a distorted picture of God/ Christ
Repeating failed claims does not make them stronger
John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”
Calvinists tend toward isolating verses from their context do they can read their theology into the text
The phrase work of God has been defined for us by verse 28
John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”
In context its meaning is that which God requires of man
Repeating the same failed claims changes nothing
John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”
Jesus tells them there is something they must do to obtain the food which last for eternal life
in context it is to believe on him
John 6:35–36 (NASB 2020) — 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; the one who comes to Me will not be hungry, and the one who believes in Me will never be thirsty. 36 But I said to you that you have indeed seen Me, and yet you do not believe.
John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”
Again this establishes the meaning of the phrase the work of God as that which is required by God
John 6:29 (NASB 2020) — 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”
Jesus tells them they must believe
John 6:30 (NASB 2020) — 30 So they said to Him, “What then are You doing as a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work are You performing?
The jew understand him to be telling them they must believe.
An understanding confirmed by Christ as per verse 35 above
They must believe
An understanding confirmed by scripture
Acts 16:30–31 (NASB 2020) — 30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
even Calvinist commentator agree with this obvious reading
John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)
This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.
Even the notes to the Geneva bible refute you
Verse 29
5. Men torment themselves in vain when they try to please God without faith.
g. That is, this is the work that God requires, that you believe in me, and therefore he calls them back to faith.
Geneva Bible Notes (1599). (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2003), Jn 6:28–29.
Your own peers refute you but you have little care what the bible or even your peers state so long as you can support your assumed theology
Other voices
Believe. Faith is put as a moral act or work. The work of God is to believe. Faith includes all the works which God requires. The Jews’ question contemplates numerous works. Jesus’ answer directs them to one work. Canon Westcott justly observes that “this simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works.”11 Marvin Richardson Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament (vol. 2; New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1887), 148–149.
What precisely is it that God waits for us to do, and will be satisfied with our doing? To which Jesus, always ready to meet the sincere inquirer, gives the explicit answer (ver. 29) τοῦτό ἐστι … ἐκεῖνος. If God has sent a messenger it is because there is need of such interposition, and the first duty must be to listen believingly to this messenger.
Marcus Dods, The Gospel of St. John (New York: George H. Doran Company, n.d.), 752.
The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God, is the work of God; but that the truest way of working the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hath sent.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 761.
Mindlessly repeating your view ignoring context and even ignoring your own peers does not negate what the scripture clearly shows
brightfame52
Well-known member
Grace is not Grace when we teach that those whom the Father Draws Jn 6:44 or the Son Draws after being lifted up for them on that Tree for their sins, that though being drawn, some will not come to believe in Christ in a conversion experience, then Grace is not Grace because its power was overcome by finite strength not to come and believe. The drawing is nothing short of the Infinite Power of Gods Grace, the word draw helkó:
I drag, draw, pull, persuade/cause to believe, unsheathe.
metaphorically, to draw by inward power, lead, impel
That inward, not external, but inward power is the Grace of God reigning !
It also means:
I by my moral, my spiritual, influence will win over to myself the hearts of all,
If all Christ draws to Him isnt won over to Him to be His followers, Infinite Grace was overcome by finite man, finite devil, finite flesh
Jeremiah 31:3 (KJV 1900) — 3 The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: Therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.
Israel was drawn
brightfame52
Well-known member
Grace is not Grace when we teach that those whom the Father Draws Jn 6:44 or the Son Draws after being lifted up for them on that Tree for their sins, that though being drawn, some will not come to believe in Christ in a conversion experience, then Grace is not Grace because its power was overcome by finite strength not to come and believe. The drawing is nothing short of the Infinite Power of Gods Grace, the word draw helkó:
I drag, draw, pull, persuade/cause to believe, unsheathe.
metaphorically, to draw by inward power, lead, impel
That inward, not external, but inward power is the Grace of God reigning !
It also means:
I by my moral, my spiritual, influence will win over to myself the hearts of all,
If all Christ draws to Him isnt won over to Him to be His followers, Infinite Grace was overcome by finite man, finite devil, finite flesh
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