When are believers in Christ ?

[Presby02]

Learn the truth grasshopper it’s undeniably

Though the word “fatalism” is commonly used to refer to an attitude of resignation in the face of some future event or events which are thought to be inevitable, philosophers usually use the word to refer to the view that we are powerless to do anything other than what we actually do. This view may be argued for in various ways: by appeal to logical laws and metaphysical necessities; by appeal to the existence and nature of God; by appeal to causal determinism. When argued for in the first way, it is commonly called “Logical fatalism” (or, in some cases, “Metaphysical fatalism”); when argued for in the second way, it is commonly called “Theological fatalism”.

Word count proves nothing. You have no idea what your taking about as usual. Fatalism HAS NO CAUSATION. Determinism does. It's called our creator. The God of the Bible.

Fatalism dives no account for our previous choices or circumstances. Determinism does.

 

[civic]

Word count proves nothing. You have no idea what your taking about as usual. Fatalism HAS NO CAUSATION. Determinism does. It's called our creator. The God of the Bible.

Fatalism dives no account for our previous choices or circumstances. Determinism does.

I have provided 1/2 dozen reliable sources that agree with me and all you have is your personal opinion with nothing to back it up except to say “ no it’s not “ lol as your apologetic response .

Sounds much the same as the defense with your doctrines. Based upon opinion, feelings and the opinions of men , not the Bible.

Next

 

[synergy]

There are only two true positions folks hold to~one is unconditional salvation from sin and condemnation, freely given to God's elect~a salvation 100% secured by the obedience and righteousness of ONE PERSON, the Son of God; the other, is conditional salvation offered unto sinners who are at enmity against God from conception, which salvation is based upon man's free will of opening his own heart to allow God to come in, to saved him from his sins~this salvation is totally up to man, for the taking if he would only believe and repent, etc; etc

Which one do you embrace and teach? You tell us what you believe, so we refute your work gospel.

It's fascinating that you did not quote even one Bible verse in your entire tirade, typical of those taken hostage by TULIP indoctrination. You just blurted out your manifesto. My manifesto is the Bible. The sooner you realize that the better for you.

Basically, God saves those who believe.
(1 Cor 1:21) "For since, in the wisdom of God, the world by wisdom did not know God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save those who believe."
Also Rom 10:9: "Because if you confess the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved."

I believe in unconditional salvation...100% freely secured for God's elect by Jesus Christ alone, and in time freely imparted to us vitally.

That flies in the face of 2 Th 2:13 that proclaims that election onto salvation is through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. That proves that Election onto Salvation is Conditional.

(2 Th 2:13) But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,

Eternally, it was promised to us in Chris tbefore the world begun.

It wasn't just a promised future event for Believers. God actually and truly chose us (Paul's audience, all Believers) in Christ before the foundation of the world (Eph 1:4). The "us" is clearly Paul's audience, Believers, not certain members belonging to Calvinism's Hindu-like Caste Syatem. We are not Hindus. Do you understand?

(Eph 1:4) just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,

 

[Presby02]

I have provided 1/2 dozen reliable sources that agree with me and all you have is your personal opinion with nothing to back it up except to say “ no it’s not “ lol.

Next

I actually provided reasons as to why your wrong.

Want more?

1) Determinism is dependent on causality.
Fatalism has no causality.

2)In Determinism the future is causally determined.
In Fatalism the future is fated or destined.

3)In Determinism what we do, think and say is part of the causal process.

In fatalism we are fated natter we do, think or say.

That should be enough to get you started.

Plenty more where that came from.

Learn, educate yourself.

 

[civic]

I actually provided reasons as to why your wrong.

Want more?

1) Determinism is dependent on causality.
Fatalism has no causality.

2)In Determinism the future is causally determined.
In Fatalism the future is fated or destined.

3)In Determinism what we do, think and say is part of the causal process.

In fatalism we are fated natter we do, think or say.

That should be enough to get you started.

Plenty more where that came from.

Learn, educate yourself.

A distinction without a difference .

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[synergy]

your a bore sir. You add nothing to the conversations but your childish cheap shots. Go play

Your total inability to intelligently respond to any of my questions or observations and your inability to carry on a conversation is on display for all to see. Carry on with your typical Calvinist thought pattern of ad hominems, alooftness, and willingness to remain in a state of dirt poor reading comprehension.

 

[Presby02]

A distinction without a difference .

Next

Your total inability to intelligently respond to any of my questions or observations and your inability to carry on a conversation is on display for all to see. Carry on with your typical Calvinist thought pattern of ad hominems, alooftness, and willingness to remain in a state of dirt poor reading comprehension.

Love you

 

[Presby02]

A distinction without a difference .

Next

I guess that was enough. Sure you don't want more?

 

[civic]

I guess that was enough. Sure you don't want more?

I have proven with many reliable sources your are a theological fatalist.

It’s time you face those facts or will you remain in De Nile ?

Next

 

[synergy]

I actually provided reasons as to why your wrong.

Want more?

1) Determinism is dependent on causality.
Fatalism has no causality.

Huh? If you believe that God causes everything, which includes the fatalism of the "non-elect", then fatalism does have a cause, your Calvinist God.

2)In Determinism the future is causally determined.
In Fatalism the future is fated or destined.

Huh? Determinism is not "destined"?

3)In Determinism what we do, think and say is part of the causal process.

Way to go Einstein. What we determine is determinism.

In fatalism we are fated natter we do, think or say.

That sounds exactly what Calvinists teach about their unfortunate non-elect out-of-luck colleagues.

That should be enough to get you started.
Plenty more where that came from.

I've heard enough.

Learn, educate yourself.

Au contraire, mon ami.

 

[civic]

Huh? If you believe that God causes everything, which includes the fatalism of the "non-elect", then fatalism does have a cause, your Calvinist God.

Huh? Determinism is not "destined"?

Way to go Einstein. What we determine is determinism.

That sounds exactly what Calvinists teach about their unfortunate non-elect out-of-luck colleagues.

I've heard enough.

Au contraire, mon ami.

It’s a theological pretzel lol. The twisting of scripture at its finest with all the contradictions.

 

[synergy]

It’s a theological pretzel lol. The twisting of scripture at its finest with all the contradictions.

The thing is that not once do they even quote the Bible. They go into this zombie-like brain-washed trance where they just spew out their manifesto without even once referring to the Bible. I wish I was a Psychologist so that I can analyze and isolate the source of that zombie-like trance of theirs.

 

[civic]

The thing is that not once do they even quote the Bible. They go into this zombie-like trance where they just spew out their manifesto without even once referring to the Bible. I wish I was a Psychologist so that I can analyze and isolate the source of that zombie-like trance of theirs.

I’m not sure if it’s a willing or unwilling cognition/blindness. That’s the thing with deception the one deceived doesn’t recognize they are deceived. That’s the scary part with believing a false doctrine it has a stronghold over the mind and heart of the person. It’s the same with Unitarians, certain doctrines within Catholicism, reformed doctrine and any other unbiblical isms.

I remember when @sethproton use to say that all the time to Calvinist on the old forum for years when I was a Calvinist and I would just attack him with ad homs and all the Calvinists would gang up on him to get him banned. I was blinded back then like he said with a stronghold and could not see it but now looking back it was obvious.

Once I decided to seek truth over doctrine I had been taught and believed God opened my mind and heart as I asked honest questions about what I believed. I questioned most everything including Gods nature and character. Once I began with God then I was able to see the false doctrines I believed that did not align with Gods nature and character and started to reject them. That’s my hope and prayer for those trapped in the same doctrinal errors.

 

[synergy]

I’m not sure if it’s a willing or unwilling cognition/blindness. That’s the thing with deception the one deceived doesn’t recognize they are deceived. That’s the scary part with believing a false doctrine it has a stronghold over the mind and heart of the person. It’s the same with Unitarians, certain doctrines within Catholicism, reformed doctrine and any other unbiblical isms.

I remember when @sethproton use to say that all the time to Calvinist on the old forum for years when I was a Calvinist and I would just attack him with ad homs and all the Calvinists would gang up on him to get him banned. I was blinded back then like he said with a stronghold and could not see it but now looking back it was obvious.

Once I decided to seek truth over doctrine I had been taught and believed God opened my mind and heart as I asked honest questions about what I believed. I questioned most everything including Gods nature and character. Once I began with God then I was able to see the false doctrines I believed that did not align with Gods nature and character and started to reject them. That’s my hope and prayer for those trapped in the same doctrinal errors.

Thanks for sharing your experiences as a former calvinist. I also hope and pray that many others take the same path of an honest inquiry into the Christian Faith and break out of their calvinist anti-Biblical mindset trance.

 

[Presby02]

I have proven with many reliable sources your are a theological fatalist.

It’s time you face those facts or will you remain in De Nile ?

Next

I am facing facts. I listed three differences between the two. With more to come if needed. Determinism is not fatalism. Educate yourself.

 

[Presby02]

Huh? If you believe that God causes everything, which includes the fatalism of the "non-elect", then fatalism does have a cause, your Calvinist God.

Huh? Determinism is not "destined"?

Way to go Einstein. What we determine is determinism.

That sounds exactly what Calvinists teach about their unfortunate non-elect out-of-luck colleagues.

I've heard enough.

Au contraire, mon ami.

God is the first cause of all that exists.

Never said anything about destined.

Your problem is not hearing. It's ignorance. You have no idea what your talking about. It's just attack, attack and attack. Unfortunately for you your attacks are insanely stupid.

 

[Presby02]

It’s a theological pretzel lol. The twisting of scripture at its finest with all the contradictions.

Unsupported

 

[TomL]

Word count proves nothing. You have no idea what your taking about as usual. Fatalism HAS NO CAUSATION. Determinism does. It's called our creator. The God of the Bible.

Fatalism dives no account for our previous choices or circumstances. Determinism does.

Umm theistic determinism is fatalistic

 

[Presby02]

Umm theistic determinism is fatalistic

Ummm...no it's not. For the reasons I listed.

 

[TomL]

From the foundation of the world. See Ephesians 1

Um you were not in Christ from the foundation of the world

Ephesians 1:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,