Yep
What is fatalism
Fatalism is a philosophical doctrine that emphasizes the idea that all events, including human actions, are predetermined and inevitable. It is often associated with the concept of fate or destiny, suggesting that the course of events is already set and cannot be changed.
Key Characteristics
- Acceptance: Fatalists accept whatever happens as having been bound or decreed to happen.
- Belief in a binding or decreeing agent: Fatalism often implies the existence of a higher power, such as God or Fate, that determines the outcome of events.
- Resignation: Fatalists may adopt a resigned attitude towards the future, feeling that their actions are futile in the face of an inevitable outcome.
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When are believers in Christ ?
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civic
Well-known member
AmenYep
What is fatalism
Fatalism is a philosophical doctrine that emphasizes the idea that all events, including human actions, are predetermined and inevitable. It is often associated with the concept of fate or destiny, suggesting that the course of events is already set and cannot be changed.
Key Characteristics
- Acceptance: Fatalists accept whatever happens as having been bound or decreed to happen.
- Belief in a binding or decreeing agent: Fatalism often implies the existence of a higher power, such as God or Fate, that determines the outcome of events.
- Resignation: Fatalists may adopt a resigned attitude towards the future, feeling that their actions are futile in the face of an inevitable outcome.
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Search the Web. Privately. Truly useful results, AI-powered answers, & more. All from an independent index. No profiling, no bias, no Big Tech.
Well if you were not individually in Christ before the foundation of the world you could not be chosen individually to be holy and blameless before the foundation of the world.
You are individually in Christ in time and in time you individually are chosen to be holy and blameless
Erroneous reasons
Fatalism
First published Wed Dec 18, 2002; substantive revision Thu Feb 23, 2023Though the word “fatalism” is commonly used to refer to an attitude of resignation in the face of some future event or events which are thought to be inevitable, philosophers usually use the word to refer to the view that we are powerless to do anything other than what we actually do. This view may be argued for in various ways: by appeal to logical laws and metaphysical necessities; by appeal to the existence and nature of God; by appeal to causal determinism. When argued for in the first way, it is commonly called “Logical fatalism” (or, in some cases, “Metaphysical fatalism”); when argued for in the second way, it is commonly called “Theological fatalism”. When argued for in the third way it is not now commonly referred to as “fatalism” at all, and such arguments will not be discussed here. (For useful bibliographical information see Todd 2014 [Other Internet Resources].) https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/fatalism/
civic
Well-known member
Yep
civic
Well-known member
Yes he by definition is a fatalist
A Theistic fatalistYes he by definition is a fatalist
Corporporate election in eternity becomes individual election in time.Yep
You saying this proves nothing, especially so when you give no support to your assumption, which is based upon your gospel that has man being his own Saviour, by his own faith which can never perfect or even close to being so, which should cause one to think, knowing that the law of God demands perfection in thoughts, words, and deeds, before it will acquit the guilty. This alone you make you know that man's faith cannot be the means of him being justified in the sight of God, impossible. God can only be just while being the justifier, if perfection is yielded to his law, if not, then he must condemn the offender to death, the second death in the lake of fire....and He will if payment is not provided.
God chose us in Christ and gave us to him to be our surety to secure our perfect obedience to the law of God on our behalf, which he fulfilled perfectly in thoughts, words,and deeds from conception until his death. Without Christ being one's surety, that person has no hope of eternal life in the world to come, base upon any work he may think God will accept done by him. Apart from Christ, man's best effort are worse than filthy rags, and will be rejected, with words of depart from me ye that worketh iniquity.
2nd Timothy 1:9
“Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,”
Before the world began, would ruled out any work, good or evil on man's part, and put the cause of our salvation from sin and condemnation, solely at the feet of God's mercy. All of God children said~Amen, and amen.
Tom, 2nd TImothy 1:9 said that you are badly deceived. We were in Christ before we were ever born, with doing any good or evil~God's election of pure grace put us in Christ, and the burden placed on Christ to secure eternal life for us by his obedience and righteousness which he fulfilled perfectly. Our forgiveness of sin is not by our works (including faith) but by Jesus' perfect faith and obedience rendered unto the law of God on our behalf.
This is the truth of the gospel of God taught in the word of God, any other gospel is not the gospel of Jesus Christ, but one that falls under the curse of God~per Galatians one, by the apostle Paul.
Tom, you know that I have explained this one verse before, and should not have to keep doing so.
So, this time I'll give another person's take on it which we agree fully. Before we do so, it would be a help if we consider exactly where we find this verse location in Ephesians one~right in the middle of Paul's discourse on the sovereignty of God in the salvation of his elect. It certainly is not found in the beginning where you want to placed it, but in the middle, and a perfectly wise place to put this one scripture.
Being where we find it, we should take note to see a truth on the book ends of Ephesians 1:13, so that we will not be deceived as to where we put faith in timeline of our salvation from sin and condemnation.
We see clearly that we were chosen IN Christ before we ever had our being~this act of mercy was according to the good pleasure of God's will and his purposes, so as to glorify is grace and mercy toward us through Christ.
Also we see that the same power that resurrected Jesus Christ from the dead is the exact same power needed to resurrect us from being dead in trepassess and sins. Knowing this truth, we know that the sealing of Ephesians 1:13 cannot be speaking the sealing that takes place at regeneration is under consideration.......... impossible based on the two book ends just discussed.
So, consider the wise words of John Gill:
ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise.
"This cannot have respect to the Father's sealing his people in election, with the seal of his foreknowledge, ( 2 Timothy 2:19 ) for that is before faith, and is within himself, and not on them, and is distinct from the Spirit's work; and for the same reasons it cannot design the Son's affection to them, setting them as a seal on his arm and heart, ( Song of Solomon 8:6 ) , or his asserting his property in them, and the security and protection of them, ( Song of Solomon 4:12 ) ( Revelation 7:3 ) , nor the Spirit's finishing and completing his own work of grace upon the soul, in which sense the word is used, ( Romans 15:28 ) for this as yet was not done upon these believing Ephesians; nor the confirming the Gospel, and the saints in it, by the extraordinary effusion of the Spirit on the day of Pentecost, or by his extraordinary works which attended the ministry of the word, to the establishing of it, and the faith of men in it; since these were not common to believers, nor did they continue; whereas the believing Ephesians, in common, were sealed; and the Spirit of God continues still as a sealer of his people, and as an earnest and pledge of their inheritance until the day of redemption; but it is to be understood of the confirming, certifying, and assuring the saints, as to their interest in the favour of God, and in the blessings of grace, of every kind, and their right and title to the heavenly glory; (See Gill on 2 Corinthians 1:22), and the seal of these things is not circumcision, nor baptism, nor the Lord's supper, nor even the graces of the Spirit; but the Spirit himself, who witnesses to the spirits of believers the truth of these things, and that as a "spirit of promise": so called, both because he is the Spirit promised, as the Syriac and Ethiopic versions render it, whom the Father and Christ had promised, and who was sent by them; and because he usually seals, or certifies believers of the truth of the above things, by opening and applying a word of promise to them: and which he does also, as the "Holy" Spirit; for this sealing work of his leaves a greater impress of holiness upon the soul, and engages more to acts of holiness; wherefore the doctrine of assurance is no licentious doctrine; no persons are so holy as those who are truly possessed of that grace; and as for such who pretend unto it, and live in sin, it is a certain thing that they in reality know nothing of it.
John Calvin said almost the same thing, but a little different:
"But is it not the faith itself which is here said to be sealed by the Holy Spirit? If so, faith goes before the sealing. I answer, there are two operations of the Spirit in faith, corresponding to the two parts of which faith consists, as it enlightens, and as it establishes the mind. The commencement of faith is knowledge: the completion of it is a firm and steady conviction, which admits of no opposing doubt. Both, I have said, are the work of the Spirit. No wonder, then, if Paul should declare that the Ephesians, who received by faith the truth of the gospel, were confirmed in that faith by the seal of the Holy Spirit.
Tom, you are playing upon sound bites and failing to practice Nehemiah 8:8!
Nehemiah 8:8
“So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.”
It is fatalistic for all your unfortunate non-elect out-of-luck colleagues.
And your Pelagian God is impotent. He cannot save all He wants to. Almighty man prevents Him from doing so. He loves the whole world, loves the whole world, wants to save the whole world but just can't get it done. He has failed.
There not erroneous at all. They are actually spot on. Hence they are not dealt with.
They are not synonymous terms for the reasons stated
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Says the Bible NOWHERE. You don't choose to be chosen. LOL
civic
Well-known member
Projecting , what about your Islam god. The exact same fatalistic theistic determinist god.
Next
First of all, I'm not Pelagian so your argument crashes and burns in a great ball of fire.
Second of all, I just proved that your Calvinist god is deterministic in a fatalistic way when it comes to your unfortunate non-elect out-of-luck colleagues
My God is not the God of Islam. Your poor reasoning skills have not improved. Work on it
Yes, you are Pelgian.First of all, I'm not Pelagian so your argument crashes and burns in a great ball of fire.
Second of all, I just proved that your Calvinist god is deterministic in a fatalistic way when it comes to your unfortunate non-elect out-of-luck colleagues
And I just proved your god is a impotent failure.
Correct. Calvinism is pure paganism.
And Provisionism is pure Pelagianism
The burden of proof is on you to prove that I'm Pelagian or even a Provisionist, which I'm not, and so far you've failed miserably.
The fact remains that your Calvinist god is deterministic in a fatalistic way when it comes to your unfortunate non-elect out-of-luck colleagues.
The burden of proof is on you to prove that I'm Pelagian or even a Provisionist, which I'm not, and so far you've failed miserably.
The fact remains that your Calvinist god is deterministic in a fatalistic way when it comes to your unfortunate non-elect out-of-luck colleagues.
