civic
Well-known member
Projecting againThanks brother.
If your following the thread they are the ones on need of help.
When are believers in Christ ?
- Thread starter civic
- Start date
Who is the "you" in Ephesians 1:4 or 2 Thess. 2:13?Projecting again
Still waiting for you to prove your premise.......
Can you pick up the pace a little
civic
Well-known member
Answered several times already, not repeating the same answer once again the the same question asked ad naseaum.
What’s the definition of insanity ?
Asking the same question over and over again expecting a different result or answer.
Next
Which I will do until I get a answer. The faithful is not a answer. That would involve merit and civic would have to abondon "For by GRACE are you saved"...
civic
Well-known member
Great. Were talking about faithfulness. LOL Stay focused as best you can. Your claim was they were chosen because they were faithful. Something the text never says.Nope faith is not merit or works. Now you are denying sola fide
Next fallacy
civic
Well-known member
The predestined are those who are faithful . See Eph 1:1 which refutes your false presuppositions.
This is the same as in John 6. Those who are drawn and come are those who are already listening and learning from the Father.
Next Calvinist fallacy
civic
Well-known member
The predestined are those who are faithful . See Eph 1:1 which refutes your false presuppositions.
Jesus and Paul agree as we see below they parallel each other on elect, chosen, drawing/coming to be In Christ.
This is the same as in John 6. Those who are drawn and come are those who are already listening and learning from the Father.
My view harmonizes scripture whereas your shows discord, conflict, confusion , contradictions, oxymorons etc…
Next Calvinist fallacy
Nope. It does not say that is the reason they were predestined. Strike one
Strike 2. It does not say they were drawn BECAUSEthey heard and learned. Hearing and learning is how they are drawn. Not the reason.
FAIL
civic
Well-known member
lol another failed response
Who is next?
civic
Well-known member
When are believers placed in Christ ?Still waiting for you to prove your premise.......
1- When he becomes a new creation- Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation ( 2 Cor 5:17 )
2- When he believes the gospel- And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit-( Eph 1:13 )
3- When you believe, through faith- In Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith ( Gal 3:26)
Notice it cannot be before hearing and believing the gospel prior to becoming a believer as Paul makes clear below in Romans 16:7.
Romans 16:7- Greet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Jews who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was.
They were " IN CHRIST " before Paul was proving no one is in Christ prior to conversion. Paul was not in Christ before Junia and Andronicus.
How do you know you are in Christ ?
You are a new creation in Christ through the new birth when God sealed you with the Holy Spirit after you heard and believed the gospel of your salvation as per Ephesians 1:13. This passage below is evidence/proof that this has taken place in ones life who has been born from above.
2 Corinthians 5:17- Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
Colossians 3
Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2 Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. 3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is your[a] life, appears,then you also will appear with him in glory.
5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.[b] 7 You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8 But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 9 Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices 10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. 11 Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.
12 Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. 13 Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. 14 And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.
15 Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. 16 Let the message of Christ dwell among you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom through psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit, singing to God with gratitude in your hearts. 17 And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.
These words may be rendered there is a new creation, i.e. a new creation takes place within him. Whosoever is united to Christ by faith, possesses in himself the gift of a Divine, regenerated, spiritual humanity which Christ gives through his Spirit (cf. John 5:21; John 6:33; John 6:39-40; John 6:54; John 6:57; 1 Corinthians 15:45; 1 Peter 1:3; 1 Peter 2:2; and 2 Peter 1:4. Also chap. 2 Corinthians 1:21-22, 2 Corinthians 3:18, 2 Corinthians 4:11, 2 Corinthians 5:5). This life, which he possessed not before, is in fact a new creation of the whole man, “not to be distinguished from regeneration.” Meyer. So also Chrysostom. Cf. John 1:13; John 3:3; John 3:5; Titus 3:5. The margin of the A. V. renders let him be, which is grammatically admissible, but hardly suits the context.
old things] Literally, the old things. Cf. the ‘old man,’ Romans 6:6; Ephesians 4:22; Colossians 3:9; the ‘former conversation’ or manner of living, before the soul was dominated by the Spirit of Christ.
are past away] Literally, passed away, i.e. at the moment of conversion. But as the Dean of Peterborough has shewn in the Expositor, Vol. vii. pp. 261–263, this strict use of the aorist cannot be always pressed in Hebraistic Greek.
behold, all things are become new] Many MSS., versions and recent editors omit ‘all things.’ The passage then stands ‘behold, they are become new.’ If we accept this reading, the passage speaks more clearly of a conversion of the whole man as he is, thoughts, habits, feelings, desires, into the image of Christ. The old is not obliterated, it is renovated. As it stands in the A.V. it relates rather to a substitutionof a new nature for the old. Isaiah 43:18-19; Revelation 21:5.Cambridge
Conclusion: Bible Basics 101- In summary we become to be in Christ when we believe and are given the Holy Spirit after placing our faith in the gospel message of our salvation. No one is in Christ prior to hearing, believing the gospel. Then we are given the Holy Spirit and are sealed in Him. Faith comes before being in Christ, then we are given the Holy Spirit and we become the children of God
hope this helps !!!.
What a waste of typing skills.
In Ephesians 1, the "you" are not chosen because they were faithful.
In John 6 they are not drawn because they heard and learned from the Father.
Word count does not change the fact you cannot prove your erroneous presuppositions and your exegetical skills are non-existent.
civic
Well-known member
Projecting a wasted reply showing your eisegesis skills again. Mine was contextual and exegetical.
Actually it was neither. It was a cobbled up mess which does not even begin to prove your premises.
FAIL
civic
Well-known member
Projecting again
All Calvinists have a dirt poor understanding concerning who exactly is Paul's audience. Calvinists can't even get that straight because if they did they would realize that Paul is talking to faithful Christians and not to Hindus who believe in Caste Systems. Calvinist grammar skills are just atrocious.
