Bump for civic
When are believers in Christ ?
- Thread starter civic
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civic
Well-known member
nope false once again with your eisegesis. Here is what it actually says with a time stamp when " YOU WERE INCLUDED BELOW " when they heard the gospel and believed it as per Ephesians 1:13-14
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
Conclusion: the 2 times when is used that tells us exactly at what time they became “ In Christ “. The order sequence is below spelled out in the passage
1- when they believed the gospel
2- then were sealed with the Holy Spirit
3- the result is they were placed in Christ after believing the gospel and indwelt with the Holy Spirit- regenerated , born again, converted , became a new creation in Christ etc
hope this helps !!!
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Who is the "you" that was chosen in verse 4?
Verse 13 "In Him", what follows occurs in Him which logically how it must be since God's choice occurred from the foundation of the world.
Good effort though
civic
Well-known member
They are those who are already the faithful in Christ in verse 1:1.
next strawman ?
hope this helps !!!
Sorry, nothing about faithfulness in verse 11.it says nothing about faithfulness being the cause of anything. Its descriptive not perceptive.
Now, who is the "you" that is chosen from the foundation of the world in verse 4.
civic
Well-known member
Sorry verse 1:1 is the starting point for all that follows. Just like John 1:1 is the starting point for all the follows in the gospel of John.
next strawman
Ya, and? Where does it say the reason you are chosen is because of faithfulness???
Hint: it doesn't.
Who is the "you" in verse 4?
civic
Well-known member
So the "you" are not indiduaks?no one is chosenas individuals, we are in the chosen/elect One who is Christ.
How about the "you" in 2 Thess. 2:13?
"You" is Paul's audience who Paul is talking to, whether in Ephesus or in Thessaloniki. They are obviously human individuals, you know: human beings. You've heard of them, right?So the "you" are not indiduaks?
How about the "you" in 2 Thess. 2:13?
More specifically, they are those who came to faith in Christ. There is nothing in Paul's writings to even suggest that your mythical calvinist elect caste system exists in one form or another. We are not Hindus.
The sooner you realize that, the better for you.
civic
Well-known member
Yep you is the church at Ephesus. It flew right over his head lol."You" is Paul's audience who Paul is talking to, whether in Ephesus or in Thessaloniki. They are obviously human individuals, you know: human beings. You've heard of them, right?
More specifically, they are those who came to faith in Christ. There is nothing in Paul's writings to even suggest that your mythical calvinist elect caste system exists in one form or another. We are not Hindus.
The church is chosen in the Elect One ( Christ ) to be holy and faithful.
Is he talking to individuals? LOL"You" is Paul's audience who Paul is talking to, whether in Ephesus or in Thessaloniki. They are obviously human individuals, you know: human beings. You've heard of them, right?
More specifically, they are those who came to faith in Christ. There is nothing in Paul's writings to even suggest that your mythical calvinist elect caste system exists in one form or another. We are not Hindus.
civic
Well-known member
So what. Man your trying real hard. Try harderNope 3 John and Philemon are letters talking to individuals
Oops
Next
civic
Well-known member
Says desperado
Do you know the difference between an individual and a group ?
The church and an individual ?
Between singular and plural ?
Basic English grammar ?
Yup, groups are made up of individuals.Says desperado
Do you know the difference between an individual and a group ?
The church and an individual ?
Between singular and plural ?
Basic English grammar ?
The church is made up of individual believers.
A football team is a team of individual players. Pretty elementary.
Paul is talking to human beings who have already come to faith in Christ. Only those who believe in Christ are positioned in Christ. To think otherwise is to be a Hindu and to go against every Bible verse imaginable.
civic
Well-known member
yep its definitely not in the bible the doctrine he believes.
Human beings are individuals.
"Only those who believe in Christ are positioned in Christ"..
False for two reasons
1) The choice is made from the foundation of tge world.
2) Yout premise is NOWHERE taught in scripture.
Read:
(Eph 2:6) and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
and:
(Eph 1:3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,
I'll repeat the phrase again: "in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus". What does that phrase mean to you, if anything?
