Augustine was much like Nicodemus, a very confused religionist, until God quickeded him to life, and over the years made many corrections to his teachings, to where he became one of the great men after the apostles and before the Reformation.Says the guy who says Augustine was influenced by Islam 300 years before Islam existed?
When are believers in Christ ?
- Thread starter civic
- Start date
Tom: What is fatalism
Fatalism is a philosophical doctrine that emphasizes the idea that all events, including human actions, are predetermined and inevitable. It is often associated with the concept of fate or destiny, suggesting that the course of events is already set and cannot be changed.Key Characteristics
- Acceptance: Fatalists accept whatever happens as having been bound or decreed to happen.
- Belief in a binding or decreeing agent: Fatalism often implies the existence of a higher power, such as God or Fate, that determines the outcome of events.
- Resignation: Fatalists may adopt a resigned attitude towards the future, feeling that their actions are futile in the face of an inevitable outcome.
They are called the Absoluters "among" the Primitive Baptist. I truly do not know enough about them to discuss them in depth, yet have met some of them over the years. Some of my friends have been converted out of them. I'll say no more, because of my lack of knowledge concerning all that they teach.
“Absoluters” Excommunicated in 1652
The following excerpt comes from the minutes of a Baptist Church in Huntingdomshire England in the year 1652. It records the exclusion of two church members for five reasons. The fourth reason info…
marchtozion.com
1689 Baptist Confession Chapter 3: Of God's Decree - Commentary
What does it mean that God is sovereign? Does God control all things? Does God ordain and is sovereign even over sin? What about election? Does God choose who goes to Heaven and who goes to Hell? Did God predestine because He saw what was going to come to pass? Does it matter what we do? Does...
Last edited:
Once again, you display for all to see your atrocious reading comprehension. Let's revisit what I wrote:Says the guy who says Augustine was influenced by Islam 300 years before Islam existed?
Notice that's in the mind of Calvin that that Augustine and Islamic heresies merge.
Start taking English class lessons and only then can we continue our conversations. Ok?
civic
Well-known member
Two peas in a pod with their views with a deterministic / fatalistic god.Once again, you display for all to see your atrocious reading comprehension. Let's revisit what I wrote:
Notice that's in the mind of Calvin that that Augustine and Islamic heresies merge.
Start taking English class lessons and only then can we continue our conversations. Ok?
I could quote Islam and most would think I was quoting Calvin or Augustine
Read 2 Th 2:13 that proclaims that election onto salvation is through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. That proves that Election onto Salvation is Conditional.
(2 Th 2:13) But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,
Basically, God saves those who believe. It's as simple as that.
(1 Cor 1:21) "For since, in the wisdom of God, the world by wisdom did not know God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save those who believe."
Also Rom 10:9: "Because if you confess the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved."
Read John 1:12 which explains that which must be done (i.e.: belief in Christ) before the events of John 1:13
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:
13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Another stupid thing to say. Now you know the mind of Calvin who has been for 500 years.Once again, you display for all to see your atrocious reading comprehension. Let's revisit what I wrote:
Notice that's in the mind of Calvin that that Augustine and Islamic heresies merge.
Start taking English class lessons and only then can we continue our conversations. Ok?
Keep going genius, your on a roll.
Most of the ignorant, sure. Blind teaching the blindTwo peas in a pod with their views with a deterministic / fatalistic god.
I could quote Islam and most would think I was quoting Calvin or Augustine
The bible clearly tells men to chose who they will serve
Joshua 24:14–24 (NASB 2020) — 14 “Now, therefore, fear the LORD and serve Him in sincerity and truth; and do away with the gods which your fathers served beyond the Euphrates River and in Egypt, and serve the LORD. 15 But if it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served, which were beyond the Euphrates River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.” 16 The people answered and said, “Far be it from us that we would abandon the LORD to serve other gods; 17 for the LORD our God is He who brought us and our fathers up out of the land of Egypt, from the house of slaves, and did these great signs in our sight and watched over us through all the way in which we went and among all the peoples through whose midst we passed. 18 The LORD drove out from before us all the peoples, even the Amorites who lived in the land. We also will serve the LORD, for He is our God.” 19 Then Joshua said to the people, “You will not be able to serve the LORD, for He is a holy God. He is a jealous God; He will not forgive your wrongdoing or your sins. 20 If you abandon the LORD and serve foreign gods, then He will turn and do you harm and destroy you after He has done good to you.” 21 And the people said to Joshua, “No, but we will serve the LORD.” 22 So Joshua said to the people, “You are witnesses against yourselves that you have chosen for yourselves the LORD, to serve Him.” And they said, “We are witnesses.” 23 “Now then, do away with the foreign gods which are in your midst, and incline your hearts to the LORD, the God of Israel.” 24 And the people said to Joshua, “We will serve the LORD our God and obey His voice.”
and to choose life
Deuteronomy 30:11–20 (NASB 2020) — 11 “For this commandment which I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it far away. 12 It is not in heaven, that you could say, ‘Who will go up to heaven for us and get it for us, and proclaim it to us, so that we may follow it?’ 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, that you could say, ‘Who will cross the sea for us and get it for us and proclaim it to us, so that we may follow it?’ 14 On the contrary, the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may follow it. 15 “See, I have placed before you today life and happiness, and death and adversity, 16 in that I am commanding you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways and to keep His commandments, His statutes, and His judgments, so that you may live and become numerous, and that the LORD your God may bless you in the land where you are entering to take possession of it. 17 But if your heart turns away and you will not obey, but allow yourself to be led astray and you worship other gods and serve them, 18 I declare to you today that you will certainly perish. You will not prolong your days in the land where you are crossing the Jordan to enter and take possession of it. 19 I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have placed before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants, 20 by loving the LORD your God, by obeying His voice, and by holding close to Him; for this is your life and the length of your days, so that you may live in the land which the LORD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them.”
'
No, all the sources are with me. They are not synonymous terms as I brilliantly pointe out. No reputable philosopher would claim they are.
Your claim is bogus
NOWHERE does the Bible teach you choose to be chosen. Another bogus claim
Um this was/is proof
.
Ephesians 1:13 (NASB 2020) — 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of the promise,
you seem to be in denial
God saves (choses) those who choose to believe
1 Corinthians 1:21 (NASB 2020) — 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
The salvation predominantly under consideration here is from the delusions of the man of sin.... for we want to understand Paul in his context of the strong delusions and lies of Satan. You men yank scriptures out of their context to go after their sound bites in order to seemly give you lying doctrine some support, but we will not allow you to do this on our watch.
It is election ~ God’s choice ~ that delivers us from Satan and the lies of false religion.
The sanctification of the Spirit is that washing of regeneration that gives us new hearts. Belief of the truth does follow regeneration and is brought forth by gospel preaching~As we will show in another verse you badly misunderstood. I tis a biblical truth that no man is able to deliver his own soul from lies ~ only the Lord can do it (Isaiah 44:18-20).
Now your sheep clothing is being seen for what it is~pure Arminianism. "Conditional" is the word that wolves hide until you begin to strip them down to reveal their true character. The following scriptures are not in wolves vocabulary.....
Romans 9:16
“So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.”
This is the conclusion from the verses 6-15. Salvation is not from the will of man, nor from his efforts in striving for it, but is entirely of God’s mercy vouchsafed to whom He pleases. What foundation, then, can be discovered by you in the word of God for those schemes of self-righteousness, which, in a greater or less degree, make salvation depend on man’s own exertions, thereby by conditions put forth?
Since you men oppose the declaration of the Apostle, that it is not of him that willeth or of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy, and assert that the salvation of man depends on conditions which he is obliged to fulfill, then may I asked, what is the condition? Is it faith? Faith is the gift of God~per Philippians 1:28,29 Is it repentance? Christ is exalted a Prince and a Savior to give repentance. Is it love? God promises to circumcise the heart in order to love Him. Are they good works? His people are the workmanship of God created unto good works. Is it perseverance to the end? They are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation. It is true that all these things are commanded and enforced by the most powerful motives, consequently they are duties which require the exercise of our faculties. But they are assured by the decree of election, and are granted to the elect of God in the proper season; so that, in this view, they are the objects of God's promises and his oath~ and the effects of supernatural and Divine influence. "Thy people,’ saith Jehovah to the Messiah, " shall be willing in the day of Thy power.’ Thus the believer, in running his race, and working out his salvation, is actuated by God, and animated by the consideration of His all-powerful operation in the beginning of his course; of the continuation of His support during its progress; and by the assurance that it shall be effectual in enabling him to overcome all obstacles, and to arrive in safety at its termination. All of God's children said...AMEN, and AMEN.
You never address what I asked of you:
All you did was quoted 1st Corinthians 1:21~btw, thank you doing doing so, it helps me to expose you for what you are worth, which is not very much.
So. let us consider this precious scripture that you are trying to hijack and put in among your worthless teachings, to abuse it purpose as to why Paul spoke these words. Mr. Thief, you have no clue as to the sense of this verse, (and a thousand others) none whatsoever.
Let us put two scriptures side by side from 1st Corinthians 1, shall we to help others (I so far do not believe you have any desire to see, your pride will not allow you to see) to see the truth therein.
1st Corinthians 1:18
“For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.” This verse said the very exact same thing as Romans 1:16, remember that, we may come back to later.
1st Corinthians 1:21
“For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.”
Two more scriptures I think would be good.
Briefly~it is a fact that the gospel is foolishness to all who are not called (inwardly) by it. To the Jews Christ's gospel was a stumbling block, for they would not let go of Moses for Christ. Those who are called by the Spirit of the Living God to enjoy the blessings of the gospel they see the power of God in the preaching of it, how God can be just, yet justifying wicked sinners through the faith and obedience of his Son, who acted as their surety before the law of God.
Now to the verse you quoted: (1 Cor 1:21) "For since, in the wisdom of God, the world by wisdom did not know God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save those who believe."
The only sense one can put upon 1st Corinthians 1;21 is this: God chose the preaching of the word of God to save (in a practical sense, practical, I means from irgonance to true understanding; from the love of this world to cause them to love God; from false prophets to see and know the truth, etc., etc.) them THAT BELIEVE, or already born of God, yet needing a salvation, or deliverance, from many other things other than from sin and condemnation! Your mind went the wrong direction when you saw the word save!
Remember I said 1st Corinthians 1:18 is saying the exact same things as Romans 1:16?
The gospel is only the power of God TO BELIEVERS, to everyone else it is pure foolishness. Beside, verse 17 tells us that the truths of the gospel can only be revealed from a person who has faith, to another person who has faith, impossible to reveal its truths to a person unregenerate, impossible. God's righteousness that he has provided for, and christ has secured for each and every person given to him is revealed from to faith!
I'll come back and show just how much you corrupted John 1:12,13 just as you do other scriptures unto your own destruction.
That is laughable as all philosphy sources quoted noted determinism is theitsic fatalism
So in your mind John is a wolf in asheep's clothing?
John 3:36 (NASB 2020) — 36 The one who believes in the Son has eternal life; but the one who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.”
belief/faith is a condition
See also
John 20:31 (NASB 2020) — 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that by believing you may have life in His name.
Last edited:
civic
Well-known member
Yep
Belief is granted by God however. God is the primary cause of your brlief.
No they don't
Your cherry picked ones perhaps. Not a reputable one..
Fatalism and determinism are not synonymous terms.
