Ezra
Well-known member
he was not murdered eh gave up at the Ghost in his time frame not mankind it is finished/ the price/payment for our sins was paid for the whosoever will/shall
What is regeneration?
- Thread starter civic
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Ezra
Well-known member
curious did someone hold aa gun to your head saying you better get saved.. ?
More boring Calvinist Strawmen. Nobody here claims any credit for Christ's atonement.
The only merit possible is Christ's merit which we inherit when we are positioned "in Christ", which is possible only when we believe "in Christ". It's Calvinists who push their Elitist Election merits who are in the wrong.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
@civic
We can have a good conversation concerning this. I respect both of you when it comes to your commitment to declaring God's Son.
My position is that the new birth has been from the begin. The truth of this is largely lost because of man's sin and many abandonments of God throughout history. The narrative that remains is written thousands of years of the facts of Adam and Eve's first descendent. We do know that Abel committed to the bloody religion of sacrificial offerings while Caan rejected such to the point of murdering his only brother. Abel was righteous. The narrative from that point forwards is limited. We have only a few references of righteousness before flood. However, one of them is of Enoch. The 7th from Adam.
We know from Jude that Enoch called Jesus "Lord". Which fits Paul requirement for the new birth.
Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
We also know that Abraham foresaw the Resurrection of Christ.
Heb 11:19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
To be clear, I'm not saying that the actually manifestation of the "King of kings and Lord of Lords" didn't change things. It did. To make a point of this, it is clear that the writer of Hebrews declares that the faith of old could not be made perfect without us.
Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
However, this perfection is not a reference to some "perfection" relative to the "new birth". It is still yet a promise to be fulfilled yet future for all the faithful in Christ.
Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
The finisher of our faith is not finished with His work.
Heb 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.
I hope you can see my position clearly in the words I've written and the Scriptures I've referenced. I look forward to your response.
As far as "new spirit"... it certain is new to whomever it is that has received it.
The wholesale apostasy of mankind throughout history has resulted in man once again to become RE-acquainted with the Gospel. It is not new in that it was only just referenced or purposed. It is new in the fact that man has forgotten. It is new to each and every generation. Relative to Israel, God had long divorced Israel because of "her" unfaithfulness. Like every "Gentile" generation of man upon the earth, Israel had become "uncircumcised" in spirit.
Either way, this doesn't change the fact that regeneration isn't what the Calvinist claims it is.
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The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Oh, all you free-willers do just that. What makes you different from an unsaved person? You chose, of your own free will to believe, and he chose wrongly. Therefore you are the better man. You can claim the credit for being the hinge and turning point of your own salvation, thus stealing that Glory from God.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
I agree that the disciples were not but they were clean and taught by God (Jesus Christ)
Christ had the power to forgive sins on earth.
The Spirit of God was confined in Christ's earthly body at His baptism.
Even though Peter was filled with Spirit, he made a mistake in appointing Mathias.
Even the new birth doesn't empart unlimited knowledge (I know we agree). This is just another why it is silly for a Calvinist to claim they've been imparted "spiritual ears" to know special things before they can be saved. Even the new birth creates a child that can't even help himself. We become babies in the new birth.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
You didn't chose God of your own free will? Can you explain in detail how your experience eliminates your own choice?
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
I agree. They were murders in that they murdered Him in their hearts. They killed Stephen for recognize it.
Act 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
Unlink Calvinists, we take heed of verses such as John 8:24 and act accordingly.
24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”
Calvinists instead choose to remain inert as a rock. Tell us how that works out for you.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
I'm not a Calvinist, but It worked out fine for me. And I cannot take any credit for my salvation. The Glory is God's alone. Praise God!
Tell us how it worked out for if you did not take heed of verses such as John 8:24 but instead you stayed inert as a rock.
Neither do I.
Absolutely.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
The elect don't say inert. I read the Bible as an atheist. I wasn't impressed. I was "inert", as you put it (a poor choice of words, but for your sake I'll go with it). God changed me. God opened my eyes to the truth.
So you say, but you definitely take credit for your salvation. The difference between you and the unsaved is you made the right choice of YOUR OWN free will. That's YOU. You take credit.
Yes, but you claim some of the glory for yourself, no matter how many times you deny it. Synergy means salvation is part God, part you.
So you did nothing like repenting of your sins but instead you waited as a rock to be zapped from above. Therefore the slogan of your Evangelism 101 class says "Stay Inert, Do Nothing, Wait for the Zapping".
What part of "nether do I" do you not understand?
Last time I checked, I still cannot regenerate myself. So all credit goes to God.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
I agree completely. Salvation is of the Lord. No one deserves anything.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
The part where you say you chose to accept the Gospel of YOUR OWN free will. That's YOU.
Except according to free-willism, the regeneration happens AFTER YOU YOU YOU YOU make the decision of YOUR OWN FREE WILL. You can deny it until the cows come home, but everyone with any sense knows you credit yourself for the hinge and turning point of your salvation.
How, in your convoluted thinking, can someone who accepts a gift get any credit for that gift? Last time I checked I cannot regenerate myself. So how can I possibly take any credit for my regeneration? Your strawman is getting really boring.
Carry on with your Stay Inert, Do Nothing, Wait for the Zapping slogan.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
You carry on. We all know.
"We all know" and see that your total inability to offer any counterargument to my statements confirms that all your strawmen have crashed and burned.
Carry on with your Stay Inert, Do Nothing, Wait for the Zapping slogan.
Rockson
Well-known member
It is such a strange religious paradigm they have. Really what need would there even be to go out and give a gospel message. If God even imparts desire through irresistible grace why not just impart the desire to go to church where they can hear the message.
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