How can you say your belief has no merit when it's places you in Christ?
What is regeneration?
- Thread starter civic
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No worries, neither does he.
Complete
Well-known member
Jesus answered, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee,
Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit,
he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
(Joh 3:5)
'He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said,
out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
(But this spake He of the Spirit,
which they that believe on Him should receive:
for the Holy Ghost was not yet given;
because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)'
(Joh 7:38-39)
Hello @civic,
Thank you for your OP. I agree with your findings.
What I want to share with you is what I found last night in the book 'The Figures of Speech used in The Bible', by E. W. Bullinger, regarding your 4th point (above) 'water and spirit'.
There is a figure of speech in this verse, called Hendiadys, in which two things are referred to, but only one thing is meant, and should be understood in this way:- 'Except a man be begotten of water, yes - and spiritual water too, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God'. That spiritual water stands, for the Holy Spirit Himself: is clear from John 7:38-39 (above).
I find it sad that the thread has degenerated as it has, but thank you for starting it.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
I'm reading all the posts from the latest to the first ones that I have not read yet, to get caught up. I glanced over many yesterday and will answer a few short ones now, more later.
What need you asked? The same need and desire that motivated Paul that pushed him to want to go to Spain.
Brother, the salvation Paul desire for others to obtain would have been their practical salvation in coming to the knowledge of the truth which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Salvation is used in at least five senses in the scriptures and unless we differentiate between each one we shall end up holing error on some important truths. This subject has been covered by men of God in past. Briefly I will only said this for now. Let me ask you a question~When were you saved? Ever had that question asked to you before~I have, and probably many others have also.
This common question tries to pin eternal life down to some act at some point in time. Is this Biblical? Did the apostles ever ask this question? How would they answer such a question? Weren’t we all saved at the cross?
Let’s ask Paul the question.
Paul said he was saved before the world began (2nd Timothy 1:9), when Jesus came into the world (Ist Timothy 1:15), when the Spirit regenerated him (Titus 3:5), when he took heed to himself and the doctrine (Ist Timothy 4:16), and would be saved sometime in the future (Romans 13:11).Can you believe it? Paul clearly mentions five different stages or phases of salvation. And this is the key to understanding our wonderful salvation in Jesus Christ.
Since God saves sinners in stages, or phases, we must not limit salvation to just one idea or one event at one time. Paul saw his own salvation occurring in five phases.
It used to be called the Ordo Salutis of salvation, which means the order of salvation; but it is not studied or preached much any more. We live in the perilous times of the last days, when men no longer want sound doctrine preached to them (2nd Timothy 3:1 – 4:4). They prefer fables over truth, so the true doctrine of salvation has been almost lost from the earth.
Everyone talks about “getting saved,” but no one can explain it from the Bible. There are “invitations” and “decisions” and “methods” for salvation, but none of these words or ideas are from the Bible.
Paul clearly taught five phases of salvation. Let us consider the five phases briefly.
The ETERNAL PHASE is God’s plan and choice from eternity to allow sin into the world and to save His elect from it. Since He is eternal and sovereign, God planned in eternity all that He does in time. There are no surprises to God. He planned to allow sin, so that He could display His glorious grace in saving His elect from it and displaying His power and wrath on the rest.
The LEGAL PHASE is God’s work to satisfy His holy nature and perfect justice for the salvation of His elect. Because every sin must be punished, He sent a Substitute to die for their sins. His perfect holiness and justice cannot overlook sins and acquit wicked men. He must punish their sins in Another, even Jesus Christ. And this He did at the crucifixion of Jesus Christ 2000 years ago.
The VITAL PHASE is God’s application of these benefits to us personally and individually. Though He planned to save us from eternity and legally did so with Christ’s death on the cross, we still have a depraved and wicked nature at enmity with Him. So He regenerates us into a new life by His Spirit and gives us a new heart that loves Him and righteousness. This is being born again, and it is done entirely by the power of God sometime during our lives.
The PRACTICAL PHASE is our response to His salvation. He sends His Spirit into our hearts, and we cry “Abba, Father.” With new hearts from regeneration, we seek the truth and love it when we hear it. We hear the gospel, and we believe it. We want to be baptized to show Him our love. We want to know more of what we can do to please Him, and we gratefully cherish all His promises, which give us comfort and peace now.
The FINAL PHASE is that great day in the future when we shall be declared the sons of God to the whole universe and enter heaven for eternity. Our bodies will be raised from graves and glorified into new spiritual bodies, and we will be thoroughly purged from all sin to be perfectly holy in His presence forever. This great conclusion to the plan of salvation is yet in the future.
https://www.gracegems.org/Pink2/a_fourfold_salvation.htm Also, John Gill's sermon from Titus 3 maintaining good works.
We believe in evangelizing God's way, not D.L Moody's and Billy Graham's, and Jimmy Swaggart's method.
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Amen.
Sir, with all due respect, what I have read, you have not even come close ~ to me, that's wishful thinking on your part.
Before I address your post, let me ask you do carefully give me your understanding on God's foreknowledge so there will be no misunderstanding between us before I start answering you.
We grant God knew all that ever was, is, or shall be, but we deny that God did elect to life any for anything he did foresee in them; for if God should look out of himself to anything in the creature, upon which his will may be determined to elect, were against his all sufficiency, as if he should get knowledge from things we do, implies an imperfection of knowledge, and of will, if he should see something in us before he can determine, as if God were in suspense, saying, I will choose this man if he will, I will upon foresight of fulfilling my condition absolutely choose him. To say, I will elect, if they believe, is a conditional election, and if they can do this without God, then God is not omnipotent; if they say, he will give them faith to believe, then it is all one with an absolute will, as I elect to life, and I will give these faith; for whom he predestinated, them he efficaciously calls, etc.
It seems God wills our salvation, if we believe; that is, he wills the having a thing on a condition, that he will not work, and then it is impossible, unless the creature can do something that is good, which he will not do in him, or on a condition, which he will work, and then he works all he wills, or on such a condition as he sees the creature cannot perform, nor himself will not make him perform; and this is altogether frivolous.
Also to say God decreed to send Christ to save all, if they will believe, I see they neither will nor can, therefore I will condemn them. “They have not known nor understood; for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand.” Isaiah 44:18. God hath shut up all in unbelief, as, Romans 11:32, “therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, he hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.” John 12:39-40.
I'll wait to hear from you.
Rockson
Well-known member
Sure. I believe so.
Same towards you!
Sure. And the blood as a part of the atonement came from the knowledge from his parents. God slew an animal (a death with blood) and God gave them skins, a type of being clothed in righteousness. but my thought is it wasn't the true absolute righteousness of God in Christ but.....a promissory note for actual salvation.
I believe scripture tends to indicate they went to a place called Abraham's bosom. It was a place of bliss but not heaven. While the OT saints lived on earth they were considered servants of God but not sons. 1 Jn 3:2 says that NOW we are the Sons of God. They are now after the resurrection. Jesus went down to this place of paradise and led captivity captive. All OT saints ARE NOW born again in heaven. But my understanding is it wasn't until the blood of Jesus was shed that actual true righteousness was established.
I'd say sure Enoch called God Lord but I wouldn't say we can define that as meaning he had the fulness in the absolute sense of salvation.
I'd still not take that to mean before the resurrections righteous OT saints had the fulness of their salvation manifested. The promissory note of actual salvation I'd say was not legally allowed until the work of Christ was actually accomplished.
I wouldn't think that means however that he reaped the benefits of that until the actual resurrection, except a covering righteousness being laid up in his account. Our sins are now not merely covered but blotted and remitted. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.
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civic
Well-known member
Thanks !!!
I did say that we inherit Christ's merit when we are positioned "in Christ", which is possible only when we believe "in Christ".
The Calvinist Tribunal has spoken with no justification offered whatsoever.
So by your merit you inherit Christ's merit? It's your belief right? It did not come from God.
Of course everything good that we possess comes from God. Stop building strawmen. But it's up to us to appropriate those gifts in our lives. We must not stay inert, do nothing, nor wait for a Zapping.
Strawman? I'm just going by what you posted.
Doing something is not "saved by grace". It is not of "ourselves" as Paul puts it.
Time to play the victim?
I see no quote.
So you never repented of your sins? You just wait for the Zapping?
So you're ok with rendering judgment with no substantiation. Carry on.
You did not say you believe to be placed in Christ?
My repentance was granted or given by God like the Bible says.
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