What is regeneration?

[brightfame52]

Nope that’s not what John teaches in the passage .

Those who received Him during His Public Ministry were born of God

Jn 1:12-13

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Jhn 1:13

Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

[civic]

Those who received Him during His Public Ministry were born of God

Jn 1:12-13

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Jhn 1:13

Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Nope John is looking back on what occurred after Pentecost .

His own did not receive Him.

Next

 

[brightfame52]

Nope John is looking back on what occurred after Pentecost .

His own did not receive Him.

Next

Those who received Him during His Public Ministry were born of God

Jn 1:12-13

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Jhn 1:13

Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Jesus said some received His Words, they had to be born again Jn 17:8

For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

Now Jesus said they who hear His words are of God Jn 8:47

He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

 

[Studyman]

No one was born again until Pentecost according to Jesus and the Apostles as demonstrated in the OP. And the disciples did not understand the gospel until then.

No one was born again until Pentecost period. The disciples were not born again until Pentecost. Jesus taught and told them to tarry until Pentecost when the Holy Spirit would be with them and IN THEM. Not before Pentecost. It was at that time when they would be transformed inwardly by the power of the Holy Spirit working in them and through them. As Jesus told them it is better for you that I go away and send the Helper/Comforter who would lead them and guide them into all truth and bring to them remembrance of everything he had taught them. Until Pentecost they were still in hiding and fearful, carnal and in the flesh, not in the Spirit.

The disciples did not understand the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus which is the gospel. They did not believe it until they physically saw Jesus Resurrected from the dead.

But Zacharias did understand, and so did Simeon, and Anna, and Abraham and Noah and Caleb, and Shadrack. They were all "born again" and were given the Holy Spirit. It's right there in your own Bible.

Matthew 16:8-11
Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked, “You of little faith, why are you talking among yourselves about having no bread? 9 Do you still not understand? Don’t you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 10 Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 11 How is it you don’t understand that I was not talking to you about bread?

Mark 7:18
And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;

Mark 8:31-33
He then began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and after three days rise again. 32 He spoke plainly about this, and Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. 33 But when Jesus turned and looked at his disciples, he rebuked Peter. “Get behind me, Satan!” he said. “You do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”

Luke 9:43-45
While everyone was marveling at all that Jesus did, he said to his disciples, 44 “Listen carefully to what I am about to tell you: The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men.” 45 But they did not understand what this meant. It was hidden from them, so that they did not grasp it, and they were afraid to ask him about it.

Jesus predicts His death a 3rd time

Luke 18:31-34
Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, “We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled. 32 He will be delivered over to the Gentiles. They will mock him, insult him and spit on him; 33 they will flog him and kill him. On the third day he will rise again.” 34 The disciples did not understand any of this. Its meaning was hidden from them, and they did not know what he was talking about.

But Zacharias, Simeon, Anna, the Wise Men, Caleb, Abraham, Joshua, Abednego, did understand.

Luke 24:25-26
He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?

John 7:39
By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

John 12:16
At first His disciples did not understand these things, but after Jesus was glorified they remembered what had been done to Him, and they realized that these very things had also been written about Him.

John 13
Jesus replied, “You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand…. I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe that I am who I am.”

Jesus promised the disciples He would bring to their remembrance when Pentecost came and the Holy Spirit would be in them and guide them into all truth.

John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you

The Father gave the Comforter, the "Holy Ghost", to Zacharias, Simeon, Anna and Caleb, who also guided them into all truth. I posted God's Inspired Words which clearly show this, but you ignore them. Why would you do this?

John 16:7
"It is expedient for you that I go away; for if I go not away the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart I will send him unto you."

Before the Christ became a man, the "Holy Spirit" was given to the Faithful in like manner. I posted the Words of God which show this, but you ignore them.

John 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

Caleb, Abraham, Zacharias, Simeon and Anna were all enlightened by God's "Spirit of Truth", as His Holy Spirit told them "what is yet to come", concerning the Lord's Christ.

hope this helps !!!

Ignoring Scriptures that can't be used to justify a particular adopted religious philosophy helps no one. Preaching doctrines that can only stand if I erase God's Inspired Words, helps no one. Just the opposite, it deceives men, it hurts men, it misleads men if they listen to them.

This is why the "Jesus of the bible" warned so many times, about men who "Transform themselves" into Apostles of Christ.

It's OK, actually a mercy to be proven wrong by Scriptures, as they are for, in part, "Correction and Reproof". It's evil to continue to promote the wrong, even after the Scriptures exposed it as wrong.

 

[civic]

But Zacharias did understand, and so did Simeon, and Anna, and Abraham and Noah and Caleb, and Shadrack. They were all "born again" and were given the Holy Spirit. It's right there in your own Bible.



But Zacharias, Simeon, Anna, the Wise Men, Caleb, Abraham, Joshua, Abednego, did understand.






The Father gave the Comforter, the "Holy Ghost", to Zacharias, Simeon, Anna and Caleb, who also guided them into all truth. I posted God's Inspired Words which clearly show this, but you ignore them. Why would you do this?


Before the Christ became a man, the "Holy Spirit" was given to the Faithful in like manner. I posted the Words of God which show this, but you ignore them.


Caleb, Abraham, Zacharias, Simeon and Anna were all enlightened by God's "Spirit of Truth", as His Holy Spirit told them "what is yet to come", concerning the Lord's Christ.


Ignoring Scriptures that can't be used to justify a particular adopted religious philosophy helps no one. Preaching doctrines that can only stand if I erase God's Inspired Words, helps no one. Just the opposite, it deceives men, it hurts men, it misleads men if they listen to them.

This is why the "Jesus of the bible" warned so many times, about men who "Transform themselves" into Apostles of Christ.

It's OK, actually a mercy to be proven wrong by Scriptures, as they are for, in part, "Correction and Reproof". It's evil to continue to promote the wrong, even after the Scriptures exposed it as wrong.

Nowhere does it say anywhere they were born again , that’s nothing but your assumptions, presuppositions and man made doctrines you are reading into the Bible . In theology it’s called EISEGESIS. Poor hermeneutics on your part.

 

[Studyman]

Nope John is looking back on what occurred after Pentecost .

His own did not receive Him.

Next

Zacharias received Him. Abraham received Him. Simeon received Him. Anna received Him. And others as well.

Ps. 14: 4 Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up "my people" as they eat bread, and call not upon the LORD.

5 There were they in great fear: for God is in the generation "of the righteous".

6 Ye have shamed the counsel of the poor, because "the LORD is his refuge".

How do these Words Inspired by the Holy One of Israel, not describe Zacharias, Simeon, Caleb, Shadrack?

 

[civic]

Zacharias received Him. Abraham received Him. Simeon received Him. Anna received Him. And others as well.

Ps. 14: 4 Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up "my people" as they eat bread, and call not upon the LORD.

5 There were they in great fear: for God is in the generation "of the righteous".

6 Ye have shamed the counsel of the poor, because "the LORD is his refuge".

How do these Words Inspired by the Holy One of Israel, not describe Zacharias, Simeon, Caleb, Shadrack?

Diverting from context which is John 1.

 

[Studyman]

Nowhere does it say anywhere they were born again , that’s nothing but your assumptions, presuppositions and man made doctrines you are reading into the Bible . In theology it’s called EISEGESIS. Poor hermeneutics on your part.

Luke 1: 5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless. 67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, 68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, 69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70 As "he" spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

How is it Zacharias was given the Spirit of Truth, the Holy Spirit of God which taught Him the Truth of the Lord's Christ, was not born again?

Luke 2: 25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, "waiting for the consolation of Israel": and the Holy Ghost was upon him. 26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.

27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law, 28 Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said, 29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: 30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,

31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; 32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel. 33 And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him.

34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against; (As it is to this day) 35 (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.

How is Simeon not "Born again?" to receive God's Spirit of Truth, which revealed to him the life and death of the Lord's Christ, that even the Disciples didn't understand at first?

36 And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity; 37 And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day. 38 And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and "spake of him" to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.

How is Anna not a faithful born-again servant of God?

Or are you like the Pharisees and Calvinists who preach to the world that a man can't know God unless they omit the same Holy Scriptures that you omit.

The religion you have adopted has blinded you Civic, to the point of seeing the Scriptures here, but not being able to see them.

Instead of spending all your efforts trying to justify yourself, why not exhibit just a little bit of Humility, and consider that these Inspired Words of God are Truth as well.

 

[civic]

Luke 1: 5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless. 67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, 68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, 69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70 As "he" spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

How is it Zacharias was given the Spirit of Truth, the Holy Spirit of God which taught Him the Truth of the Lord's Christ, was not born again?

Luke 2: 25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, "waiting for the consolation of Israel": and the Holy Ghost was upon him. 26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.

27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law, 28 Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said, 29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: 30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,

31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; 32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel. 33 And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him.

34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against; (As it is to this day) 35 (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.

How is Simeon not "Born again?" to receive God's Spirit of Truth, which revealed to him the life and death of the Lord's Christ, that even the Disciples didn't understand at first?

36 And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity; 37 And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day. 38 And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and "spake of him" to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.

How is Anna not a faithful born-again servant of God?

Or are you like the Pharisees and Calvinists who preach to the world that a man can't know God unless they omit the same Holy Scriptures that you omit.

The religion you have adopted has blinded you Civic, to the point of seeing the Scriptures here, but not being able to see them.

Instead of spending all your efforts trying to justify yourself, why not exhibit just a little bit of Humility, and consider that these Inspired Words of God are Truth as well.

Nothing in those passages about being born again . Just more of your eisegesis at work and wishful thinking.

 

[civic]

Luke 1: 5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless. 67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, 68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, 69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70 As "he" spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

How is it Zacharias was given the Spirit of Truth, the Holy Spirit of God which taught Him the Truth of the Lord's Christ, was not born again?

Luke 2: 25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, "waiting for the consolation of Israel": and the Holy Ghost was upon him. 26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.

27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law, 28 Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said, 29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: 30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,

31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; 32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel. 33 And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him.

34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against; (As it is to this day) 35 (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.

How is Simeon not "Born again?" to receive God's Spirit of Truth, which revealed to him the life and death of the Lord's Christ, that even the Disciples didn't understand at first?

36 And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity; 37 And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day. 38 And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and "spake of him" to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.

How is Anna not a faithful born-again servant of God?

Or are you like the Pharisees and Calvinists who preach to the world that a man can't know God unless they omit the same Holy Scriptures that you omit.

The religion you have adopted has blinded you Civic, to the point of seeing the Scriptures here, but not being able to see them.

Instead of spending all your efforts trying to justify yourself, why not exhibit just a little bit of Humility, and consider that these Inspired Words of God are Truth as well.

Try believing Jesus teaching below about the Holy Spirit and His indwelling which began at Pentecost, not before as the scriptures below teach.

No one was born again until Pentecost period. The disciples were not born again until Pentecost. Jesus taught and told them to tarry until Pentecost when the Holy Spirit would be with them and IN THEM. Not before Pentecost. It was at that time when they would be transformed inwardly by the power of the Holy Spirit working in them and through them. As Jesus told them it is better for you that I go away and send the Helper/Comforter who would lead them and guide them into all truth and bring to them remembrance of everything he had taught them. Until Pentecost they were still in hiding and fearful, carnal and in the flesh, not in the Spirit.

The disciples did not understand the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus which is the gospel. They did not believe it until they physically saw Jesus Resurrected from the dead.

Matthew 16:8-11
Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked, “You of little faith, why are you talking among yourselves about having no bread? 9 Do you still not understand? Don’t you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 10 Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 11 How is it you don’t understand that I was not talking to you about bread?

Mark 7:18
And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;

Mark 8:31-33
He then began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and after three days rise again. 32 He spoke plainly about this, and Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. 33 But when Jesus turned and looked at his disciples, he rebuked Peter. “Get behind me, Satan!” he said. “You do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”

Luke 9:43-45
While everyone was marveling at all that Jesus did, he said to his disciples, 44 “Listen carefully to what I am about to tell you: The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men.” 45 But they did not understand what this meant. It was hidden from them, so that they did not grasp it, and they were afraid to ask him about it.

Jesus predicts His death a 3rd time

Luke 18:31-34
Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, “We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled. 32 He will be delivered over to the Gentiles. They will mock him, insult him and spit on him; 33 they will flog him and kill him. On the third day he will rise again.” 34 The disciples did not understand any of this. Its meaning was hidden from them, and they did not know what he was talking about.


Luke 24:25-26
He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?

John 7:39
By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

John 12:16
At first His disciples did not understand these things, but after Jesus was glorified they remembered what had been done to Him, and they realized that these very things had also been written about Him.

John 13
Jesus replied, “You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand…. I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe that I am who I am.”

Jesus promised the disciples He would bring to their remembrance when Pentecost came and the Holy Spirit would be in them and guide them into all truth.

John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you

John 16:7
"It is expedient for you that I go away; for if I go not away the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart I will send him unto you."

John 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Studyman]

Try believing Jesus teaching below about the Holy Spirit and His indwelling which began at Pentecost, not before as the scriptures below teach.

Civic, the Christ "of the Bible", and HIS Spirit existed from the foundation of the World. Your unbelief doesn't change that Biblical Truth.

John 8: 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

1 Peter 1: 10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied "of the grace that should come unto you": (The Gospel of Christ)

11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ "which was in them" did signify, "when it testified beforehand" the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

The popular religious philosophy of this world, that you have adopted and are now promoting to others, which teach that the "Holy Spirit" didn't exist before Christ became a man is a false gospel.

God's Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth, existed in Caleb, Noah, Abraham, Meshak, Zacharias, Simeon, Anna, Mary, John the Baptist and others. When the Christ, the Holy One of Israel became a man, God's Holy Spirit walked with men. Why do you insist on creating "another spirit"?

When the Christ ascended, HE promised that God's Spirit would still be available to those who obeyed God, as it was for the Faithful, like Zacharias and Simeon and Caleb, who had Faith in the Same Christ even before HE became a man. Just as Abraham did. And consider, the Church of God, under God's Prophesied Priest after a different Order, kept the Passover, and Feast of Unleavened Bread, and counted the Days correctly in Yielding themselves servants to obey God, as Paul instructs, and as a result of their respect and obedience to God, they were gathered on Feast of Weeks, AKA, Pentecost. And as promised, and confirmed by Peter in Acts 5:32, God gave His Spirit of Truth, the Holy Spirit to them, just as HE did to Abraham, and Caleb and Zacharias, and Simeon and Anna, and the Wise Men, who also obeyed God.

For you to further the false gospel that Abraham didn't become a "New Man", "born again" in his "Exodus" from his old self; "Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house", is foolishness. To preach to others that Caleb or Joshua or Zacharias didn't "Put on the New Man" or wasn't "born again", in their "Exodus" from the old man, "who was dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience", is simply untrue. I concede that your religion is Popular and seductive, among "many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord. But to preach that Abraham or Caleb or Zacharias were not "Born Again" is a falsehood.


The Bible doesn't teach anywhere that God's Spirit was not available to Faithful men until after Jesus came and was murdered. You preach this, Kenneth Copeland preaches this, Calvinists preach this, but the Holy Scriptures don't.

The Disciples didn't understand, or believe what was written, even when the Spirit of God walked with them. When the Christ was "glorified", and they "SAW" Him alive after HE was killed, they believed. But Zacharias, Simeon and Anna believed even before HE was born. You want to ignore this amazing truth about these faithful men, who were surrounded by children of the Devil who taught against God's Laws but stayed faithful to God. in order to defend and preserve your adopted religion. I escaped the snare you are trapped by, and therefore I can acknowledge and believe "Every Word" of God.

No one was born again until Pentecost period.

This is your own adopted, worldly religion, but it is a false gospel, according to what is actually written.

The disciples were not born again until Pentecost.

Yes, that doesn't mean Abraham or Caleb or David didn't repent and "put on the New Man" AKA, become "Born again".

Jesus taught and told them to tarry until Pentecost when the Holy Spirit would be with them and IN THEM. Not before Pentecost. It was at that time when they would be transformed inwardly by the power of the Holy Spirit working in them and through them.

Caleb was also transformed inwardly by the power of the Holy Spirit, in him and through him, in his Exodus. Abraham too. Zacharias and Simeon as well. And there were other men of Faith, as Hebrews 11 tells us, who were transformed inwardly by the power of the Spirit of God.

Num. 14: 24 But my servant Caleb, because he had "another spirit with him", "and hath followed me fully", him will I bring into the land whereinto he went; and his seed shall possess it.

Is this not the Holy Spirit?

This is why I left your religion Civic, because to be a member, I must reject and omit so much of the Words which proceed from the mouth of God. This would be in direct disobedience to the Jesus "of the Bible".

As Jesus told them it is better for you that I go away and send the Helper/Comforter who would lead them and guide them into all truth and bring to them remembrance of everything he had taught them. Until Pentecost they were still in hiding and fearful, carnal and in the flesh, not in the Spirit.

The disciples "did not understand the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus which is the gospel". They did not believe it until they physically saw Jesus Resurrected from the dead.

But Zacharias believed in the Christ, understood about his death and resurrection, Simeon as well, Anna as well, the Wise Men as well, and all before the Christ even became a man. All before they "physically saw" Jesus resurrect from the dead. And this because as Peter said, the Law and Prophets prophesied before of His Death and the Glory that would follow, and these faithful me believed.

You are free to preach that they were not given this understanding by the Holy Spirit that God gives to those who obey Him if you want. And you will most probably deflect, divert and move away from these undeniable Biblical Facts, in order to save face, and justify yourself.

Nevertheless, their stories are given to us, and I have no agenda to promote, which would cause me to disregard or ignore them, so I have no problem siting their Faith, which was greater than that of the Disciples early on.

 

[civic]

Civic, the Christ "of the Bible", and HIS Spirit existed from the foundation of the World. Your unbelief doesn't change that Biblical Truth.

John 8: 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

1 Peter 1: 10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied "of the grace that should come unto you": (The Gospel of Christ)

11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ "which was in them" did signify, "when it testified beforehand" the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

The popular religious philosophy of this world, that you have adopted and are now promoting to others, which teach that the "Holy Spirit" didn't exist before Christ became a man is a false gospel.

God's Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth, existed in Caleb, Noah, Abraham, Meshak, Zacharias, Simeon, Anna, Mary, John the Baptist and others. When the Christ, the Holy One of Israel became a man, God's Holy Spirit walked with men. Why do you insist on creating "another spirit"?

When the Christ ascended, HE promised that God's Spirit would still be available to those who obeyed God, as it was for the Faithful, like Zacharias and Simeon and Caleb, who had Faith in the Same Christ even before HE became a man. Just as Abraham did. And consider, the Church of God, under God's Prophesied Priest after a different Order, kept the Passover, and Feast of Unleavened Bread, and counted the Days correctly in Yielding themselves servants to obey God, as Paul instructs, and as a result of their respect and obedience to God, they were gathered on Feast of Weeks, AKA, Pentecost. And as promised, and confirmed by Peter in Acts 5:32, God gave His Spirit of Truth, the Holy Spirit to them, just as HE did to Abraham, and Caleb and Zacharias, and Simeon and Anna, and the Wise Men, who also obeyed God.

For you to further the false gospel that Abraham didn't become a "New Man", "born again" in his "Exodus" from his old self; "Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house", is foolishness. To preach to others that Caleb or Joshua or Zacharias didn't "Put on the New Man" or wasn't "born again", in their "Exodus" from the old man, "who was dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience", is simply untrue. I concede that your religion is Popular and seductive, among "many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord. But to preach that Abraham or Caleb or Zacharias were not "Born Again" is a falsehood.


The Bible doesn't teach anywhere that God's Spirit was not available to Faithful men until after Jesus came and was murdered. You preach this, Kenneth Copeland preaches this, Calvinists preach this, but the Holy Scriptures don't.

The Disciples didn't understand, or believe what was written, even when the Spirit of God walked with them. When the Christ was "glorified", and they "SAW" Him alive after HE was killed, they believed. But Zacharias, Simeon and Anna believed even before HE was born. You want to ignore this amazing truth about these faithful men, who were surrounded by children of the Devil who taught against God's Laws but stayed faithful to God. in order to defend and preserve your adopted religion. I escaped the snare you are trapped by, and therefore I can acknowledge and believe "Every Word" of God.



This is your own adopted, worldly religion, but it is a false gospel, according to what is actually written.



Yes, that doesn't mean Abraham or Caleb or David didn't repent and "put on the New Man" AKA, become "Born again".



Caleb was also transformed inwardly by the power of the Holy Spirit, in him and through him, in his Exodus. Abraham too. Zacharias and Simeon as well. And there were other men of Faith, as Hebrews 11 tells us, who were transformed inwardly by the power of the Spirit of God.

Num. 14: 24 But my servant Caleb, because he had "another spirit with him", "and hath followed me fully", him will I bring into the land whereinto he went; and his seed shall possess it.

Is this not the Holy Spirit?

This is why I left your religion Civic, because to be a member, I must reject and omit so much of the Words which proceed from the mouth of God. This would be in direct disobedience to the Jesus "of the Bible".




But Zacharias believed in the Christ, understood about his death and resurrection, Simeon as well, Anna as well, the Wise Men as well, and all before the Christ even became a man. All before they "physically saw" Jesus resurrect from the dead. And this because as Peter said, the Law and Prophets prophesied before of His Death and the Glory that would follow, and these faithful me believed.

You are free to preach that they were not given this understanding by the Holy Spirit that God gives to those who obey Him if you want. And you will most probably deflect, divert and move away from these undeniable Biblical Facts, in order to save face, and justify yourself.

Nevertheless, their stories are given to us, and I have no agenda to promote, which would cause me to disregard or ignore them, so I have no problem siting their Faith, which was greater than that of the Disciples early on.

none of them were "born again" - that began at Pentecost. Thanks once again for making my point and affirming I'm on the side of biblical truth.

the OT saints were saved by faith and were not born again.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Studyman]

none of them were "born again" - that began at Pentecost. Thanks once again for making my point and affirming I'm on the side of biblical truth.

the OT saints were saved by faith and were not born again.

hope this helps !!!

Like I said, you must deflect and get away from the Scriptures, and the Jesus "of the Bible" described therein to justify your religion. Same as the Calvinists, Catholics, and Pharisees. You are wrong about many things Civic. This is another false doctrine you are snared to promote.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man "be born again", he cannot see the kingdom of God.

9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, "and knowest not these things"? 11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, "and testify that we have seen"; and ye receive not "our" witness.

Nicodemus should have known that a man must "put on the New Man", AKA, "be born again", to see the Kingdom of God, not as an Armenian, or Calvinist, or Catholic, or Pharisee, all of which are religions, "Who profess to know God, but by their works deny Him. But as Paul teaches;

Eph. 4: 22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; (Like Abraham and Caleb) 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; (Like Zacharias and Simeon) 24 And that ye put on the new man, which "after God" is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Jesus exposes your preaching that "None of the Faithful examples God gave us in the Bible were "born again" before the Acts "Pentecost", as a false gospel throughout the Holy Scriptures, but no more glaring obvious than the Christ's words below.

Luke 13: 27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see "Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob", and all the prophets, "in the kingdom of God", "and you yourselves thrust out".

The Jesus "of the Bible" just said that NO MAN can see the Kingdom of God, unless he is "born Again".

I said Abraham was one of the Faithful, who Put on the New Man, AKA, was "Born again", like Zacharias and Caleb. But you preach to the world that "the OT saints were saved by faith and were not born again".

This is why I left your religion 30 years ago. You guys promote your own righteousness, your own manmade doctrines, and even when the Holy Scriptures expose the darkness in your religion, you work endlessly to defend it, Justify and continue to try and convince as many as you can to believe the Falsehoods you have adopted.

And why? Because you would need to be corrected in front of other men? Because you might be shown as NOT all knowing? This is why I don't jump on your bandwagon of condemning Calvinists. You are no different than them. A hypocrite religion judging others for doing the exact same thing you do.

Are you sorry? Will you be corrected? NO!!! You will just get mad at me for being the poor slob who showed God's actual Words to you, just like the mainstream preachers of Jesus' Time, were mad at Him for exposing them.

And of a Truth, it isn't me exposing the false gospel you have adopted, and are now promoting to others, It's the Word of God Himself.

But it doesn't have to be that way.

 

[civic]

Like I said, you must deflect and get away from the Scriptures, and the Jesus "of the Bible" described therein to justify your religion. Same as the Calvinists, Catholics, and Pharisees. You are wrong about many things Civic. This is another false doctrine you are snared to promote.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man "be born again", he cannot see the kingdom of God.

9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, "and knowest not these things"? 11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, "and testify that we have seen"; and ye receive not "our" witness.

Nicodemus should have known that a man must "put on the New Man", AKA, "be born again", to see the Kingdom of God, not as an Armenian, or Calvinist, or Catholic, or Pharisee, all of which are religions, "Who profess to know God, but by their works deny Him. But as Paul teaches;

Eph. 4: 22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; (Like Abraham and Caleb) 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; (Like Zacharias and Simeon) 24 And that ye put on the new man, which "after God" is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Jesus exposes your preaching that "None of the Faithful examples God gave us in the Bible were "born again" before the Acts "Pentecost", as a false gospel throughout the Holy Scriptures, but no more glaring obvious than the Christ's words below.

Luke 13: 27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see "Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob", and all the prophets, "in the kingdom of God", "and you yourselves thrust out".

The Jesus "of the Bible" just said that NO MAN can see the Kingdom of God, unless he is "born Again".

I said Abraham was one of the Faithful, who Put on the New Man, AKA, was "Born again", like Zacharias and Caleb. But you preach to the world that "the OT saints were saved by faith and were not born again".

This is why I left your religion 30 years ago. You guys promote your own righteousness, your own manmade doctrines, and even when the Holy Scriptures expose the darkness in your religion, you work endlessly to defend it, Justify and continue to try and convince as many as you can to believe the Falsehoods you have adopted.

And why? Because you would need to be corrected in front of other men? Because you might be shown as NOT all knowing? This is why I don't jump on your bandwagon of condemning Calvinists. You are no different than them. A hypocrite religion judging others for doing the exact same thing you do.

Are you sorry? Will you be corrected? NO!!! You will just get mad at me for being the poor slob who showed God's actual Words to you, just like the mainstream preachers of Jesus' Time, were mad at Him for exposing them.

And of a Truth, it isn't me exposing the false gospel you have adopted, and are now promoting to others, It's the Word of God Himself.

But it doesn't have to be that way.

You are the one projecting and deflecting ignoring Jesus teaching on the new birth and Pentecost.

I have proven your beliefs in the topic are in error and your pride keeps you from repenting and making false accusations against me. You resort to ad hominem attacks which is a sure sign of defeat. Attacking the person not the argument.

Hope this helps !!!