What is Pre-Millennialism?

[Truther]

Can we go point by point here?

Is the voice of Babylon heard after your claim of a 1000 year reign of Christ? Is it not heard when the nations join Satan to battle Christ?

Babylon is the RCC.(ecumenical Rome)

It is destroyed by the return of Christ as the stone hits the feet of the image of Daniel 2.

Rome is the world power of false Christendom, reaching her tentacles into all of her protestant daughters in some way shape or form.

She must be destroyed forever as an example of what God hated Christendom to eventually become.

She is a whore with billions of followers(including most protestants).

To take it further, the RCC is the first protestant.

She protested Peter and obeying Acts 2:38 in the 4th century....

 

[Johann]

You are avoiding the question. Did Jesus rule during the "physical" reign over these same people? The same people that joined Satan?

I don't see how you can claim that Jesus "ruled". On the contrary, Does Jesus RULE/REIGN in the hearts of His own?

I don't that you're actually dealing with this. Just stating various claims that don't really deal with the issue.

A common phenomena-
J.

 

[Truther]

The 4th kingdom per Daniel 2 is depicted as Rome.

Not the US, Russia, China or all combined.

The RCC is the thorn in the side of God's kingdom.

The rest are an afterthought.

God will attack Rome, make a 1000 year example out of her and the rest of the nations will fall like dominoes into His domain.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Jesus is now ruling the willing(satan loses rule over them).

Jesus will rule by force over everyone during his earthly reign.

Jesus will release satan to counter attack his rule before his demise.

Jesus does not co-rule with this guy(prince), ever....


Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience

In review, you are claiming in order for Christ to reign properly and fulfill the prophecies you've referenced, it requires a physical reign. Can you state exactly why it requires a physical reign?

As witnessed, The idea of his physical reign does not prevent opposition.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Babylon is the RCC.(ecumenical Rome)

It is destroyed by the return of Christ as the stone hits the feet of the image of Daniel 2.

Rome is the world power of false Christendom, reaching her tentacles into all of her protestant daughters in some way shape or form.

She must be destroyed forever as an example of what God hated Christendom to eventually become.

She is a whore with billions of followers(including most protestants).

To take it further, the RCC is the first protestant.

She protested Peter and obeying Acts 2:38 in the 4th century....

I would like to deal with how "Rome" is viewed in your theology. It is my "educated" opinion... The English empire is worthy of consideration.

They had their own "pope" in their various Kings/Queens/Bishops. They haven't always been a force for good. In fact, they murdered many innocent Americans. I don't see many differences in various "Empires".

To be clear. I am an American. I've traced my DNA and I'm like 82 percent English with a little northern Africa and Norwegian thrown in. I'm English by any definition. However, I must see things for what they are.

 

[Truther]

In review, you are claiming in order for Christ to reign properly and fulfill the prophecies you've referenced, it requires a physical reign. Can you state exactly why it requires a physical reign?

As witnessed, The idea of his physical reign does not prevent opposition.

I said nothing about Christ reigning properly. I said that the reign of Jesus Christ will increase. It starts with a reign in the spirit world, and ends in a physical reign over both material and spirit world. The Bible makes this crystal clear.

 

[Truther]

I would like to deal with how "Rome" is viewed in your theology. It is my "educated" opinion... The English empire is worthy of consideration.

They had their own "pope" in their various Kings/Queens/Bishops. They haven't always been a force for good. In fact, they murdered many innocent Americans. I don't see many differences in various "Empires".

To be clear. I am an American. I've traced my DNA and I'm like 82 percent English with a little northern Africa and Norwegian thrown in. I'm English by any definition. However, I must see things for what they are.

Rome is the fourth kingdom in Daniel chapter 2. It is the kingdom in place when Jesus comes to destroy all of man’s kingdoms. Rome is not a world power but an ecumenical power now. It is the pinnacle of deception per Christendom. It dictates nearly all doctrines that come from Christendom. A person must break away to understand this. Most Christians today are a product directly or indirectly of the Roman Catholic Church. It is the spiritual super power of the last days.

 

[Truther]

I bet you never thought of this.

Present tense..,

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: …his life on earth.

Future tense…

and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace….after resurrecting and during the millennial

 

[Truther]

The prince of peace is not just a nickname. He will bring peace on earth.

 

[PapaLandShark]

@PapaLandShark I apologize for PSA in your thread. I will not comment anymore in this thread on that topic. Let me know if you want those comments to be moved from your thread. Thanks !

If you could create another thread with the comments so they aren't lost that would be spiffy!

 

[civic]

If you could create another thread with the comments so they aren't lost that would be spiffy!

Thanks I'm not sure I need another thread on the topic there are plenty of them both for and against PSA.

 

[civic]

@PapaLandShark you have another calvinist brother that has your back @makesends

I'm in big trouble now haha

 

[e v e]

Babylon is the RCC.(ecumenical Rome)

It is destroyed by the return of Christ as the stone hits the feet of the image of Daniel 2.

Rome is the world power of false Christendom, reaching her tentacles into all of her protestant daughters in some way shape or form.

She must be destroyed forever as an example of what God hated Christendom to eventually become.

She is a whore with billions of followers(including most protestants).

To take it further, the RCC is the first protestant.

She protested Peter and obeying Acts 2:38 in the 4th century....

As I understand it...

babylon is this earth which per prophets is desolated; no one will pass here or remember it and

mystery babylon is the satanic realm in the other reality and

the pope/vatican is representative of mystery-babylon (m-b) on this earth

and eden paradise our earth which the sons will restore with Christ is in the other reality
not on this earth

 

[civic]

The prince of peace is not just a nickname. He will bring peace on earth.

Amen to that my friend.

 

[Truther]

As I understand it...

babylon is this earth which per prophets is desolated; no one will pass here or remember it and

mystery babylon is the satanic realm in the other reality and

the pope/vatican is representative of mystery-babylon (m-b) on this earth

and eden paradise our earth which the sons will restore with Christ is in the other reality
not on this earth

Babylon is Rome per Rev 18.

 

[PapaLandShark]

Er...we don't *know* who Babylon is. Reformed folks *assume* it is the RCC ( there is no love between Protestants of any stripe and the RCC if history has anything to say about it ) but the RCC doesn't exactly fit the bill. Don't get me wrong...I think the false prophet comes from the RCC. But Babylon seems more to be the re-iteration of one of Israel's ancient enemies. Whether by lineage or by "spirit". Anti-Christ comes out of Turkey or Iran. Many say Ukraine but that is too far north imoo.

We shall see. Just keep looking up.

 

[Truther]

Er...we don't *know* who Babylon is. Reformed folks *assume* it is the RCC ( there is no love between Protestants of any stripe and the RCC if history has anything to say about it ) but the RCC doesn't exactly fit the bill. Don't get me wrong...I think the false prophet comes from the RCC. But Babylon seems more to be the re-iteration of one of Israel's ancient enemies. Whether by lineage or by "spirit". Anti-Christ comes out of Turkey or Iran. Many say Ukraine but that is too far north imoo.

We shall see. Just keep looking up.

The RCC is definitely Babylon of Rev 18

 

[PapaLandShark]

The RCC is definitely Babylon of Rev 18

Based on? Use exegesis.

 

[Truther]

Based on? Use exegesis.

5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,
16 And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!
17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.
21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;
23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

 

[Truther]

...1sr century Rome.

AKA, the legs and feet of the image in Daniel 2.

AKA, ecumenical Rome per her evolution as an ecumenical power over Christendom.