What is a "Salvation Issue"?

[Doug Brents]

Yes it is, Reconciliation to God is solely by Christ 2 Cor 5:18-19

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

There are two sides to this, and both of them are correct.
1: Jesus' death and resurrection, by itself, is sufficient to cover the sin of every single person who has ever and will ever live. His gift is infinite, but our sin in finite. Even if our sin were a solid of the densest, hardest material the size of the whole universe, that were just a drop in the ocean of Jesus' forgiveness.
2: Only those who accept Jesus' forgiveness receive His forgiveness. He does not force His forgiveness on those who do not want it. None of us deserve His forgiveness, but we must do what He says leads to us receiving His forgiveness to get it.

No conditions, and there bet not be any conditions stipulated when one preaches the word of reconciliation

That turns it into a false gospel

What did Jesus say to the Church in Laodicea?
"Those whom I love, I rebuke and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me."
Jesus stands outside our heart, outside our life, and He is knocking on the door. IF, not when, but IF anyone hears His voice and opens the door (an action real or metaphorical) that man takes, then He will come in and have a restored, reconciled relationship with the one who opened the door. We can certainly close the door and keep Jesus out of our heart, and thus remain in condemnation for eternity.

What did Jesus say to Nicodemus? God loved the whole world so much that He gave His Son, so that anyone who has faith in Jesus will be saved from eternal death to eternal life.

There are so many more. We don't receive His forgiveness without any action on our part.

 

[brightfame52]

There are two sides to this, and both of them are correct.
1: Jesus' death and resurrection, by itself, is sufficient to cover the sin of every single person who has ever and will ever live. His gift is infinite, but our sin in finite. Even if our sin were a solid of the densest, hardest material the size of the whole universe, that were just a drop in the ocean of Jesus' forgiveness.
2: Only those who accept Jesus' forgiveness receive His forgiveness. He does not force His forgiveness on those who do not want it. None of us deserve His forgiveness, but we must do what He says leads to us receiving His forgiveness to get it.

What did Jesus say to the Church in Laodicea?
"Those whom I love, I rebuke and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me."
Jesus stands outside our heart, outside our life, and He is knocking on the door. IF, not when, but IF anyone hears His voice and opens the door (an action real or metaphorical) that man takes, then He will come in and have a restored, reconciled relationship with the one who opened the door. We can certainly close the door and keep Jesus out of our heart, and thus remain in condemnation for eternity.

What did Jesus say to Nicodemus? God loved the whole world so much that He gave His Son, so that anyone who has faith in Jesus will be saved from eternal death to eternal life.

There are so many more. We don't receive His forgiveness without any action on our part.

, Reconciliation to God is solely by Christ 2 Cor 5:18-19

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

This is forgiveness of sins, no conditions

 

[Doug Brents]

, Reconciliation to God is solely by Christ 2 Cor 5:18-19

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

This is forgiveness of sins, no conditions

You are focusing only on point one above. But point two is equally true, and without it we do not receive the forgiveness that Jesus offers. But we have exhausted this topic, because you still refuse to accept Scriptural truth.

 

[brightfame52]

You are focusing only on point one above. But point two is equally true, and without it we do not receive the forgiveness that Jesus offers. But we have exhausted this topic, because you still refuse to accept Scriptural truth.

Im focusing on the Truth of Salvation by Grace, not requirements. Reconciliation is unconditional, which is forgiveness of sins. The elect are reconciled, forgiven even while enemies Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

 

[Complete]

In this thread, I would like to explore how we should define the term "salvation issue". This is important in that it will set the foundation for exploring what Scripture says are the salvation issues, but I think we should set this definition first.

I would define it as "something that is an absolute requirement for receiving initial salvation from God."

Certainly there are things (like good works and fruit of the Spirit) that flow out of the life of one who has been saved. But how would you define the term "salvation issue"?

Hello @Doug Brents,

I have no 'issue' with SALVATION. It is a finished work, accomplished by the Lord Jesus Christ by His death and resurrection. God has reconciled the world unto Himself, and it is for each individual to receive the fruit of that reconciliation, which is peace with God: by coming to Him in simple faith in the efficacy of the sacrificial offering that the Lord Jesus Christ has made, by dying in our place; taking upon Himself the penalty for our sin, that we may be declared, 'not guilty' and receive the gift of life from God through Him.

His righteousness is ascribed to us, so that we may be the outward manifestation of the righteousness of God in Him. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them (Eph. 2:10).

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[brightfame52]

@Complete

Hello @Doug Brents,

I have no 'issue' with SALVATION. It is a finished work, accomplished by the Lord Jesus Christ by His death and resurrection. God has reconciled the world unto Himself, and it is for each individual to receive the fruit of that reconciliation, which is peace with God: by coming to Him in simple faith in the efficacy of the sacrificial offering that the Lord Jesus Christ has made, by dying in our place; taking upon Himself the penalty for our sin, that we may be declared, 'not guilty' and receive the gift of life from God through Him.

Hi so is the whole world reconciled to God by the accomplished Death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ before they receive it by Faith ?

 

[mailmandan]

Hello @Doug Brents,

I have no 'issue' with SALVATION. It is a finished work, accomplished by the Lord Jesus Christ by His death and resurrection. God has reconciled the world unto Himself, and it is for each individual to receive the fruit of that reconciliation, which is peace with God: by coming to Him in simple faith in the efficacy of the sacrificial offering that the Lord Jesus Christ has made, by dying in our place; taking upon Himself the penalty for our sin, that we may be declared, 'not guilty' and receive the gift of life from God through Him.

His righteousness is ascribed to us, so that we may be the outward manifestation of the righteousness of God in Him. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them (Eph. 2:10).

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Amen! Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. (Romans 3:24-28) No supplements needed.

 

[Doug Brents]

Hello @Doug Brents,

I have no 'issue' with SALVATION. It is a finished work, accomplished by the Lord Jesus Christ by His death and resurrection. God has reconciled the world unto Himself, and it is for each individual to receive the fruit of that reconciliation, which is peace with God: by coming to Him in simple faith in the efficacy of the sacrificial offering that the Lord Jesus Christ has made, by dying in our place; taking upon Himself the penalty for our sin, that we may be declared, 'not guilty' and receive the gift of life from God through Him.

His righteousness is ascribed to us, so that we may be the outward manifestation of the righteousness of God in Him. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them (Eph. 2:10).

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Let me ask you: What does Scripture say about when and how we are declared no guilty and receive His gift of life? Before you answer that, let me caution you to look at EVERY passage that speaks of salvation, forgiveness of sin, justification, and any other synonym for salvation you can think of, and combine together EVERY requirement stated, for if we exclude any of them then we make Scripture out to contain falsehoods or false information. Get back with me after you review EVERY ONE of these passages, and tell me when and how we are declared not guilty.

 

[Complete]

@Complete



Hi so is the whole world reconciled to God by the accomplished Death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ before they receive it by Faith ?

Hello @brightfame52,

God, in Christ Jesus, has done His part. The death and resurrection of Christ, has dealt both with sin and it's consequence. What is required of us, is to believe the gospel of God concerning His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, and come to God to receive both salvation from sin, and the gift of life which is ours by faith in the finished work of Christ.

The work of salvation is God's, it is He who brings a consciousness of sin, as we are exposed to the Word of God, and the knowledge within of our need of a Saviour. It is He who opens the mind to receive and believe the truth concerning the Lord Jesus Christ, God's only begotten Son: and to receive Him by faith as our Saviour and Lord. It is the Holy Spirit then who works in us and convicts us of sin and of righteousness, and He who, through the written word, brings the knowledge of the Living Word to us, and enables us to grow in grace and truth and in the knowledge of Him. All God's work: May His Name be praised.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[brightfame52]

@Complete

God, in Christ Jesus, has done His part.

So Gods part wasn't enough ? So if a person doesnt receive what God has done, Gods part comes to naught ?

 

[Complete]

Let me ask you: What does Scripture say about when and how we are declared no guilty and receive His gift of life? Before you answer that, let me caution you to look at EVERY passage that speaks of salvation, forgiveness of sin, justification, and any other synonym for salvation you can think of, and combine together EVERY requirement stated, for if we exclude any of them then we make Scripture out to contain falsehoods or false information. Get back with me after you review EVERY ONE of these passages, and tell me when and how we are declared not guilty.

Hello @Doug Brents,

I will not find the words, 'not guilty' in Scripture, for it is not expressed in those terms: but that is what God has done in Christ Jesus none the less. For Christ has taken upon Himself the guilt that was mine, and born it's penalty in my place, thus setting me free from the bondage of sin and death, by His death and resurrection.

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Complete]

@Complete

So Gods part wasn't enough ? So if a person doesn't receive what God has done, Gods part comes to naught ?

Hello @brightfame52,

Those words are not worthy of the God of all grace! God has opened up the way of salvation for all who will receive it.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Complete]

' The entrance of thy words giveth light;
it giveth understanding unto the simple.'
(Psa 119:130)

'So then faith cometh by hearing,
and hearing by the word of God.'
(Rom 10:17)

 

[Behold]

there are 2 main "salvation issues"..

1.) The Devil blinds the mind of unbelievers so that the glorious light of the Gospel of Jesus The Christ... does not shine into them . Their unbelief blocks the Light and the Devil is causing it. '"mind blindness"

2.) "Doctrines of Devils" that are created by the Devil's owned that teach that God forces you to believe or believes for you... or something like... "water washes away your sin".

So, these "doctrines of Devils' (Hebrews 13:9) are designed by demons to lead you into a "way" that "seems right to a man, but the end thereof is DEATH" and Hell.

 

[Complete]

There are two sides to this, and both of them are correct.
1: Jesus' death and resurrection, by itself, is sufficient to cover the sin of every single person who has ever and will ever live. His gift is infinite, but our sin in finite. Even if our sin were a solid of the densest, hardest material the size of the whole universe, that were just a drop in the ocean of Jesus' forgiveness.
2: Only those who accept Jesus' forgiveness receive His forgiveness. He does not force His forgiveness on those who do not want it. None of us deserve His forgiveness, but we must do what He says leads to us receiving His forgiveness to get it.

What did Jesus say to the Church in Laodicea?
"Those whom I love, I rebuke and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me."
Jesus stands outside our heart, outside our life, and He is knocking on the door. IF, not when, but IF anyone hears His voice and opens the door (an action real or metaphorical) that man takes, then He will come in and have a restored, reconciled relationship with the one who opened the door. We can certainly close the door and keep Jesus out of our heart, and thus remain in condemnation for eternity.

What did Jesus say to Nicodemus? God loved the whole world so much that He gave His Son, so that anyone who has faith in Jesus will be saved from eternal death to eternal life.

There are so many more. We don't receive His forgiveness without any action on our part.

'Behold, I stand at the door, and knock:
if any man hear My voice, and open the door,
I will come in to him,
and will sup with him, and he with Me.
(Rev 3:20)

Hello @Doug Brents,

There are many who use the verse above, as you have done, but it is not appropriate, for the call being made is to the wedding feast (ch.19:9 -
'And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. ...',) to which the parables pointed e.g., Luke 12:35-38- 'when He cometh and knocketh'. The Lord is not ever-knocking at the hearts of sinners.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Doug Brents]

I will not find the words, 'not guilty' in Scripture, for it is not expressed in those terms: but that is what God has done in Christ Jesus none the less. For Christ has taken upon Himself the guilt that was mine, and born it's penalty in my place, thus setting me free from the bondage of sin and death, by His death and resurrection.

That did not even come close to explaining when and how Scripture says this happens. Would you care to try again?

 

[Doug Brents]

'Behold, I stand at the door, and knock:
if any man hear My voice, and open the door,
I will come in to him,
and will sup with him, and he with Me.
(Rev 3:20)

Hello @Doug Brents,

There are many who use the verse above, as you have done, but it is not appropriate, for the call being made is to the wedding feast (ch.19:9 -
'And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. ...',) to which the parables pointed e.g., Luke 12:35-38- 'when He cometh and knocketh'. The Lord is not ever-knocking at the hearts of sinners.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

That is Scriptural contortionism at its best.
The only connection between Rev 19:9 (being invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb) and Rev 3:20 (the Lord knocking at the door of our hearts) is that those who answer the Lord's knock will be invited to the marriage supper. Those who do not open will not be invited.

And no, He is not "ever-knocking", but He does continue to knock repeatedly until this life is over. Once it is over, it is too late to answer His knock.

 

[Complete]

That did not even come close to explaining when and how Scripture says this happens. Would you care to try again?

Hello @Doug Brents,

No thank you, not at this time, but I will when I can. It will be a good study to embark on.

With love In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Doug Brents]

Hello @Doug Brents,

No thank you, not at this time, but I will when I can. It will be a good study to embark on.

With love In Christ Jesus
Chris

Yes, it took me two years (not full time) to research, read, compile, and analyze all of the passages that mention anything to do with being saved, and then weed out the ones that were not talking about eternal salvation, and then list the different things that are said to "lead to" (as opposed to "flow from") receiving salvation. But you are right, it was a very good and profitable study.

 

[brightfame52]

Hello @brightfame52,

Those words are not worthy of the God of all grace! God has opened up the way of salvation for all who will receive it.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

This is a reflection of what you posted, again:

So Gods part wasn't enough ? So if a person doesn't receive what God has done, Gods part comes to naught ?