What is a "Salvation Issue"?

[brightfame52]

Every word in that sentence except the two before the first comma are false, but we have had this discussion elsewhere, and this is not the place to pick it up again.

You don't believe and also his death will effect a conversion to serve him.

 

[Doug Brents]

You don't believe and also his death will effect a conversion to serve him.

Bright, if you are just here to argue, please don't. You believe what you believe, and even God's Word will not convince you of your false belief. But this discussion is not about your false belief. I am asking the question of what a salvation issue is of those who believe in the Biblical truth of salvation. You do not qualify to answer the question.

I would have preferred to say this in a private message, but you have that turned off.

 

[brightfame52]

Bright, if you are just here to argue, please don't. You believe what you believe, and even God's Word will not convince you of your false belief. But this discussion is not about your false belief. I am asking the question of what a salvation issue is of those who believe in the Biblical truth of salvation. You do not qualify to answer the question.

I would have preferred to say this in a private message, but you have that turned off.

You understand this is a public forum, and my response is in line with salvation issues, you dont qualify to forbid me friend

 

[Doug Brents]

You understand this is a public forum, and my response is in line with salvation issues, you dont qualify to forbid me friend

Yes, this is a public forum, and I understand that. But your response is in line only with your unScriptural belief, not with Biblical truth. I am not forbidding you anything, just asking that you not clutter this conversation with your false doctrine. Thank you.

 

[Handaan]

I am not yet wanting to get into what essentials might be required.

I wanted first to figure out what makes something one of the essentials.

What did Jesus say the requirement was? I would imagine that would be essential. The first thing that one must do is come to Christ for his salvation, no other person or thing can accomplish it.

Here's one that Jesus said.

“Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. Matthew 10:32

 

[Biblelesson]

I think faith would be a requirement for salvation.

9His disciples began questioning Him as to what this parable meant. 10And He said, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is in parables, so that seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand.

11"Now the parable is this: the seed is the word of God. 12Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.
- Luke 8:9-12

 

[Doug Brents]

What did Jesus say the requirement was? I would imagine that would be essential. The first thing that one must do is come to Christ for his salvation, no other person or thing can accomplish it.

Here's one that Jesus said.

“Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. Matthew 10:32

Ok, let's open it up to specifics then.

Confession of Jesus as our Lord is certainly an essential. It must be public. It must be verbal (via sign language for the mute). And it is a condition for receiving salvation, thus it must be done before we can receive salvation from God.

I think faith would be a requirement for salvation.

9His disciples began questioning Him as to what this parable meant. 10And He said, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is in parables, so that seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand.

11"Now the parable is this: the seed is the word of God. 12Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.
- Luke 8:9-12

Agreed, faith is definitely a salvation issue. Without faith it is impossible to please God. And faith must be demonstrated before salvation can be received.

What else fits this category, according to Scripture?

 

[dwight92070]

In this thread, I would like to explore how we should define the term "salvation issue". This is important in that it will set the foundation for exploring what Scripture says are the salvation issues, but I think we should set this definition first.

I would define it as "something that is an absolute requirement for receiving initial salvation from God."

Certainly there are things (like good works and fruit of the Spirit) that flow out of the life of one who has been saved. But how would you define the term "salvation issue"?

Same song, different day. It's obvious, again, where you're going with this. Back to your talking points or verses: Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, Col. 2:11-12, Romans 6:3-5, Galatians 3:27, John 3:3-8, 1 Corinthians 12:13, Romans 10:9-10 You're beating a dead horse. Water baptism never did save anyone, nor does it now, nor is it a prerequisite for salvation. It must be a constant burden to feed your pet (doctrine) every day. Why not just let it die?

 

[Doug Brents]

Same song, different day. It's obvious, again, where you're going with this. Back to your talking points or verses: Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, Col. 2:11-12, Romans 6:3-5, Galatians 3:27, John 3:3-8, 1 Corinthians 12:13, Romans 10:9-10 You're beating a dead horse. Water baptism never did save anyone, nor does it now, nor is it a prerequisite for salvation. It must be a constant burden to feed your pet (doctrine) every day. Why not just let it die?

Because God called us to seek and save the lost. And teaching a doctrine that does not include belief, repentance, confession of Jesus, and baptism all as leading to receiving salvation (as Scripture clearly says) leaves people condemned to Hell. I cannot sit idly by and let you endanger people's souls with your false doctrine. It is incumbent on those of us who know the truth to preach it even if, like Noah, we convince no one.

 

[brightfame52]

@Doug Brents

Because God called us to seek and save the lost.

So what did God send Jesus for here ? Lk 19:10

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

 

[Doug Brents]

So what did God send Jesus for here ? Lk 19:10

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

Yes, and He transferred that assignment to the Apostles, and they to the rest of the Church (Matt 28:18-20)
"And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. 19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to follow all that I commanded you; and behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”"
All the world is lost, and we, the Church, are to take the Gospel to them and save them through its power (Rom 1:16), and teach them everything that Jesus taught us through the Scriptures.

 

[brightfame52]

Yes, and He transferred that assignment to the Apostles, and they to the rest of the Church (Matt 28:18-20)
"And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. 19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to follow all that I commanded you; and behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”"
All the world is lost, and we, the Church, are to take the Gospel to them and save them through its power (Rom 1:16), and teach them everything that Jesus taught us through the Scriptures.

So when He said it is finished on the Cross, there were still people lost for whom He died ?

 

[dwight92070]

My pastor recently made a statement that applies here: If anybody comes to me attempting to convert me, treating me like I'm their mission field, I know I'm dealing with a heretic, because I am already saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ. Whenever you have someone trying to save true born again Christians, you have a heretic. We're called to save the lost, not the already saved. The already saved need discipling, not salvation. Cults specialize in attempting to save true born again Christians.

So Doug, let me get this straight. I was saved, I was baptized in water about two weeks later, both of which happened 54 years ago. I also confessed Jesus as my Lord, but probably not on the day of my salvation and maybe even not on the day I was baptized in water - sometime later. So because I don't believe I was saved during my baptism in water, but rather about two weeks before that, nor did I confess Jesus as my Lord until some time later, according to you, since what I believed back then was false doctrine, my soul is in danger of going to hell? Is that what you're saying?

 

[Doug Brents]

So when He said it is finished on the Cross, there were still people lost for whom He died ?

Jesus died for everyone in the whole world who has ever, or will ever live, and everyone, excepting only the 120 who were His disciples, was lost when He died. A person is only saved when he hears the Gospel, believes, and obeys the Gospel. Then he receives the gift of salvation.

 

[Doug Brents]

My pastor recently made a statement that applies here: If anybody comes to me attempting to convert me, treating me like I'm their mission field, I know I'm dealing with a heretic, because I am already saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ. Whenever you have someone trying to save true born again Christians, you have a heretic. We're called to save the lost, not the already saved. The already saved need discipling, not salvation. Cults specialize in attempting to save true born again Christians.

Not all who think they are part of the Church are born again. Not all who think they serve God are known by Him. There are many whole churches that have never had God as a part of their fellowship.

So Doug, let me get this straight. I was saved, I was baptized in water about two weeks later, both of which happened 54 years ago.

No, you made the decision to become saved, and then two weeks later you were baptized into Christ and became saved.

I also confessed Jesus as my Lord, but probably not on the day of my salvation and maybe even not on the day I was baptized in water - sometime later.

So you are saying you were not baptized into Christ, confessing your belief in His deity and messiah-ship (the confession upon which the Church is built (Matt 16:16))? If you did make that confession at your baptism, then you were saved during your baptism (but not two weeks before).

So because I don't believe I was saved during my baptism in water, but rather about two weeks before that, nor did I confess Jesus as my Lord until some time later, according to you, since what I believed back then was false doctrine, my soul is in danger of going to hell? Is that what you're saying?

It is against the rules of this forum for me to answer that question honestly, and I will not lie to you.

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus died for everyone in the whole world who has ever, or will ever live, and everyone, excepting only the 120 who were His disciples, was lost when He died. A person is only saved when he hears the Gospel, believes, and obeys the Gospel. Then he receives the gift of salvation.

Jesus came to seek and to save that which was Lost, then He said it was finished. Did He seek and save that which was Lost, yes or no ? Is everyone He seeked after Saved by Him ?

 

[Doug Brents]

Jesus came to seek and to save that which was Lost, then He said it was finished. Did He seek and save that which was Lost, yes or no ? Is everyone He seeked after Saved by Him ?

Jesus did seek that which was lost, but He didn't need to seek far because everyone was lost. And He did create the only way for any of them to be saved: His name and His blood. But there are still the lost among us today. Jesus commissioned His disciples to go and make additional disciples of those who remained lost and to teach them to make even more disciples. We are to seek them, and bring them to Him to be saved. His work was finished, but our work had just begun.

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus did seek that which was lost, but He didn't need to seek far because everyone was lost. And He did create the only way for any of them to be saved: His name and His blood. But there are still the lost among us today. Jesus commissioned His disciples to go and make additional disciples of those who remained lost and to teach them to make even more disciples. We are to seek them, and bring them to Him to be saved. His work was finished, but our work had just begun.

Jesus came to seek and to save that which was Lost, then He said it was finished. Did He seek and save that which was Lost, yes or no ? Is everyone He seeked after Saved by Him ?

 

[brightfame52]

@Doug Brents

Jesus commissioned His disciples to go and make additional disciples

You dont make disciples of dead people, lost people. A disciple:

1. to be a disciple of one
   1. to follow his precepts and instructions
2. to make a disciple
   1. to teach, instruct

You dont teach and instruct spiritually dead people sir, they are alive

 

[dwight92070]

Not all who think they are part of the Church are born again. Not all who think they serve God are known by Him. There are many whole churches that have never had God as a part of their fellowship.

No, you made the decision to become saved, and then two weeks later you were baptized into Christ and became saved.

So you are saying you were not baptized into Christ, confessing your belief in His deity and messiah-ship (the confession upon which the Church is built (Matt 16:16))? If you did make that confession at your baptism, then you were saved during your baptism (but not two weeks before).

It is against the rules of this forum for me to answer that question honestly, and I will not lie to you.

Dwight - It would not be against the rules of this forum for you to tell me that I am securely on my way to heaven. So there's only one other possibility - that is, you think my soul is in danger of hell, even though I have been saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ. It is sin to talk people out of their salvation.

You are essentially doing the same thing that the Judaizers did, only their requirement for salvation, was that a person must be circumcised in order to be saved. Yours is not only water baptism and confessing Jesus is Lord, but also the "proper" belief that your salvation occurred only at your water baptism, not before.

Paul said, "We did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain ..." Galatians 3:5 If I have committed any wrong doing concerning this topic, it is that I have listened to your false teaching much more than an hour. Father, please forgive me.