What Does “Another Gospel” Mean?

[Jim]

Jim, as I said, God alone is immutable, he cannot sin, neither can be tempted to do so. Angels and man are not so~this truth is seen by the creation of both, when left to their "own" power.

OK, I understand that. So what does that have to do with Adam's sinning?

I did not say it caused Adam to sin, I said he did not posses the God's infinite attribute of immutability.

OK again, I understand that also. But what has any of that to do with Adam's sinning?

Jim, you are so wrong ~ first, it is not just available, Jesus Christ secured all we need to have eternal life in the world to come, by himself. This is the difference between the two covenants, the first of works, which we could not keep in the first Adam.... and the second covenant of free grace, which Christ as our surety fulfilled for us perfectly, and we in him.

That is not true. The firs covenant was not salvation by works. It has always been by grace through faith. Abraham was justified because he had faith. Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it (Abraham's faith) was counted unto him for righteousness. It was by faith that Abraham was justified, i.e., Abraham received the gift of eternal life. The law was never intended as a means to eternal life. God wasn't stupid. He knew no one could keep the law perfectly which is the only way that one could receive eternal life.

Jim, the Jesus you preached, only half way provided the possibility of salvation for sinners, the main part is left up to sinners coming to Christ by their so-called power and will, which goes against so much of God's testimony concerning the gospel of His Son.

Yes, and so it is. Your view that God picked you to save and it had nothing to do with you is wrong. That turns God into being worse that the worst tyrant in all of history. How arrogant does one need to be to think that he, above most of everyone else, is God's choice to save?

Jim, what are you talking about? Born with a sinful nature does not equate that that nature is free to choose to obey righteousness, that is impossible according to the scriptures. Born of flesh means just the opposite of what you are saying.

Yes, that is what the sinful nature is. It is the ability to choose to obey God's law or not. Choosing not to obey God's law is lawlessness. Lawlessness is sin. No, that is not impossible. There is not a single sin in your entire life that you had to commit. Every sin you ever committed, you, just like Adam chose, to do so. No, born of flesh does not mean you have to sin. It does not mean that you had no choice but to sin.

Adam was not created with a sinful nature! He was created without a sinful nature, and then left to the power of that nature to obey God, without God assisting him to be obedience. After God created our first parents he saw that it was very good, nothing sinful about God's creation, that's a lie of Satan.

Of course he was created with a sinful nature. He chose to eat that forbidden fruit. His choice. His decision. He chose to disobey God. The only lie in all of this, besides the lie that Satan told Eve, is the lie of Augustine that you are proliferating. And you have decided what "very good" means. You have decided that mankind created with free will means it was not very good. That is wrong. You simply do not understand why God created man different from the animals.

Ecclesiastes 7:29​

“Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.”

Yes, God made man, not just Adam, but the whole of mankind upright. But mankind has looked for all manner of ways to sin.

Jim, you need to rethink your gospel that you have come to embrace, it is against God's testimony, at almost every turn.

Red, you need to reject the Gnosticism that Augustine injected into the gospel message.

 

[Jim]

Jim, for now, I will just add a few more thoughts on this point. I have more than once explained Romans 4:5 along with Galatians 3:6, and other places the phrase is used.

By faith we know ourselves to be sons of God. Faith makes us not sons, but predestination.

Romans 8:29
“For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son.”

And whom did God foreknow? He foreknew those who love God (Rom 8:28). Verses 29 and 30 then describe how those who love God were called.

We were made the sons of God when we were predestinated.

Ephesians 1:5​

“Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,”

Ephesians 1:13

In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

To be sealed with the promised Holy Spirit is to be born again. Faith precedes regeneration.

By being given to Christ, we became sons, and brethren to Christ, (Johnn.17:6; Isaiah 8:18; Hebrews 2:13,etc.) We were given to Christ before Christ died.

Yes, WE didn't even exist before Christ died. God, in His foreknowledge, knew who would hear and believe and He put them on the list, i.e., predestined them, to become the sons of God.

 

[atpollard]

Trying to get men like you to answer those four simple questions ~ that within itself is showing it to be a complicated job.

I liked the questions [but they are not easy to answer ... they require some thought about the implication of the answers].

Q. What is another gospel........

• "Gospel" at its semantic core just means "good news", so "another gospel" would be any alleged "good 'soteriological' news" not centered on JESUS CHRIST [who He is and what He did as the Apostles felt vitally important to preserve for us in the Bible].

Q. Is the gospel preach a source of information concerning how we are born again,

• Yes. That and more, but the 'good news' begins with sharing the missing information that we are ignorant of.
• "How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, "HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!" - [Romans 10:14-15 NASB]

Q. or is it the means thereof?.........

• Yes. Not an "either/or" it is an "and/also". Hearing the 'good news' does not innately save us (anyone), but the 'good news' is more than just mere words ... it is the very TRUTH of GOD. I have lived long enough to discover for myself that "truth" has a special quality all its own that "lies" do not possess. Even when unpleasant, there are moments when you just immediately recognize Truth as Truth.
• "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life." - [John 6:63 NASB]

Q. the gospel, the power of God for whom and why?

• For whom:
  • whoever believes: "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." - [John 3:14-18 NASB]
  • as many as had been appointed to eternal life: "When the Gentiles heard this, they [began] rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed." - [Act 13:48 NASB]
• Why:
  • mouth and heart: But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus [as] Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same [Lord] is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED." - [Rom 10:8-13 NASB]
  • paradoxical wisdom of GOD: For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written, "I WILL DESTROY THE WISDOM OF THE WISE, AND THE CLEVERNESS OF THE CLEVER I WILL SET ASIDE." Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not [come to] know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. For indeed Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness, but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. - [1 Corinthians 1:18-25 NASB]

 

[praise_yeshua]

Yup. (and that is 'nuff said 'bout that ... cause it is all about HIM and not about ME ... Soli Deo Gloria!)

I don't believe you can hear without the Gospel. The Gospel begins everything.

You can glorify God by listening to the Gospel.

When Paul spoke of "have they not heard".....

Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

Paul is referencing how the Gospel has been endlessly shared throughout all of creation. You nor I really know the first time we heard the Gospel. Thusly, you can't exclude the Gospel from your "origins in God" account.

God has been Gracious to us in the narrative of His Son....

Php 1:18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Of course, I have never met someone that has been to North Korea ... but I am pretty sure North Korea still exists.
[I am only saying that "absence of proof is not proof of absence".]

You've heard that North Korea still exists.

Depending upon when you heard this, it might or might not exist. Information travels quickly these days.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Trying to get men like you to answer those four simple questions ~ that within itself is showing it to be a complicated job. What's the problem, why run from this? If not running, you do give every indication that you are by not answering what was put before you. Once more:

I'm not running. Answered your question. Paul was very clear that what he preached was the Gospel of Jesus Christ and all other gospels deserved and required "anathema"

If you want to aske me something specifically about what Paul preached, I will certainly participate.

 

[Red Baker]

I liked the questions [but they are not easy to answer ... they require some thought about the implication of the answers].

Thank you very much for doing your best in answering what was put before you.

If you want to aske me something specifically about what Paul preached, I will certainly participate.

What is another gospel........Is the gospel preach a source of information concerning how we are born again, or is it the means thereof?......... the gospel, the power of God for whom and why?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Thank you very much for doing your best in answering what was put before you.

So you love it when others comply with you?

I gave you an answer that you didn't like. I don't preach my Gospel. I preach the Gospel given to countless others as defined by the Scriptures. If you want to deny the Scriptures. Go for it. You've been doing it ever since you've been here in this forum.

Surely you know what the Scriptures preach.....

1Co 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
1Co 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

 

[Red Baker]

So you love it when others comply with you?

I have no desire for that, God being my witness, but do love it when men humble themselves to the teachings of the scriptures, they help me and others by doing so.

I gave you an answer that you didn't like.

You have provided nothing ~ why deceive yourself?

If you want to deny the Scriptures. Go for it. You've been doing it ever since you've been here in this forum.

I fear the God, I labor to receive and teach His truth.

Surely you know what the Scriptures preach.....

1Co 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
1Co 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Yes, Christ is indeed the power and wisdom of God, to them that are called, to all others, it is pure foolishness.

I will come back after some meetings and answer myself the four questions to show you what we are convinced is the answer to:

What is another gospel........Is the gospel preach a source of information concerning how we are born again, or is it the means thereof?......... the gospel, the power of God for whom and why?

 

[atpollard]

Paul is referencing how the Gospel has been endlessly shared throughout all of creation. You nor I really know the first time we heard the Gospel. Thusly, you can't exclude the Gospel from your "origins in God" account.

For many, it was heard and soundly rejected. Knowing the "pablum" facts that "Jesus loves you" is hardly the TRUE Gospel ... but it is enough to inoculate one from the disease of CHURCH (opiate of the masses). Thus when such childish fantasies as Santa and the Easter Bunny are laid aside, the myth that God loves you (or even gives a damn about anything), are thrown on the same trash heap ... as the WORLD teaches you the lessons of Thomas Hobbes and 'Lord of the Flies'.

 

[praise_yeshua]

For many, it was heard and soundly rejected. Knowing the "pablum" facts that "Jesus loves you" is hardly the TRUE Gospel ... but it is enough to inoculate one from the disease of CHURCH (opiate of the masses). Thus when such childish fantasies as Santa and the Easter Bunny are laid aside, the myth that God loves you (or even gives a damn about anything), are thrown on the same trash heap ... as the WORLD teaches you the lessons of Thomas Hobbes and 'Lord of the Flies'.

Did your family soundly reject it? Mine did not. I've often said that faith is generational. So is unbelief. The faithful among us have carried the message forward throughout history.

You obviously find meaning in the idea that God came looking specifically for you. That is nothing more than a egotistical fantasy. Christ came for all men. We preach the Gospel indiscriminately to all men. That message changes lives..... even when others fail to accept it, the Spirit of Adoption is found in the Gospel. Sons and daughters of the Gospel.

1Co 4:14 I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you.
1Co 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
1Co 4:16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I fear the God, I labor to receive and teach His truth.

You labor for influence.

Yes, Christ is indeed the power and wisdom of God, to them that are called, to all others, it is pure foolishness.

I will come back after some meetings and answer myself the four questions to show you what we are convinced is the answer to:

So you think I believe Jesus Christ is foolishness?

I labor to bring the message of Christ to all men. You're seeking only a few.

I look forward to your response. I'm sure you'll spend significant time to show the value of your words.

1Co 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
1Co 1:28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
1Co 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

It amazes me how men like yourself talk of "election" as being so meaningful to you when God has chosen the foolish things of this world to confound the wise.

You don't really understand what you read. It is play on words that Paul uses. The mighty find God "foolish" but it is the weak that find God valuable. Isn't it interesting that it is the mighty that are always talking about how God has chosen them.

 

[Studyman]

Studyman, it would have been nice for you to give a direct answer to my questions, but you never did, and I now see why after contemplating your posts ~ it came to me, who you are and why you danced around being direct with your presentation of what you consider the true gospel of Jesus Christ, you have no clue as to what it truly is, since you have a corrupt gospel based upon the covenant of works which you secretly seek to promote under the cover of being sincere, living on an island away from false prophets that you were born into sent here by God to testify of the truth, when you are nothing more than a wolf in sheep clothing yourself. I have had battles with you before on two different forums~ Mountain Retreat where your ID was Studyman; on Grace centered were your ID was GB, you're the gentleman from western Michigan. I was RB on grace centered, and Red on mountain Retreat. You the man that refuses to eat meat lover Pizza with peperoni and sausage, since you still cleave to the Jewish dietary laws and the Sabbath day under Moses' law. You are the very men Paul warned the Galatia believers of!

I remember you as well RB. And Yes, I left this world's religious businesses and sects because they mock God and HIS Judgments as if HE were a man inferior to them, and His Judgments unworthy of their honor and respect, like you do here, and they mock those who "Yield themselves" to Him. Neither Jesus, nor Paul ever behaved in this manner, nor did they teach others to mock God, or those who believe Him, in this way.

Paul doesn't warn about men who "Yield themselves" to God and their bodies as instruments of righteousness unto God, in Galatians.

This is truly based upon your pride in your heart thinking it is in your own power of your so-called free will to turn to God. That's another gospel~where God's grace, power have a place of preeminence into your gospel of works? Where does Jesus Christ's redemption work have a place into your work gospel? No where. Man is the center of your gospel, not Christ, not the Spirit of God.

I disagree with you and Kenneth Copland's religious philosophy that God gives men instruction, but not the capability to follow them. It was God who instructed Eve not to eat of a certain tree. It was the Serpent that convinced her God was lying to her.

It was the Jesus "of the Bible" who Quoted His Father's instruction to me on whose Word's to "Live by". It is the same voice through this world's religions trying to convince me that HE is Lying to me.

Truly, there is nothing new under the sun.

Your answer....

???? Not one word about the very question presented to you to answer....you did what you do best, you danced areound quesiton so that you can promote your own gospel of works. You said....Am I not one of the "Others"?.......but didn't "make" others believe Moses.

I answered your question completely. God chose Paul, Moses, the Prophets and Sent His Own Son Jesus, that I and others might hear them, and believe God through the Word's HE gave them. God didn't "make" men believe Paul or Jesus. Just like He doesn't "make men" believe you and Kenneth Copeland. It's a free will choice.

I choose to believe Paul and Jesus. If you would repent and turn to God and stop mocking God as if HIS Words mean nothing, I might listen to you. But you don't.

Yet God did apprehend Paul on the road to Damascus, did he not? Acts 9:1-6 Again, was Paul seeking Christ, or seeking to destroy those who were? Your gospel said that it was up to Paul of his own free will to seek, repent, believe, etc. As though man has a free will toward righteousness and the true fear of God.

Yes, God apprehended a donkey once, to warn Baalam. Will you then worship the Donkey? Create a golden image in the likeness of a donkey? Create high days, birth days and judgments in worship of the Donkey? Reject God's Words, Jesus' Words, and all the Words of the Prophets, and create a religious business called "Donkeyism"? Or should a man simply thank God that HE loved Baalam enough to apprehend a Donkey, that he might take heed and be saved, and that I might believe God through his experience.

Yes, as I said before, God chose Paul for a mission. The Mission was to preach to others, that they might "repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance". But God doesn't "make" men believe those HE Chose to teach us, they must choose to "deny themself" and "Yield themself" and "humble themself" to God as Paul, Moses, James, Jeremiah, Malichi, His Son Jesus, and all the rest of those who God chose to teach us, instructs. I thank God that HE chose Moses, Jeremiah, Paul and Sent His Only Begotten Son, that I might hear them and believe God though them. Why would I reject them, and follow a religion that works so hard to convince people that God is a Liar?

I never said it was up to Paul. Read my posts and then show me one place where I said Paul "chose" himself to be my teacher. And if you can't, then why are you lying about my post?

I am seeking the Christ "of the Bible". God chose Paul through this Christ to teach me. I'm OK with that.

Philippians 3:12​

“Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.”

I think that a man seeking God's Truth, will listen to "ALL" that His Chosen teachers have to say. When a man does this, he can understand the message.

Here, let me show you what Paul actually says.

12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, "if" that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

13 Brethren, I "count not" myself to have apprehended (YET) but this one thing "I do", forgetting those things "which are behind", and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

14 I press toward the mark "for the prize" of the high calling of God (Which is) in Christ Jesus.

15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Notice how the message from Paul completely changes away from your preaching, when a man considers his entire statement. Omitting important parts of God's Inspirited Word is exactly how the serpent deceived Eve. (Did God not say?) Exactly how the "Children of the Devil", the Pharisees, led God's People astray. Paul knows the Law and Prophets, He knows what Jesus and His Father instructed. "Therefore, be ye perfect, even as your Father in Heaven is perfect". Religious men of this world have been preaching that it is not possible for a man to be a "doer" of Christ's Sayings since long before Sodom. And they will cherry pick Paul's words, just as they do God's Word, to convince others of the same thing. But when a man reads what Paul is actually teaching, by considering all of his worlds, the teaching of these religious men who profess to know God, is exposed.

We are warned that there are "many", who come in Christ's Name, that are here for the very purpose of convincing as many people are they can, that Jesus, His Father, and Paul are liars, and don't know what they are talking about. Even something so simple and so basic as "What to eat, and what to drink". And what does the Jesus "of the bible" teach me about these basic everyday things?

Matt. 6: 31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek, for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. 33 But "seek ye first" the kingdom of God, and "his righteousness"; and all these things shall be added unto you.

I choose to Believe Him Red. You choose to believe the other voice. God doesn't "make" you call Him a Jew or mock His Judgments. You do so of your own free will.

It is impossible for men or even angels to obey, much more so, perfectly, if left to themselves, this is proven by the very fact of creation, when Adam and Eve were created after God's image with true holiness, wisdom, knowledge, and understanding and without a sinful nature to hinder them.

Consider how wicked you must think God is. According to your religion, He creates Adam and Eve, who you say HE created knowing full well they didn't have the Capacity to obey Him, but HE gave them a Commandment any way. He placed the devil in the garden with them which, according to your religion, HE knew full they didn't have the capacity to resist, yet, in your religion, He put the devil there anyway. And when they didn't resist, because in your religion God didn't give them the capacity to resist, HE punished them, the entire world and billions and billions of people who weren't even there. But did HE stop giving humans HE created, commandments impossible to obey? NO! Did HE remove the Serpent you preach to the world they couldn't resist, from the world? No! According to your religion, God allowed the serpent to continue deceiving, HE continued to give them commandments impossible to obey, lied to them by telling them they could obey them, and then punished, even slaughtered them by the thousands when they simply did, what you and Kenneth Copeland preaches to the world, God created them to do, which is to transgress His Commandments.

This is without a doubt, one of the most, if not the most evil and wicked religious philosophy and judgment against God ever perpetrated by this world's religious sects and businesses. The Pharisees killed Jesus to preserve their precious religious sect. You guys Kill the message in order to live by, and convince others to live by, your own precious religious traditions.

It is no wonder Jesus said, "Come out of her, My People, that you partake not of her Sins".

The very second God left them to themselves they sinned.

God has never left men. They have pushed Him away, disregarded His Words, rejected His Instruction. But whoever "Yields themselves" to Him from the heart, HE is there for them. He has always been there for them and will always be there for them. He provides escapes for them in every temptation. HE didn't leave Eve to herself. Eve left Him. He gives us all His Armor. But we are tasked with putting it on. He gives us the New Man, which after God in created in Righteousness and true Holiness, but we are tasked with "putting it on".

Noah didn't reject Him. Abraham didn't reject Him, Caleb didn't reject Him. Zacharias didn't reject Him. Even Paul said himself, that "he wasn't disobedient to the Heavenly vision".

There is not one person ever, in the entire Holy Scriptures, that sinned, that didn't push God away first.

This is why God says:

Is. 55: 6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. 8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

Jer. 3: 22 Return, ye backsliding children, and I will heal your backslidings. Behold, we come unto thee; for thou art the LORD our God.

Jer. 4: 1 If thou wilt return, O Israel, saith the LORD, return unto me: and if thou wilt "put away thine abominations" out of my sight, then shalt thou not remove.

Hosea 6: 1 Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.

That's the Old covenant, but thank God for the New Covenant of pure grace, where help was laid upon one that was mighty to save, one that did perfectly obey for all that he was a surety for. A covenant that you know nothing about.

Enough for now.

I know that Jesus said you will not be persuaded to listen to Him.

Luke 16: 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

 

[praise_yeshua]

God has never left men. They have pushed Him away, disregarded His Words, rejected His Instruction. But whoever "Yields themselves" to Him from the heart, HE is there for them. He has always been there for them and will always be there for them. He provides escapes for them in every temptation. HE didn't leave Eve to herself. Eve left Him. He gives us all His Armor. But we are tasked with putting it on. He gives us the New Man, which after God in created in Righteousness and true Holiness, but we are tasked with "putting it on".

Noah didn't reject Him. Abraham didn't reject Him, Caleb didn't reject Him. Zacharias didn't reject Him. Even Paul said himself, that "he wasn't disobedient to the Heavenly vision".

There is not one person ever, in the entire Holy Scriptures, that sinned, that didn't push God away first.

Here is the Arminian argument.....

You seem to believe that God has chosen to deal with everyone in humanity as individuals......

I'd sure love to hear what you have to say about the Scriptures below......

Deu 23:1 He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD.
Deu 23:2 A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.
Deu 23:3 An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the LORD for ever:

What we do..... not only affects US... it affects others.

Eze 33:8 When I say to the sinner, Thou shalt surely die; if thou speak not to warn the wicked from his way, the wicked himself shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

 

[Studyman]

Not to intrude into your discussion with Studyman, but we cannot use the example of Jesus' call to Paul as an example for answering the gospel call. God had a special work for Paul.

This is Biblically True, and yet even Paul "Labored, that he might be accepted of God". And rightly so, given there is more condemnation for the teacher than the student, according to James.

It makes no sense to blame the "sinful nature" as the reason man sins and then say that Adam, who had no sinful nature, sinned. So then, why did Adam sin? And how is that different from us?

The perfect questions. In my understanding Paul shows us the place to go, in order to find the answers.

2 Tim. 3: 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Isn't this "the mark for the prize" of the high calling of God which is in Christ Jesus?

Paul said he had not yet apprehended this "perfection" according to God's definition, as commanded by the Lord's Christ, but he certainly "labored" for it, forgetting what happened yesterday, and striving for the mark today. Sorta like, "I die daily".

And it is not impossible for men and angels to obey. No one, except Jesus, has ever obeyed perfectly, but many have obeyed much. Even one committing only a single sin becomes accountable for the whole law (James 2:10).

That would certainly confirm the importance of the Words of Jesus in Matt. 5: 17, 18. And the sin committed by the Pharisees of "Omitting" the parts of God's Word which didn't align with the philosophies of their religious business.

These are such good points and questions. I really enjoy and appreciate your posts, Jim.

 

[atpollard]

Did your family soundly reject it?

Yes.

Mine did not.

... and that is why you have the luxury of embracing synergysm. [You were never forced to learn the truth.]

 

[praise_yeshua]

Yes.

... and that is why you have the luxury of embracing synergysm. [You were never forced to learn the truth.]

I've argued over these topics for a very long time. You've bought these false teachings (that you received from others).

You're also committing the fallacy of a false dichotomy. Salvation is both Monergistic and Synergistic.

 

[atpollard]

Salvation is both Monergistic and Synergistic.

That is nonsensical and reveals a deliberate ignorance of the definition of the terms. It cannot be "100% of God" and "not 100% of God" at the same time. You can argue "Monergistic" and "Synergistic" do not apply to salvation, but it cannot be both "Monergistic and Synergistic" ... that is like a "Married Bachelor".

 

[atpollard]

You've bought these false teachings (that you received from others).

John 6:44 [per my sig] is where my theology comes from, so those "others" are John and Paul.

 

[Red Baker]

Just like He doesn't "make men" believe you and Kenneth Copeland. It's a free will choice.

You laboring deceitfully attempting to yoke Kenneth Copeland with me of all people, when in actuality he's much more in your camp saying amen, then he would ever desire to be seen supporting someone like me, an "high" Calvinist as men of rellgion would label someone like me.

Do not go any where, I'll be back after I'm finished doing duties that must first be done.