What Does “Another Gospel” Mean?

[Studyman]

Geesh......

What they knew about Messiah had been tainted by the Midrash and Talmud. Vain tradition of their fathers.

So then, in your religion, Zacharias, Simeon, the Wise men and Anna's understanding of the Messiah wasn't from the "Prophets", as is written, or the Spirit of God, that HE gives to men that obey Him, but according to you, their understanding was tainted by the Midrash and Talmud.

Geesh......

How incompetent must you believe God is, who wasn't able to preserve His Truth in the Holy Scriptures Paul said were trustworthy "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

I guess the Spirit on Paul didn't see the Talmud coming. Too bad they didn't have you and Civic there to set them all straight.

And how incompetent you must believe Jesus was, who told men to "live by" these Words, apparently oblivious that they were "tainted" to the point of deceiving all these people.

And so then in your religion, even Jesus must have been tainted, walking in the vain traditions of the fathers, being deceived also by the Midrash and Talmud?

Didn't he teach from the translation called the Septuagint?

27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Didn't Zacharias, Simeon, Anna and the Wise men already know these things because the "Lived by" Word of God being obedient to Him?

Or is this a lie too, in your religion.

The same you repeat yourself.

@civic isn't ignorant of what you claim. You're the issue.

Of course, Moses is the Issue, I am the issue, Moses didn't listen to God, I don't Love Jesus, I don't care about Jesus, I don't love God, I don't please God, Bla, bla, bla.

But you and Civic and Kenneth Copeland, you guys are white as the driven snow.

Thanks for another blessing PY.

 

[praise_yeshua]

So then, in your religion, Zacharias, Simeon, the Wise men and Anna's understanding of the Messiah wasn't from the "Prophets", as is written, or the Spirit of God, that HE gives to men that obey Him, but according to you, their understanding was tainted by the Midrash and Talmud.

I believe I said there were a few. Did I say that or are you just ignoring what I said? There were some Rabbis that taught of Messiah's death. You do realize there are two Messiahs in Judaism.... Right? Maybe you don't.

Geesh......

How incompetent must you believe God is, who wasn't able to preserve His Truth in the Holy Scriptures Paul said were trustworthy "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

False claims on your part. Judiasm has never been "sola scriptura". They live based upon the teachings of their fathers.

Didn't he teach from the translation called the Septuagint?

27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Didn't Zacharias, Simeon, Anna and the Wise men already know these things because the "Lived by" Word of God being obedient to Him?

Or is this a lie too, in your religion.

Pay attention. It certainly was there. They didn't know the Scriptures. They only knew what they were taught. Did you pay attention when the "book" was handed to Jesus? Did you pay attention when Ezra read the law out loud.......

They had a tradition problem. Much like you have today.

Of course, Moses is the Issue, I am the issue, Moses didn't listen to God, I don't Love Jesus, I don't care about Jesus, I don't love God, I don't please God, Bla, bla, bla.

But you and Civic and Kenneth Copeland, you guys are white as the driven snow.

Thanks for another blessing PY.

You've never seen me claim to "good" at any level. I just know you're not either. You're the one actually claiming to be equal with Jesus. Not me.

 

[Studyman]

I didn't ignore them. That is your requirement for your theology. Not a requirement of mine.

If you want me to explain why Jesus said this, then ask.

What Jesus said doesn't raise what Moses said to the level of what Jesus said. Jesus simply told them the truth. They claimed to have trusted Moses.

Joh 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
Joh 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
Joh 5:47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

They didn't trust Jesus like they trusted Moses.

You are missing the whole point of Jesus Words here. They claimed to Trust Moses, but Jesus just told you, that they didn't believe Moses. He said the same thing about them in Matt. 23. Stephen said the same thing about them in Acts 7. Paul said the same things in Rom. 2,3, and 10. They "said" they lived by and promoted the "Law of Moses", but they didn't. Just like men honor Jesus with their mouth, and call Him Lord, Lord, but are not "Doers" of His sayings, because they don't really believe His Words.

Matt. 23: 1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; (For Moses of old time is read every sabbath day) but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. 4 For they (Pharisees, not God) bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

Zacharias, Simeon, Anna, the Wise men, they believed God through His chosen messenger Moses, as shown by their "works", and therefore, they believed in the Christ "before HE was even born". Had the Pharisees "Yielded themselves" to God, like Zacharias, Simeon, Anna and the Wise men did, as Paul instructs, they too would have been filled with the Holy Spirit, (Acts 5:32) and they too, like Simeon, would have known Jesus when HE came to them.

It's right there in your own Bible PY. You just don't believe it.

What evidence do you have from Scriptures that shows us the Pharisees believed what was written in the Law and Prophets, like Zacharias, Simeon and Anna and Jesus and Paul did?

Matt. 23: 23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Mal. 2: 7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts. 8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts. 9 Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law.

So No! The Pharisees didn't trust Moses. Zacharias trusted Moses, Simeon trusted Moses, Anna trusted Moses, Jesus trusted Moses, and instructed others to "do" the same. But the Pharisees only said they trusted Moses, Jesus knew they didn't believe Moses, because if they had believed Moses, they would have believed Jesus. It's right there in your own Bible, all you need is humble yourself and believe Him. And if you can't, then pray to who Jesus said to pray to, for help in your unbelief.

Relative to importance of Jesus.....

Mat 12:6 I tell you that something greater than the temple is here.
Mat 12:7 If you had known what this means: ‘I want mercy and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the innocent.

LOL, and where did Jesus get this quote from PY, that HE quoted to those who were falsely accusing Him and His Disciples of Sin for taking a walk on God's Sabbath and picking a raspberry or ear of corn to munch on along the way?

Hos. 6: 6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and "the knowledge of God" more than burnt offerings. 7 But they like men have transgressed the covenant: there have they dealt treacherously against me.

Do you bring Jesus down to your level of believing one sentence inspired by God, but not another sentence inspired by God? This goes back to my statement that you said you could "dismantle". "If men choose to believe Ecc. 7:19, 20, they should also choose to believe Ecc. 12:12,13", Yes?

Luk 11:31 The queen of the South will rise up at the judgment with the people of this generation and condemn them, because she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon – and now, something greater than Solomon is here!
Luk 11:32 The people of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented when Jonah preached to them – and now, something greater than Jonah is here!

If you really believed Jesus was greater than Solomon or Jonah, you would believe His Words, and you would walk in them.

But by your posts it is clear that you "Say" you trust Jesus, but by your works, it is clear that you don't believe Him. Because if you believed Him, you would be a "Doer" or at least strive to be a "doer" of His Sayings. Instead, you discourage and demean anyone who would "Yield themselves" to obey Him. Saul and the Pharisees did the same thing to men of their time, who repented and turned to God, and away from the mainstream religious sects of the world God placed them in.

Joh 4:12 Surely you’re not greater than our ancestor Jacob, are you? For he gave us this well and drank from it himself, along with his sons and his livestock.”
Joh 4:13 Jesus replied, “Everyone who drinks some of this water will be thirsty again.
Joh 4:14 But whoever drinks some of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again, but the water that I will give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up to eternal life.”

Luke 13: 3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

John 6: 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Matt. 5: 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That "except your righteousness shall exceed" the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall "in no case" enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Which brings us back to my statement/question that you refused to acknowledge.

"If men choose to believe John 4:12-14, shouldn't they also choose to believe Luke 13:3, John 6:53, Matt. 5:17-20?",

Matt. 4: 4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, "but by every word" that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

"If men choose to believe John 4:12-14 and Luke 11: 31,32, shouldn't they also choose to believe Matt. 4:4?",

Mat 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and "not to leave the other undone".

Shall man who believes Matt. 23:8, not also believe Matt. 23:23?

1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, "that observe and do"; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

Shall man who believes Matt. 23:8, not also believe Matt. 23:1-3?

Joh 13:13 Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.

John 17: 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee "the only true God", and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because "I said", I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

"Shall a man that believes John 13:13, which I do, not also believe John 17:3 and John 14:8"?

Luk 10:24 For I tell you, that many prophets and kings have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

Luke 10: 23 And he turned him unto his disciples, and said privately, Blessed are the eyes which see the things that ye see:

24 For I tell you, that many prophets and kings have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them. (But wait, how did the Kings and Prophets know what to desire to see and hear? Through the Talmud?)

25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?

27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: "this do", and thou shalt live.

Therefore, shall a man who believes the Jesus "of the bible's" Words in Luke 10: 24, which I do, not also believe the Words of the Same Christ from Luke 10: 23-28?

This is the difference between religious men who "use" scriptures selectively, and become "partial in the Law", omitting important instruction in righteousness, in order to justify, preserve and promote one or more of the Philosophies of hundreds of differing religious sects and businesses of this world's religious system.

Versus a man who "Lives by" the Word of God, Seeking God's Word for "doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness" necessary "That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works".

What if God is true, and it is your adopted religious philosophy which is the deception. Shouldn't a man at least consider the possibility?

 

[Red Baker]

So then, in your religion, Zacharias, Simeon, the Wise men and Anna's ............................................

Studyman, you travel in a very small area of the word of God, and for all intended purpose, say the same thing over and over again. In "many" of your posts you used a few godly men of faith as the example of who you are and who you are following, and generally close out with Simeon and Anna, as though they belong to your camp, when in truth, you would be speaking against them if they were living in our day! For they trust solely in Jesus Christ as all of God's children do today.

John 8:56​

“Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.”

Luke 2:25-38~"And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him. And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ. And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law, Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said, Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel. And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him. And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against; (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed. And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity; And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day. And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem."

They unlike you, exalted Jesus Christ, as he who would be the person who would secured salvation for God's people. You keep your ungodly teachings of rejecting Jesus Christ as God manifest in the flesh hidden from folks until you are convinced you have them on your side then your proceed with more of your heresies to present to them to accept. You remind me of those Jesús spoke against here:

Matthew 23:27-33~"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?"

 

[Red Baker]

How timely was my post (324) that I must had posted the same time you did above me!

 

[civic]

You are missing the whole point of Jesus Words here. They claimed to Trust Moses, but Jesus just told you, that they didn't believe Moses. He said the same thing about them in Matt. 23. Stephen said the same thing about them in Acts 7. Paul said the same things in Rom. 2,3, and 10. They "said" they lived by and promoted the "Law of Moses", but they didn't. Just like men honor Jesus with their mouth, and call Him Lord, Lord, but are not "Doers" of His sayings, because they don't really believe His Words.

Matt. 23: 1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; (For Moses of old time is read every sabbath day) but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. 4 For they (Pharisees, not God) bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

Zacharias, Simeon, Anna, the Wise men, they believed God through His chosen messenger Moses, as shown by their "works", and therefore, they believed in the Christ "before HE was even born". Had the Pharisees "Yielded themselves" to God, like Zacharias, Simeon, Anna and the Wise men did, as Paul instructs, they too would have been filled with the Holy Spirit, (Acts 5:32) and they too, like Simeon, would have known Jesus when HE came to them.

It's right there in your own Bible PY. You just don't believe it.

What evidence do you have from Scriptures that shows us the Pharisees believed what was written in the Law and Prophets, like Zacharias, Simeon and Anna and Jesus and Paul did?

Matt. 23: 23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Mal. 2: 7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts. 8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts. 9 Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law.

So No! The Pharisees didn't trust Moses. Zacharias trusted Moses, Simeon trusted Moses, Anna trusted Moses, Jesus trusted Moses, and instructed others to "do" the same. But the Pharisees only said they trusted Moses, Jesus knew they didn't believe Moses, because if they had believed Moses, they would have believed Jesus. It's right there in your own Bible, all you need is humble yourself and believe Him. And if you can't, then pray to who Jesus said to pray to, for help in your unbelief.




LOL, and where did Jesus get this quote from PY, that HE quoted to those who were falsely accusing Him and His Disciples of Sin for taking a walk on God's Sabbath and picking a raspberry or ear of corn to munch on along the way?

Hos. 6: 6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and "the knowledge of God" more than burnt offerings. 7 But they like men have transgressed the covenant: there have they dealt treacherously against me.

Do you bring Jesus down to your level of believing one sentence inspired by God, but not another sentence inspired by God? This goes back to my statement that you said you could "dismantle". "If men choose to believe Ecc. 7:19, 20, they should also choose to believe Ecc. 12:12,13", Yes?




If you really believed Jesus was greater than Solomon or Jonah, you would believe His Words, and you would walk in them.

But by your posts it is clear that you "Say" you trust Jesus, but by your works, it is clear that you don't believe Him. Because if you believed Him, you would be a "Doer" or at least strive to be a "doer" of His Sayings. Instead, you discourage and demean anyone who would "Yield themselves" to obey Him. Saul and the Pharisees did the same thing to men of their time, who repented and turned to God, and away from the mainstream religious sects of the world God placed them in.




Luke 13: 3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

John 6: 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Matt. 5: 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That "except your righteousness shall exceed" the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall "in no case" enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Which brings us back to my statement/question that you refused to acknowledge.

"If men choose to believe John 4:12-14, shouldn't they also choose to believe Luke 13:3, John 6:53, Matt. 5:17-20?",

Matt. 4: 4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, "but by every word" that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

"If men choose to believe John 4:12-14 and Luke 11: 31,32, shouldn't they also choose to believe Matt. 4:4?",




23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and "not to leave the other undone".

Shall man who believes Matt. 23:8, not also believe Matt. 23:23?

1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, "that observe and do"; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

Shall man who believes Matt. 23:8, not also believe Matt. 23:1-3?




John 17: 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee "the only true God", and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because "I said", I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

"Shall a man that believes John 13:13, which I do, not also believe John 17:3 and John 14:8"?



Luke 10: 23 And he turned him unto his disciples, and said privately, Blessed are the eyes which see the things that ye see:

24 For I tell you, that many prophets and kings have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them. (But wait, how did the Kings and Prophets know what to desire to see and hear? Through the Talmud?)

25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?

27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: "this do", and thou shalt live.

Therefore, shall a man who believes the Jesus "of the bible's" Words in Luke 10: 24, which I do, not also believe the Words of the Same Christ from Luke 10: 23-28?

This is the difference between religious men who "use" scriptures selectively, and become "partial in the Law", omitting important instruction in righteousness, in order to justify, preserve and promote one or more of the Philosophies of hundreds of differing religious sects and businesses of this world's religious system.

Versus a man who "Lives by" the Word of God, Seeking God's Word for "doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness" necessary "That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works".

What if God is true, and it is your adopted religious philosophy which is the deception. Shouldn't a man at least consider the possibility?

Hebrews 3 below will silence you on Moses and Jesus .

Therefore, holy brothers and sisters, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, whom we acknowledge as our apostle and high priest. 2He was faithful to the one who appointed him, just as Moses was faithful in all God’s house. 3Jesus has been found worthy of greater honor than Moses,just as the builder of a house has greater honor than the house itself.

 

[praise_yeshua]

You are missing the whole point of Jesus Words here. They claimed to Trust Moses, but Jesus just told you, that they didn't believe Moses. He said the same thing about them in Matt. 23. Stephen said the same thing about them in Acts 7. Paul said the same things in Rom. 2,3, and 10. They "said" they lived by and promoted the "Law of Moses", but they didn't. Just like men honor Jesus with their mouth, and call Him Lord, Lord, but are not "Doers" of His sayings, because they don't really believe His Words.

I will say one more thing and we can debate this publicly. I've made you an offer to debate publicly. I make it again. I'm not going to endlessly argue with you on this in this format.

You don't get to define "the whole point" of the words of Jesus. Also. I never once denied that that they didn't believe Moses. I said it was there in the LXX you referenced. You don't believe Moses. You're right there with them. I'll be glad to prove it.

 

[Studyman]

I believe I said there were a few. Did I say that or are you just ignoring what I said? There were some Rabbis that taught of Messiah's death. You do realize there are two Messiahs in Judaism.... Right? Maybe you don't.

Why must you and Red and Civic continue to ignore what I post in your replies to what I post. It's dishonest and frustrating.

Judaism, Calvinism, Arminianism, Catholisism, etc., I don't care about any of the philosophies of these religious sects. Only what is written in the Scriptures. That is what I post, and the questions I ask are based on these words. Who cares about Judaism, whatever your definition of it is.

False claims on your part. Judiasm has never been "sola scriptura". They live based upon the teachings of their fathers.

Again, I don't care about this world's religious sects of businesses. Why do you even bring it up? Why not actually address my post if you are going to reply?

Where is your evidence that Zacharias, Simeon, Anna or the Wise men lived "based in the teaching of their fathers," which I assume is your definition of "Judaism".

Luke 1: 5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost,(Acts 5:32) and prophesied, saying, 68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, 69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70 As "he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets", which have been since the world began:

This is why, as much as I would love to have an honest discussion about Scriptures with you, I have to be guarded and "Take Heed" of preachers like you and Red and Civic. You won't answer questions, you won't acknowledge Scriptures I post, you just continue in a perpetual mode of self-justification. Everything is about how right you are, and how the scriptures you believe in can be trusted.

Pay attention. It certainly was there. They didn't know the Scriptures.

Zacharias did, Simeon did, the Wise men did. Moses was read to people every Sabbath Day. Jesus said to "Do" what the Scriptures said to do as they read Moses. Same as the Disciples did in Acts 15.

Mark 12: 26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?

Luke 3: 4 As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

Paul said: "1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. 3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

Stephen said; 51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. 52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

Jesus said: 19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

So the foundation of the religious philosophy of this world that you are promoting, is founded on the belief "They didn't know the Scriptures".

But when a man actually reads the Scriptures, it clearly states that they "knew" the Scriptures, were given the Scriptures, but didn't believe them.

Rom. 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that "which may be known of God" is manifest in them; "for God hath shewed it unto them". 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so "that they are without excuse": 21 Because that, when they knew God, "they glorified him not as God", neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

This philosophy of yours is founded on the belief that God is unjust, He creates laws impossible to obey, and placed them on the necks of men who trusted Him, then HE lied to them about their capacity to keep them, then slaughtered them by the thousands when they didn't.

With this leaven firmly established in your heart, you have no qualms about preaching to others that God rejected men from entering His Kingdom, because "They didn't know the Scriptures".

They only knew what they were taught. Did you pay attention when the "book" was handed to Jesus? Did you pay attention when Ezra read the law out loud.......

Where was the Book before Jesus Got there? Was it not in the exclusive control of the Pharisees? Did they not read from the book every Sabbath Day? Isn't this how Zacharias, Simeon and Anna knew what the Prophets had prophesied of?

You are wrong about this PY. But it's not about God's Truth to you or Civic or Red. It's about self-justification.

Ninevah repented at the teaching of Jonah. Jesus, who is greater than Jonah is teaching you guys, but you refuse to repent and be corrected. Choosing instead to wrest cherry picked Scriptures, for the purpose of justifying your adopted religion.

No different than what Jesus said about the mainstream preachers of His Time, in the Words I posted, and you ignored.

They had a tradition problem. Much like you have today.

Zacharias, Simeon and Anna, nor Paul, James or Jesus never had a "Tradition" problem. You preach this, like Red and Civic, because you have been deceived into believing that Jesus and Paul and the Faithful walked in "Worthless Jewish Traditions". That God's judgments, Statutes and commandments are "traditions of man, and "rudiments of this world". I try to point out what is actually written concerning these things, for Love of the brethren, so that others might not become infected with this wicked judgment against God. But like Jesus said:

Luke 16: 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

You've never seen me claim to "good" at any level. I just know you're not either. You're the one actually claiming to be equal with Jesus. Not me.

You know this is a flat out lie. You know it is. But God's judgments and commandments were not written for you, in your religion. You can tell lies about me, and your conscience is not even pricked a little. You know I have never "claimed" to be equal to Jesus, Moses, Paul, David etc. You have no evidence at all. Only a bitter and resentful heart. But the spirit in you must lash out against me for asking questions it won't let you answer, for posting scriptures it won't let you acknowledge, for raising points it won't let you discuss.

So what is left for you? You must declare that I don't love God, I don't please God, I don't love Jesus, Jesus means nothing to me, and now you promote to wicked falsehood that I claim to be equal with Jesus.

And for what? For telling you something you know is true. That a man who believes Ecc. 9:20, should also believe Ecc. 12: 13, 14.

And I thank you for the blessing.

 

[Studyman]

Hebrews 3 below will silence you on Moses and Jesus .

Therefore, holy brothers and sisters, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, whom we acknowledge as our apostle and high priest. 2He was faithful to the one who appointed him, just as Moses was faithful in all God’s house. 3Jesus has been found worthy of greater honor than Moses,just as the builder of a house has greater honor than the house itself.

I should hope so. Moses himself said a Prophet would come, and that men should obey Him. You guys, your practice of using one verse to destroy another is wicked, you should stop doing so. Show me one place ever in any of my Posts, where I said, suggested or even implied that Moses was greater than Jesus.

Come on preacher. Show me one place.

Of course you can't, because you know from my posts that I don't believe any such thing. It's a falsehood born out of the spirit in your heart, because I tell you the truth about your religion. Just like the Calvinists get angry with you for telling them about the false preaching in theirs.

Jesus said it is a blessing to have you make stuff up about me that isn't true, because I trust "all" of His Words, and not yours.

Thanks for the blessing.

 

[Studyman]

I will say one more thing and we can debate this publicly. I've made you an offer to debate publicly. I make it again. I'm not going to endlessly argue with you on this in this format.

No you won't. I can't count the times you "said" you would "do" something, then didn't. It is not possible to debate you about Scriptures, because you are here to promote yourself, justify yourself, preserve your religious philosophy. This is why you refuse to answer my questions even in the post you are now replying to.

You don't get to define "the whole point" of the words of Jesus. Also. I never once denied that that they didn't believe Moses. I said it was there in the LXX you referenced. You don't believe Moses. You're right there with them. I'll be glad to prove it.

Lol, so let's see, according to the great preacher PY, I don't love God, I don't love Jesus, I don't obey God, I don't care about Jesus, I don't please God, I claim to be equal with Jesus, and now I don't believe Moses.

And all because I tell you something that is true. "That a man who believes Ecc. 9:20, should also believe Ecc. 12: 13, 14."

In closing, what if Jesus and His Father and the Prophets, and the Apostles, whose Words I post, but you ignore, are right, and it is you who are deceived?

Shouldn't a man consider such things?

 

[civic]

I should hope so. Moses himself said a Prophet would come, and that men should obey Him. You guys, your practice of using one verse to destroy another is wicked, you should stop doing so. Show me one place ever in any of my Posts, where I said, suggested or even implied that Moses was greater than Jesus.

Come on preacher. Show me one place.

Of course you can't, because you know from my posts that I don't believe any such thing. It's a falsehood born out of the spirit in your heart, because I tell you the truth about your religion. Just like the Calvinists get angry with you for telling them about the false preaching in theirs.

Jesus said it is a blessing to have you make stuff up about me that isn't true, because I trust "all" of His Words, and not yours.

Thanks for the blessing.

The wickedness is denying the glory that belongs to the Son which you rob Him of with your rejection of His glory, honor, praise, power that is equally shared with the Father.

 

[Red Baker]

The wickedness is denying the glory that belongs to the Son which "you" rob Him of with your rejection of His glory, honor, praise, power that is equally shared with the Father.

Studyman, this is another chance given to you to prove that the "Jesus of the Bible" as you call him, (not me, not ever) is indeed the true God and eternal life~what are you going to do?

You keep talking about folks not answering you, which I have, except for the one post, which I was in the process of doing, until you went into your daily ranting spell of repeating the same words over and over again, which only proves your lack of Bible knowledge of the doctrines taught therein, but, that's your m o. Once I read a couple of your post in this thread, I knew at once who I was dealing with from days gone by.
.

 

[praise_yeshua]

No you won't. I can't count the times you "said" you would "do" something, then didn't. It is not possible to debate you about Scriptures, because you are here to promote yourself, justify yourself, preserve your religious philosophy. This is why you refuse to answer my questions even in the post you are now replying to.



Lol, so let's see, according to the great preacher PY, I don't love God, I don't love Jesus, I don't obey God, I don't care about Jesus, I don't please God, I claim to be equal with Jesus, and now I don't believe Moses.

And all because I tell you something that is true. "That a man who believes Ecc. 9:20, should also believe Ecc. 12: 13, 14."

In closing, what if Jesus and His Father and the Prophets, and the Apostles, whose Words I post, but you ignore, are right, and it is you who are deceived?

Shouldn't a man consider such things?

I try to go "line by line" and "precept by precept" with you but you turn just a few words in response into seemingly endless rants.

I know you're unlearned. A novice. You're trying to hide this fact with your "rants".

You said you don't care about philosophy and various beliefs.... I can tell. You obviously don't know them. If you're going to debate God, you must meet men where they are. You must know what they believe.

I'll give a quick example here......

Mat 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Jesus silenced the Sadducees with these words.....

Mat 22:34 But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.

They knew Exodus 3:6.... they had heard Exodus 3:6 their entire lives.

Exo 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

What they didn't have was the ability to reason apart from what they were taught or what they had already concluded themselves were true without question. Much like you have already done here.

Philosophy is reason. It is how we view all things around us. There is nothing wrong with reason. Nothing. There are bad philosophies and there are good philosophies.

Which is WHY it is impossible to be entirely Sola Scriptura. Everyone has a philosophy. You have one yourself. It is wrong but you certainly have one.



Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD:......

 

[Red Baker]

Continuation from # 303......

Hebrews 7:12​

“For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.”


There is made of necessity a change also of the law; which we know cannot mean the moral law which is summed up in Ten Commandments, that was in being before the priesthood of Aaron, nor do they stand and fall together; besides, this still remains, for it is perfect, and cannot be made void by any other; nor is it set aside by Christ's priesthood: though it is very true there is a sense in which it is abolished; as it is in the hands of Moses; as it is a covenant of works; as to justification by it; and as to its curse and condemnation to them that are Christ's; yet it still remains in the hands of Christ, and as a rule of walk and conversation; and is useful, and continues so on many accounts: but either the judicial law; not that part of it which is founded on justice and equity, and was a means of guarding the moral law, for that still subsists; but that which was given to the Jews as Jews, and some parts of which depended on the priesthood, and so ceased with it; as the laws concerning the cities of refuge, raising up seed to a deceased brother, preserving inheritances in families, and judging, and their dietary laws, (proven by Acts 10) and determining controversies: or rather the ceremonial law, which was but a shadow of good things to come, and was given but for a time; and this concerned the priesthood, and was made void by the priesthood of Christ; for that putting an end to the Levitical priesthood, the law which related to it must unavoidably cease, and become of no effect.

If this is not so, then someone please give your understanding what this means: "there is made of necessity a change also of the law"

 

[Studyman]

The wickedness is denying the glory that belongs to the Son which you rob Him of with your rejection of His glory, honor, praise, power that is equally shared with the Father.

First you lie about me saying or implying that I promote that Moses is greater than Jesus. I asked for any evidence, a statement from me, anything to support your accusations. But you can't find anything, and this is because you are lying. You know you are lying, but you don't care. And you will continue lying, even after it is shown that you already know, as your reply clearly shows. Now you are lying again to everyone on this forum, that I reject Christ's Glory. That I rob Him of His Glory. Which is of course, another lie.

And why is your heart so filled with the spirit of the father of lies Civic? Because I posted Christ's OWN Words about how HE regarded Moses? Because I posted God's Word through His chosen Messengers, like Moses and the Prophets, Words Jesus said to "Live by"? Imagine that Civic. You, who have "transformed yourself" into an apostle of Christ, LIE about me, simply for posting HIS WORDS, and the Words HE SAID to "Live by".

I don't really care that you make up all these lies about me simply because I believe "ALL" that is written. It's fascinating to me that you would do such a thing to a nobody like me simply for posting and believing HIS Words. I'm humbled and honored, Jesus said it is a blessing to me.

For you???? Not so much. I hope you might consider these things in the quiet confines of your private times. And then turn away from this world's religious system, their image of God in the likeness of man, their high days which empower and creates untold wealth for the merchants of the earth. Their judgments which make a mockery of God and His Word. You will suffer a great loss, like Paul did. But what remains may be worth saving as it is written, if we are "diligent that we may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless."

 

[civic]

First you lie about me saying or implying that I promote that Moses is greater than Jesus. I asked for any evidence, a statement from me, anything to support your accusations. But you can't find anything, and this is because you are lying. You know you are lying, but you don't care. And you will continue lying, even after it is shown that you already know, as your reply clearly shows. Now you are lying again to everyone on this forum, that I reject Christ's Glory. That I rob Him of His Glory. Which is of course, another lie.

And why is your heart so filled with the spirit of the father of lies Civic? Because I posted Christ's OWN Words about how HE regarded Moses? Because I posted God's Word through His chosen Messengers, like Moses and the Prophets, Words Jesus said to "Live by"? Imagine that Civic. You, who have "transformed yourself" into an apostle of Christ, LIE about me, simply for posting HIS WORDS, and the Words HE SAID to "Live by".

I don't really care that you make up all these lies about me simply because I believe "ALL" that is written. It's fascinating to me that you would do such a thing to a nobody like me simply for posting and believing HIS Words. I'm humbled and honored, Jesus said it is a blessing to me.

For you???? Not so much. I hope you might consider these things in the quiet confines of your private times. And then turn away from this world's religious system, their image of God in the likeness of man, their high days which empower and creates untold wealth for the merchants of the earth. Their judgments which make a mockery of God and His Word. You will suffer a great loss, like Paul did. But what remains may be worth saving as it is written, if we are "diligent that we may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless."

the fact is you deny the Son since you value the Father more. This is true of all unitarians across the board. Otherwise you would be a trinitarian giving equality to the Son as all trinitarians do in practice. We worship the Son, you do not. You do not bow, lay prostrate before the Son in your prayers,worship. You do not pray to the Son and the Apostles did and He is not your Lord ( YHWH ) but is your lord lowercase. Its all lip service. You serve a false christ who is only a man. This is the truth.

hope this helps !!!

 

[praise_yeshua]

diligent that we may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless."

So you actually believe you're "without spot and blameless"

 

[Studyman]

The Jesus "of the Bible" ~ is he the mighty God according to your understanding of the bible?

The Jesus "of the bible," according to HIS OWN Words, was "sent by almighty God".

John 17: 1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, (One True God) the hour is come; glorify thy Son,(The Lord's Christ) that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou (One True God) hast given "him" (The Lord's Christ) power over all flesh, that he (The Lord's Christ)) should give eternal life to as many as thou (One True God) hast given him. (The Lord's Christ)

3 And this is life eternal, (According to the Lord's Christ) that they (Men of this world) might know "thee" "the only true God", "and" Jesus Christ, whom thou (One True God) hast sent.

Why is it so important to the Jesus "of the bible" that we "Know His Father, the One True God"? Let's let Jesus Himself tell us, and not religious men who have "transformed themselves" into apostles of Christ, given we have the Holy Scriptures in our own home.

John 6: 44 No man can come to me (Lord's Christ), except the Father (One True God) "which hath sent me" (Lord's Christ) draw him: and I (Lord's Christ) will raise him up at the last day. (With the Power HE received from His Father, the One True God)

45 It is written in the prophets, And "they shall be all taught of God". "Every man" therefore that hath heard, and hath learned "of the Father", (One True God) cometh "unto me". (The Lord's Christ)

There are volumes more Words from the Lord's Christ "of the Bible", and from God's Messengers, Moses and the Prophets, which teach me that the Jesus "of the bible" was sent by, and is the only begotten Son, who received ALL of His Power from, and was given a Name above all others by, HIS Father, the One True God.

Can you walk just as he walked in the days of his flesh?

He said to strive for this Path of perfection, just as HIS Father, the One True God, instructed Abraham.

Gen. 17: 1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

Lev. 11: 45 For I am the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.

Am I already perfect? No sir, "but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God "in" Christ Jesus."

Can I do these things? Certainly I can't, if I live by this world's religious philosophy that you are here to promote.

But God, seeing you coming Red, had a story written for my admonition, that exposes who you are. Let me show it to you, in the hopes that you might humble yourself, and repent.

Numbers 13: 26 And they went and came to Moses, and to Aaron, and to all the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the wilderness of Paran, to Kadesh; and brought back word unto them, and unto all the congregation, and shewed them the fruit of the land. 27 And they told him, and said, We came unto the land whither thou sentest us, and surely it floweth with milk and honey; and this is the fruit of it. 28 Nevertheless the people (Philosophy) be strong that dwell in the land, and the cities are walled, and very great: and moreover we saw the children of Anak there. 29 The Amalekites dwell in the land of the south: and the Hittites, and the Jebusites, and the Amorites, dwell in the mountains: and the Canaanites dwell by the sea, and by the coast of Jordan. 30 And Caleb stilled the people before Moses, and said, Let us go up at once, and possess it; "for we are well able to overcome it". 31 But the men that went up with him said, We be not able to go up against the people; "for they are stronger than we". 32 And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature. 33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.

Jesus and His Father said to "be Perfect, as God is perfect", and Be Holy as God is Holy". This is the Land that brings forth the good fruit, a land flowing with milk and honey. And you are the man who discourages anyone who says, "Let us go up at once, and possess it; "for we are well able to overcome it", as your entire philosophy is founded on the preaching that "We be not able to go up against the people; (Our Flesh) "for they are stronger than we". (It's impossible to obey God's instruction)

Num. 14: 6 And Joshua the son of Nun, and Caleb the son of Jephunneh, which were of them that searched the land, rent their clothes: 7 And they spake unto all the company of the children of Israel, saying, The land, (Perfection, Holiness) which we passed through to search it, is an exceeding good land. 8 If the LORD delight in us, then he will bring us into this land, "and give it us"; a land which floweth with milk and honey. 9 Only rebel not ye against the LORD, neither fear ye the people of the land; (Red, Civic, PY, Kenneth Copeland, etc.) for they are bread (blessings) for us: "their defence" is departed from them, and the LORD is with us: "fear them not". 10 But all the congregation bade stone them with stones. And the glory of the LORD appeared in the tabernacle of the congregation before all the children of Israel.

Can I walk even as Jesus walked as instructed, even though you are other promoters of this world's religious system preach to the world that it is impossible, that the enemies I face are too strong for me, that God's Armor in insufficient to help be resist your preaching?

I believe I can, and like Paul, "I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God "in" Christ Jesus."

I fully expect that religious men like you, who call Jesus Lord, Lord, will ridicule me for my Faith.

Did Jesus "of the the Bible" secure eternal life for those given to him to do so?

Yes, but only those who are "Learned of the Father". At least this is what the Jesus "of the bible" teaches.

Simple questions deserve a simple answer. Your answers (and I know them already from dialoguing with you over the years) may have changed over the years and you have gotten converting on some of your corrupt teachings.

I'm sure the children, "in whom was no Faith", in Caleb and Joshua's time, considered his Faith and belief a corrupt teaching as well.

 

[Studyman]

So you actually believe you're "without spot and blameless"

You need to read Peter's words that I posted again.

 

[praise_yeshua]

You need to read Peter's words that I posted again.

It was a short read. I remember it.

I'll ask you again. Do you believe that you're "without spot and blameless". Simple question. No rants this time... We are getting somewhere....