Use of the word Persons in discussing the Trinity

civic

Well-known member
This is from @360watt from our old forum. @TheLayman and @charismaticlady were having a discussion on the topic over there.

Using persons is the main way we describe the Trinity.

In my mind though..that looks like 'seperate beings '

I know the Father Son and Holy Spirit are DISTINCT.. but actually seperate and to me..that's Polytheism.

So I am not a fan of the word persons and prefer persona or expression/substance.

The problem with this I know is that when Jesus talks with the Father...that's not just an essence taking to an essence.. but the word 'persons' doesnt really cut it for me.
 
Post by thelayman on Sep 23, 2023 at 6:07pm




charismaticlady Avatar

Jul 17, 2023 at 6:16pm charismaticlady said:
360watt Avatar

Jul 17, 2023 at 5:56pm 360watt said:
Using persons is the main way we describe the Trinity.

In my mind though..that looks like 'seperate beings '

I know the Father Son and Holy Spirit are DISTINCT.. but actually seperate and to me..that's Polytheism.

So I am not a fan of the word persons and prefer persona or expression/substance.

The problem with this I know is that when Jesus talks with the Father...that's not just an essence taking to an essence.. but the word 'persons' doesnt really cut it for me.


Charismatic lady said:

The church Father Tertullian in the 200's AD is called the Father of the Trinity. In other words, he created the word, Trinity. But he uses the word, substances, not persons.

Look at yourself. You are created in the image of God. 1 Thes. 5:23 describes you. (spirit, soul and body). You are not three persons. You are one human being.

Now concerning sin, of those three parts of you, your spirit and soul - mind and conscience - make up your nature. When you were in the flesh Romans 7:5-6, you had a sin nature. But when we are born again of the Spirit our spirit and soul are crucified and resurrected and we are freed from sin, Romans 6:5-22. The only part left is our body. But it doesn't make us sin. It is like a puppet that is controlled by our mind and conscience. It will die still and be recreated after we die.

TheLayman said:

Hello, I'm afraid that isn't accurate. Tertullian said, "una substantia tres personae," which is one substance and three persona, or even more accurately one substance, three persons. To have said "three substances" would have meant "three beings," i.e. polythiesm.
 
Post by thelayman on Sep 23, 2023 at 6:07pm




charismaticlady Avatar

Jul 17, 2023 at 6:16pm charismaticlady said:
360watt Avatar

Jul 17, 2023 at 5:56pm 360watt said:
Using persons is the main way we describe the Trinity.

In my mind though..that looks like 'seperate beings '

I know the Father Son and Holy Spirit are DISTINCT.. but actually seperate and to me..that's Polytheism.

So I am not a fan of the word persons and prefer persona or expression/substance.

The problem with this I know is that when Jesus talks with the Father...that's not just an essence taking to an essence.. but the word 'persons' doesnt really cut it for me.


Charismatic lady said:

The church Father Tertullian in the 200's AD is called the Father of the Trinity. In other words, he created the word, Trinity. But he uses the word, substances, not persons.

Look at yourself. You are created in the image of God. 1 Thes. 5:23 describes you. (spirit, soul and body). You are not three persons. You are one human being.

Now concerning sin, of those three parts of you, your spirit and soul - mind and conscience - make up your nature. When you were in the flesh Romans 7:5-6, you had a sin nature. But when we are born again of the Spirit our spirit and soul are crucified and resurrected and we are freed from sin, Romans 6:5-22. The only part left is our body. But it doesn't make us sin. It is like a puppet that is controlled by our mind and conscience. It will die still and be recreated after we die.

TheLayman said:

Hello, I'm afraid that isn't accurate. Tertullian said, "una substantia tres personae," which is one substance and three persona, or even more accurately one substance, three persons. To have said "three substances" would have meant "three beings," i.e. polythiesm.
civic, I wrote later that I was wrong about Tertullian. I shouldn't depend on my memory. LOL
 
The problem with this I know is that when Jesus talks with the Father...that's not just an essence taking to an essence.. but the word 'persons' doesnt really cut it for me.
Hmmm...interesting. So how do you resolve this issue Civic. I'm sure we agree that when Jesus talked (prayed) to the Father the Father talked back to him. Cannot persons still be one? In the physical Adam and Eve were still two persons but were called ONE.

Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. Gen 2:24

So Adam and Eve were still two persons yet ONE. Couldn't this be a type of how the Father/Son/Holy Spirit can be three persons yet One but in a spiritual sense we can't understand?
 
Hmmm...interesting. So how do you resolve this issue Civic. I'm sure we agree that when Jesus talked (prayed) to the Father the Father talked back to him. Cannot persons still be one? In the physical Adam and Eve were still two persons but were called ONE.

Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. Gen 2:24

So Adam and Eve were still two persons yet ONE. Couldn't this be a type of how the Father/Son/Holy Spirit can be three persons yet One but in a spiritual sense we can't understand?
That was confusing as it was not my words. Let me find the original with a link from the old forum. Ok just found it here. I cut n pasted it on the new forum but I can see how it looks confusing like I was saying that lol.

 
That was confusing as it was not my words. Let me find the original with a link from the old forum. Ok just found it here. I cut n pasted it on the new forum but I can see how it looks confusing like I was saying that lol.

Oh sorry about misunderstanding that.
 
I know the Father Son and Holy Spirit are DISTINCT.. but actually seperate and to me..that's Polytheism.

So I am not a fan of the word persons and prefer persona or expression/substance.
addressing the OP only and haven't read all posts. a correct deduction. but one mistake. not in persona or expression/substance, but in "NATURE"/FORM. and no, not two separates' "Spirits", but ONE Spirit "Shared". example by Scripture, Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."
that term "WITH" seems like two persons.... correct, no, it's the same one person, Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." Also indicate something, or someone else. so, what's the "ALSO" is indicating? person? no, but a NATURE, yes, a, a, a, NATURES that is Equally Shared. supportive scripture, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"
ok, if the Lord Jesus is in the "FORM" of God, and Form here is "NATURE",
FORM: G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee') n.
1. form.
2. (intrinsically) fundamental nature.
[perhaps from the base of G3313 (through the idea of adjustment of parts)]
KJV: form
Root(s): G3313

and we KNOW the NATURE of God is "Spirit", per John 4:24a. but the Million dollar question what kind of NATURE? the same nature, that is .... as the scriptures says, "EQUAL" ...... WITH", that is the addition too, but how in addition too. the answer is in the term "FORM/NATURE", for it is the ROOT of G3313 Good so what do G3313 states?
G3313 μέρος meros (me'-ros) n.
1. a portion (i.e. an amount allotted, a part of something).
what is ANOTHER word that is synonyms with "portion?" answer, "SHARE", the Lord Jesus nature is the EQUAL SHARE of God in "Spirit"/NATURE, now, DWELLING in his OWN IMAGE MAN THAT WAS TO COME FROM GENESIS 1:26 POINT OF VIEW.

why not the EQUAL SHARE in PERSON which would support the trinity. here's why. Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me." and that "ARM" of God is expressed in Isaiah 53, as the Who is GOD in Flesh that SAVE us. which answer the Zechariah 12:10 scripture, the "And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn." which answer the Zechariah 13:7 scripture, "Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones." which answer the Genesis 49:10 scripture, "The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be."

and ON, and ON, and On, through-out the Old TESTAMENT. the coming of God, the Messiah. it's just amazing how God word is REVEALED in the OT.

101G.
 
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